Zambrano says he is retiring

[SouthSideRyan]

And why does it matter that they're "small-market?" It's not baseball.

[tfarks]

Bird has been in the front office since 92'. Now he's the GM and has been for a while. Donnie Walsh is still the owner's best friend and consults with him. They had a very well regarded scouting team there because of how long they have been there. Yknow, since the 90's.

 

Again, I'm not getting into great - don't care. If you wanna say okay, that's cool. But not being able to beat Jordan makes the front office dumb? Great logic there. And who cares if you're unimpressed? It was impressive what they did, no matter how you may feel.

 

And of course the small market matters even though its not baseball. Free agents don't flock to Indy. What big free agent have they ever signed? And the owner certainly doesn't bring in the same amount of revenue, he can't blow away the luxury tax like the Lakers. Yeah, no big deal the small market teams can't pay an extra 20 million like the big market teams can and get players to come live on the beach. No matter.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bird has been in the front office since 92'. Now he's the GM and has been for a while. Donnie Walsh is still the owner's best friend and consults with him. They had a very well regarded scouting team there because of how long they have been there. Yknow, since the 90's.

 

Again, I'm not getting into great - don't care. If you wanna say okay, that's cool. But not being able to beat Jordan makes the front office dumb? Great logic there. And who cares if you're unimpressed? It was impressive what they did, no matter how you may feel.

 

And of course the small market matters even though its not baseball. Free agents don't flock to Indy. What big free agent have they ever signed? And the owner certainly doesn't bring in the same amount of revenue, he can't blow away the luxury tax like the Lakers. Yeah, no big deal the small market teams can't pay an extra 20 million like the big market teams can and get players to come live on the beach. No matter.

 

This is a much bigger issue now than it was during the great 2nd round dynasty of the 90s Pacers.

[tfarks]

Ok? Still impressive. Very impressive. You can try and mock great all you want. I never said they were a dynasty. Said they knew how to build a great team. Not that their franchise has been wildly successful.

 

It's certainly more impressive to me than a team getting lucky and drafting Derrick Rose. Or paying out for Lebron James.

 

They built a great team because of how they brought in role players who played well together. Take anyone off that Pacers team that got to the Finals and they're nothing special leading their own team, even Reggie. To me that's building a great team.

[jersey cubs fan]

Hey, cool story. The Pacers suck and that says absolutely nothing about how keeping Zambrano could conceivably cause the Cubs to suffer a net decline in revenue.

[tfarks]

Hey, cool story. The Pacers suck and that says absolutely nothing about how keeping Zambrano could conceivably cause the Cubs to suffer a net decline in revenue.

 

Hey, cool. The guy that calls a bunch of people racist rednecks thinks his opinion matters.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Still, there's absolutely nothing about the Pacers that applies here so can we stop this boring tangent?

[Shilzzz]

hey cool falling into the same trap one is defending oneself against as if it weren't the case

[tfarks]

hey cool falling into the same trap one is defending oneself against as if it weren't the case

 

I live in downtown Indy and I run into absolutely zero racist rednecks. Been to Conseco Fieldhouse many times - never talked to any. It's dumb and naive to say the fans of Indy stopped supporting their team because they're racist rednecks. There's no basis to it other than the ignorant view of an entire state. People who say dumb things can be corrected once in a while, it won't hurt them. Moving on.

[UMFan83]

Lucking into Rose > Sucking into Peyton

[jersey cubs fan]

hey cool falling into the same trap one is defending oneself against as if it weren't the case

 

I live in downtown Indy and I run into absolutely zero racist rednecks. Been to Conseco Fieldhouse many times - never talked to any. It's dumb and naive to say the fans of Indy stopped supporting their team because they're racist rednecks. There's no basis to it other than the ignorant view of an entire state. People who say dumb things can be corrected once in a while, it won't hurt them. Moving on.

 

Hey, go back and read.

 

I said the fans left because the team has sucked for a while. Somebody else claimed it was because of personality. I said that whoever used the excuse of "bad guys" for leaving the team as opposed to the fact that they stopped winning is just throwing out a convenient excuse while hiding their racist tendencies.

 

I run into racist rednecks in New York city on a regular basis, how in the hell can you possibly claim you've never seen any in Indy?

[SouthSideRyan]

A lot of people gave up on the NBA in the early 2000s. Why did those other fans give up if they didn't have to suffer through the irreparable horror of watching Ron Artest get angry in their team's laundry?

[Tarver]

Getting along with teammates is secondary. If you're continually insubordinate to management, if you're on probation and violate it, you'll be canned, at Hardees or wherever.

 

But should the Cubs only hurt themselves by outright releasing Z or trading him without any real compensation? If they cut Z, they have to eat the entire $18 million and Z gets his entire paycheck. You're not hurting Z in any way by cutting him - on the contrary, you're giving him the opportunity to make even more money by cashing his check from the Cubs and going out to look for more work.

 

In cutting Z, the only party that's hurt is the Cubs because they have no extra payroll space but have a new hole in the rotation to be filled. The only smart business decision for the Cubs at this point is to keep Z and let him pitch, unless they can find a way out of a decent portion of his contract.

 

Working a trade for another [expletive] contract or getting as much relief as possible on the remaining deal is the best we can expect at this point. There's just no way he's coming back, unless the new FO rolls the dice on him again, which I doubt.

 

It might make sense to some of us to keep him, but we don't have to deal with his BS everyday. The team wouldn't have pushed this as far as they have if they thought things could be reconciled.

[tfarks]

hey cool falling into the same trap one is defending oneself against as if it weren't the case

 

I live in downtown Indy and I run into absolutely zero racist rednecks. Been to Conseco Fieldhouse many times - never talked to any. It's dumb and naive to say the fans of Indy stopped supporting their team because they're racist rednecks. There's no basis to it other than the ignorant view of an entire state. People who say dumb things can be corrected once in a while, it won't hurt them. Moving on.

 

Hey, go back and read.

 

I said the fans left because the team has sucked for a while. Somebody else claimed it was because of personality. I said that whoever used the excuse of "bad guys" for leaving the team as opposed to the fact that they stopped winning is just throwing out a convenient excuse while hiding their racist tendencies.

 

I run into racist rednecks in New York city on a regular basis, how in the hell can you possibly claim you've never seen any in Indy?

 

They didn't want to follow a team that ruined Reggie Miller's last year and his shot at a championship. They're hiding their racist tendencies by wanting their black franchise player to finally get a ring? No, it was a combination of disliking the players the represent the city and them losing games. It's not either or. They could have kept everybody and made the playoffs again the next season, but no one in Indy wanted to see that - and racism had little to do with it. Shooting up strip clubs does not endear you to many people.

 

And as far as racist rednecks, I just haven't. I did when I went to college in the country in northern Indiana. Maybe your definition of a racist redneck is somehow different than mine? Maybe I'm bad at getting them to bring their racist redneck tendencies out. But when it comes to being in the city no, I don't see it.

[tfarks]

Lucking into Rose > Sucking into Peyton

 

I disagree. The Colts could have easily picked Ryan Leaf over Peyton there. The Bulls had their selection made for them - like most NBA drafts.

[Vanilla Ice]

Lucking into Rose > Sucking into Peyton

 

I disagree. The Colts could have easily picked Ryan Leaf over Peyton there. The Bulls had their selection made for them - like most NBA drafts.

They could have easily taken Michael Beasley

[WrigleyField 22]

If Hardee's had a burger flipper making 18M, I'm guessing they'd look to make amends.

Touche.

[WrigleyField 22]

Lucking into Rose > Sucking into Peyton

 

I disagree. The Colts could have easily picked Ryan Leaf over Peyton there. The Bulls had their selection made for them - like most NBA drafts.

Well this is getting off topic, but thats just not true. That draft was a 50/50 split over who to pick amongst most people (media and teams included). You're re-writing history.

[tfarks]

Lucking into Rose > Sucking into Peyton

 

I disagree. The Colts could have easily picked Ryan Leaf over Peyton there. The Bulls had their selection made for them - like most NBA drafts.

They could have easily taken Michael Beasley

 

Actually yeah, I forgot about that.

 

Still, Peyton wins.

[CyHawk_Cub]

Who gives a [expletive] about the Pacers?

 

And if the organization is so worried about public perception, they'd better throw Hendry & Quade out on their asses as well instead of scapegoating a player for a mostly horrible season.

[CubColtPacer]

Who gives a [expletive] about the Pacers?

 

And if the organization is so worried about public perception, they'd better throw Hendry & Quade out on their asses as well instead of scapegoating a player for a mostly horrible season.

 

I would bet that if you had a who would you want to leave first poll between those 3 Z would win for better or for worse. Personally, I hope that they mend fences but I can understand why they might want to trade him for the business reasons I mentioned.

 

As for the Pacers, it was just an example of how fans can be turned off when things go too far. Of course, the Pacers situation was a lot worse than anything that has ever happened with Z as well. The Pacers were getting into legal trouble left and right while Z's questionable decisions haven't really hurt anyone.

[SouthSideRyan]

Who gives a [expletive] about the Pacers?

 

And if the organization is so worried about public perception, they'd better throw Hendry & Quade out on their asses as well instead of scapegoating a player for a mostly horrible season.

 

I would bet that if you had a who would you want to leave first poll between those 3 Z would win for better or for worse.

 

Right now maybe, but the mind of a meatball can only think clearly for so long. Take that poll on October 1st, and I'm guessing Hendry and Quade run away with it.

[jersey cubs fan]

Who gives a [expletive] about the Pacers?

 

And if the organization is so worried about public perception, they'd better throw Hendry & Quade out on their asses as well instead of scapegoating a player for a mostly horrible season.

 

I would bet that if you had a who would you want to leave first poll between those 3 Z would win for better or for worse. Personally, I hope that they mend fences but I can understand why they might want to trade him for the business reasons I mentioned.

 

As for the Pacers, it was just an example of how fans can be turned off when things go too far. Of course, the Pacers situation was a lot worse than anything that has ever happened with Z as well. The Pacers were getting into legal trouble left and right while Z's questionable decisions haven't really hurt anyone.

 

The Pacers keep losing, quit pretending that isn't the main problem.

[CubColtPacer]

Who gives a [expletive] about the Pacers?

 

And if the organization is so worried about public perception, they'd better throw Hendry & Quade out on their asses as well instead of scapegoating a player for a mostly horrible season.

 

I would bet that if you had a who would you want to leave first poll between those 3 Z would win for better or for worse. Personally, I hope that they mend fences but I can understand why they might want to trade him for the business reasons I mentioned.

 

As for the Pacers, it was just an example of how fans can be turned off when things go too far. Of course, the Pacers situation was a lot worse than anything that has ever happened with Z as well. The Pacers were getting into legal trouble left and right while Z's questionable decisions haven't really hurt anyone.

 

The Pacers keep losing, quit pretending that isn't the main problem.

 

I've said repeatedly that losing was the biggest cause of the Pacers losing fans during the last few years. The problem with losing fans to character issues is that you don't often get those fans back like you do the fans who just leave because you're losing. Those fans who left because of character issues are often the fans who would have stuck with a franchise even when they're losing (winning isn't everything to them) and so provide key ticket sales during downturns. The Pacers will likely get back more than half of the fans they lost when they start winning. But they'll miss the ones they did lose.

[jersey cubs fan]

The problem with losing fans to character issues is that you don't often get those fans back like you do the fans who just leave because you're losing. Those fans who left because of character issues are often the fans who would have stuck with a franchise even when they're losing (winning isn't everything to them) and so provide key ticket sales during downturns. The

 

You are still talking out of your butt. You have no freaking idea if they have been lost forever. You are making this nonsense up based on a team that has stunk for five years in a bad pro sports market to begin with.

 

Maybe you have some blowhard 65 year old tea party type who cannot fathom ever liking that team again. He will be dead soon and is meaningless in the net gain/loss of fans. And