Zambrano says he is retiring

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Oh, and teams DO want him. To say otherwise is absurd. Teams are always convinced they have the staff or the change of scenery to make a talented but troubled player click. They just don't want him where they have to give up anything of significant value because they know the Cubs are effectively over a barrel right now if they want to trade him. Multiple teams have taken chances on Milton Bradley, and he's an even worse headcase than Zambrano. Teams took chances on seemingly washed up junkie Josh Hamilton. There will be teams that want to take a chance with Zambrano.

 

If more than one team wants him, then the Cubs aren't over a barrel. If he still has value to other teams, the Cubs can get that value.

[Sammy Sofa]

Oh, and teams DO want him. To say otherwise is absurd. Teams are always convinced they have the staff or the change of scenery to make a talented but troubled player click. They just don't want him where they have to give up anything of significant value because they know the Cubs are effectively over a barrel right now if they want to trade him. Multiple teams have taken chances on Milton Bradley, and he's an even worse headcase than Zambrano. Teams took chances on seemingly washed up junkie Josh Hamilton. There will be teams that want to take a chance with Zambrano.

 

If more than one team wants him, then the Cubs aren't over a barrel. If he still has value to other teams, the Cubs can get that value.

 

Relatively speaking, sure. But in the grand scheme of things they're unfortunately over a barrel. They're not going to trade him without either getting a horrible contract back in return, paying for most of Zambrano's 2012 contract or simply getting scraps. Given that he's still 30, his significant past success and his relative offensive value the Cubs shouldn't be in that kind of corner...and yet, here we are.

[CubColtPacer]

Oh, and teams DO want him. To say otherwise is absurd. Teams are always convinced they have the staff or the change of scenery to make a talented but troubled player click. They just don't want him where they have to give up anything of significant value because they know the Cubs are effectively over a barrel right now if they want to trade him. Multiple teams have taken chances on Milton Bradley, and he's an even worse headcase than Zambrano. Teams took chances on seemingly washed up junkie Josh Hamilton. There will be teams that want to take a chance with Zambrano.

 

If more than one team wants him, then the Cubs aren't over a barrel. If he still has value to other teams, the Cubs can get that value.

 

Relatively speaking, sure. But in the grand scheme of things they're unfortunately over a barrel. They're not going to trade him without either getting a horrible contract back in return, paying for most of Zambrano's 2012 contract or simply getting scraps. Given that he's still 30, his significant past success and his relative offensive value the Cubs shouldn't be in that kind of corner...and yet, here we are.

 

I'm not sure about that. All of Z's deeper numbers are scary this season. His stuff is declining and he has become much more hittable. Line drive percentage is up, HR percentage is up, swinging strike is down, contact against is up, and he throws less fastballs every year. Knowing his arm history that is not a good sign at all. And with the run environment the last two seasons, the bar for pitchers is higher than it used to be. Z can probably put up a few more below average to average type seasons with some decent added value for his bat.

 

Even if he were a model citizen and was on the free agent market this year, I probably wouldn't pay him more than 8 million a year and less if it was an AL team. He's that risky at this point without much upside. Some team will take a chance on him, but I'm not sure how much the Cubs are losing by him having character issues. Apparently rival teams were saying last year that they didn't see him as much more than a #5, and I bet his reduced stuff brings up red flags among scouts.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm not sure about that. All of Z's deeper numbers are scary this season. His stuff is declining and he has become much more hittable. Line drive percentage is up, HR percentage is up, swinging strike is down, contact against is up, and he throws less fastballs every year. Knowing his arm history that is not a good sign at all. And with the run environment the last two seasons, the bar for pitchers is higher than it used to be. Z can probably put up a few more below average to average type seasons with some decent added value for his bat.

 

Even if he were a model citizen and was on the free agent market this year, I probably wouldn't pay him more than 8 million a year and less if it was an AL team. He's that risky at this point without much upside. Some team will take a chance on him, but I'm not sure how much the Cubs are losing by him having character issues. Apparently rival teams were saying last year that they didn't see him as much more than a #5, and I bet his reduced stuff brings up red flags among scouts.

 

I don't disagree with any of this, hence why I said "past success."

 

Again, my point in this is mostly that it just reflects badly on the Cubs. It's enough of a mess of a situation already without them further dragging through the mud, even if the effect on trading him is minimal.

[Backtobanks]

Oh, and teams DO want him. To say otherwise is absurd. Teams are always convinced they have the staff or the change of scenery to make a talented but troubled player click. They just don't want him where they have to give up anything of significant value because they know the Cubs are effectively over a barrel right now if they want to trade him. Multiple teams have taken chances on Milton Bradley, and he's an even worse headcase than Zambrano. Teams took chances on seemingly washed up junkie Josh Hamilton. There will be teams that want to take a chance with Zambrano.

 

If more than one team wants him, then the Cubs aren't over a barrel. If he still has value to other teams, the Cubs can get that value.

 

Relatively speaking, sure. But in the grand scheme of things they're unfortunately over a barrel. They're not going to trade him without either getting a horrible contract back in return, paying for most of Zambrano's 2012 contract or simply getting scraps. Given that he's still 30, his significant past success and his relative offensive value the Cubs shouldn't be in that kind of corner...and yet, here we are.

 

I'm not sure about that. All of Z's deeper numbers are scary this season. His stuff is declining and he has become much more hittable. Line drive percentage is up, HR percentage is up, swinging strike is down, contact against is up, and he throws less fastballs every year. Knowing his arm history that is not a good sign at all. And with the run environment the last two seasons, the bar for pitchers is higher than it used to be. Z can probably put up a few more below average to average type seasons with some decent added value for his bat.

 

Even if he were a model citizen and was on the free agent market this year, I probably wouldn't pay him more than 8 million a year and less if it was an AL team. He's that risky at this point without much upside. Some team will take a chance on him, but I'm not sure how much the Cubs are losing by him having character issues. Apparently rival teams were saying last year that they didn't see him as much more than a #5, and I bet his reduced stuff brings up red flags among scouts.

 

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

[Sammy Sofa]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

I havn't been following as closely as I have in years past, but hasn's Z actually been pretty close to his career averages but been brought down by a handful of disasterous outings?

[Sammy Sofa]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

I havn't been following as closely as I have in years past, but hasn's Z actually been pretty close to his career averages but been brought down by a handful of disasterous outings?

 

I'd have to double check. I know that was the case for most of the first half, but not sure if that's carried over since.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

I havn't been following as closely as I have in years past, but hasn's Z actually been pretty close to his career averages but been brought down by a handful of disasterous outings?

 

Avoiding the disastrous outings is a pretty important skill. Every pitcher looks amazing if you let them take out a few bad starts.

[Backtobanks]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

Remembering that he's an emotional roller coaster, he's been bad this year on a horrible team with no offense and pitiful defense. I think Zambrano on a winning team with good defensive and offensive support would be a completely different pitcher. Also, a change of scenary and a move from near the top of the rotation to near the back of the rotation certainly would lower the expectation level.

[CubColtPacer]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

Remembering that he's an emotional roller coaster, he's been bad this year on a horrible team with no offense and pitiful defense. I think Zambrano on a winning team with good defensive and offensive support would be a completely different pitcher. Also, a change of scenary and a move from near the top of the rotation to near the back of the rotation certainly would lower the expectation level.

 

If Z was emotionally upset, wouldn't he be trying to strike everybody out instead of lobbing pitches over the plate? That theory doesn't really fit with the reasons he's struggled this season. And the person who expects the most out of Zambrano is Zambrano-a change of scenery won't change that. He might improve working with an improved defense, but his BABIP isn't high especially compared to his LD percentage.

[Backtobanks]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

Remembering that he's an emotional roller coaster, he's been bad this year on a horrible team with no offense and pitiful defense. I think Zambrano on a winning team with good defensive and offensive support would be a completely different pitcher. Also, a change of scenary and a move from near the top of the rotation to near the back of the rotation certainly would lower the expectation level.

 

If Z was emotionally upset, wouldn't he be trying to strike everybody out instead of lobbing pitches over the plate? That theory doesn't really fit with the reasons he's struggled this season. And the person who expects the most out of Zambrano is Zambrano-a change of scenery won't change that. He might improve working with an improved defense, but his BABIP isn't high especially compared to his LD percentage.

 

I don't agree that a change of scenary won't change things. Lower expectations, not being "the man" in the clubhouse, not being coddled by the manager and front office, not being stalked daily by the local media, etc. might go a long way to improving his situation.

[CubColtPacer]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

Remembering that he's an emotional roller coaster, he's been bad this year on a horrible team with no offense and pitiful defense. I think Zambrano on a winning team with good defensive and offensive support would be a completely different pitcher. Also, a change of scenary and a move from near the top of the rotation to near the back of the rotation certainly would lower the expectation level.

 

If Z was emotionally upset, wouldn't he be trying to strike everybody out instead of lobbing pitches over the plate? That theory doesn't really fit with the reasons he's struggled this season. And the person who expects the most out of Zambrano is Zambrano-a change of scenery won't change that. He might improve working with an improved defense, but his BABIP isn't high especially compared to his LD percentage.

 

I don't agree that a change of scenary won't change things. Lower expectations, not being "the man" in the clubhouse, not being coddled by the manager and front office, not being stalked daily by the local media, etc. might go a long way to improving his situation.

 

It will help his emotional health and help him stay on the field, but I don't see it really helping his pitching. His pitching woes are for completely different reasons.

[KingCubsFan]

Zambrano had zero value before things came out in the press, and he has zero value after. It's not like each MLB team operates in a vacuum, and the only way they find out about other teams' players is through Gordon Wittenmeyer's hard-hitting journalism. I'm pretty confident every MLB team knows more about Carlos Zambrano than we do and is aware of numerous instances that we've never heard about. And that, coupled with the fact that he's not the pitcher he used to be, is the reason nobody wants him.

 

Hence why I said "shred of leverage." On top of that it just makes the organization look crappy. Zambrano has done more than enough on his own to make himself look like a mess. The organization piling on serves to accomplish...what?

 

Meatballism, rolling merrily along, yet again.

 

Oh, and teams DO want him. To say otherwise is absurd. Teams are always convinced they have the staff or the change of scenery to make a talented but troubled player click. They just don't want him where they have to give up anything of significant value because they know the Cubs are effectively over a barrel right now if they want to trade him. Multiple teams have taken chances on Milton Bradley, and he's an even worse headcase than Zambrano. Teams took chances on seemingly washed up junkie Josh Hamilton. There will be teams that want to take a chance with Zambrano.

Well, yeah, if he was a free agent I'm sure some team would want to take a chance. But as a trade asset, I still don't think he's worth anything, which is what I was talking about. And you make it seem like these type of anonymous comments are part of an organization-wide directive to tear Z down. I can't see Ricketts being on board with something like that.

[davearm2]

I'm not sure about that. All of Z's deeper numbers are scary this season. His stuff is declining and he has become much more hittable. Line drive percentage is up, HR percentage is up, swinging strike is down, contact against is up, and he throws less fastballs every year. Knowing his arm history that is not a good sign at all. And with the run environment the last two seasons, the bar for pitchers is higher than it used to be. Z can probably put up a few more below average to average type seasons with some decent added value for his bat.

 

Even if he were a model citizen and was on the free agent market this year, I probably wouldn't pay him more than 8 million a year and less if it was an AL team. He's that risky at this point without much upside. Some team will take a chance on him, but I'm not sure how much the Cubs are losing by him having character issues. Apparently rival teams were saying last year that they didn't see him as much more than a #5, and I bet his reduced stuff brings up red flags among scouts.

 

I don't disagree with any of this, hence why I said "past success."

 

Again, my point in this is mostly that it just reflects badly on the Cubs. It's enough of a mess of a situation already without them further dragging through the mud, even if the effect on trading him is minimal.

But you're 100% wrong that the Cubs are "dragging (it) through the mud" or "piling on". Where's the evidence of that? There is none.

 

Look since this situation blew up, you can be sure that every baseball writer in town, and several not in town, have been beating the bushes and leaving no stone unturned trying to squeeze out whatever juicy, salacious anti-Zambrano quote they can come up with, whether it be from the owner, the FO, the coaches, the players, or the batboy.

 

So far here's what they've come up with: Z drinks coffee and Red Bull.

 

You said (paraphrasing), the Cubs should be on lock-down on this whole thing.

 

Well actually, it seems like that's exactly what they are.

 

You're just too far gone with your assumed ineptitude and conspiracy theories to see it.

[Bull]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

I havn't been following as closely as I have in years past, but hasn's Z actually been pretty close to his career averages but been brought down by a handful of disasterous outings?

 

Avoiding the disastrous outings is a pretty important skill. Every pitcher looks amazing if you let them take out a few bad starts.

 

I'm not sure this is true. If you take out outliers on both ends, I think some pitchers will look very different than others with comparable overall stats.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Zambrano certainly is declining, but you can't convince me that he's not an upgrade to the #4 & #5 (and possibly #3) starters on a vast majority of the teams especially with the Cubs picking up most of his contract. Any negative talk about Zambrano's pitching by rival teams is just a way of lowering the price they would have to pay.

 

He's been pretty bad this year. Teams taking him on are going to be doing so out of the hope that he rebounds at least somewhat next season.

 

I havn't been following as closely as I have in years past, but hasn's Z actually been pretty close to his career averages but been brought down by a handful of disasterous outings?

 

Avoiding the disastrous outings is a pretty important skill. Every pitcher looks amazing if you let them take out a few bad starts.

 

I'm not sure this is true. If you take out outliers on both ends, I think some pitchers will look very different than others with comparable overall stats.

 

That's probably true, but it's subtly different from "He'd be his normal self if not for a few terrible starts."

[Sammy Sofa]

But you're 100% wrong that the Cubs are "dragging (it) through the mud" or "piling on". Where's the evidence of that? There is none.

 

The information being out there in the Wittemeyer article is the evidence. It clearly came from people within the organization.

 

Look since this situation blew up, you can be sure that every baseball writer in town, and several not in town, have been beating the bushes and leaving no stone unturned trying to squeeze out whatever juicy, salacious anti-Zambrano quote they can come up with, whether it be from the owner, the FO, the coaches, the players, or the batboy.

 

Right, and the organization's official word should be "no comment." Zambrano's done enough to bury himself. This is just a repeat of a trending pattern seen when the organization seemingly does little or nothing to clamp down on internal trashing of a player who the organization has apparently soured on due to personality or behavorial issues (or vice-versa).

 

So far here's what they've come up with: Z drinks coffee and Red Bull.

 

OK, I thought you were kidding with this glib summation before, but apparently you're serious. It should be painfully obvious that the point of the coffee and Red Bull story isn't that he drinks coffee and Red Bull. You're talking about that like they're trying to somehow drag him down by pointing what he drinks. No, the point is that he apparently drinks those to excess to the point that it helps lead to the cramping that's been a consistent problem throughout his career. The story is framed to portray Zambrano as not caring what the trainers and medical staff told him would help him be a better pitcher. Now, it very well could be true and probably is true, but it's a stupid thing to be letting out there.

 

You said (paraphrasing), the Cubs should be on lock-down on this whole thing.

 

Well actually, it seems like that's exactly what they are.

 

I have no idea how can say that based on the Wittemeyer article, which is full of tidbits slamming Zambrano that could have only come from within the organization.

 

You're just too far gone with your assumed ineptitude and conspiracy theories to see it.

 

It's not nearly as nefarious as you're trying to make it sound like I'm saying. The Cubs simply have a track record of happily slamming players once they've decided to run them out of town by not giving a damn what people within the organization say when the press comes a-callin'. It's not some Machiavellian orchestration behind the scenes; it's just petty and predictable and stupid. I'd simply prefer it if for once they attempted to take the high road in this type of situation.

[Bull]

I havn't been following as closely as I have in years past, but hasn's Z actually been pretty close to his career averages but been brought down by a handful of disasterous outings?

 

Avoiding the disastrous outings is a pretty important skill. Every pitcher looks amazing if you let them take out a few bad starts.

 

I'm not sure this is true. If you take out outliers on both ends, I think some pitchers will look very different than others with comparable overall stats.

 

That's probably true, but it's subtly different from "He'd be his normal self if not for a few terrible starts."

 

But its critical to the point. If Zambrano gives you 25 above average starts 4 ridiculous amazing and 4 ridiculous bad start, but randy wells gives you 10 above average, 5 average, 10 below average, 3 great, 1 amazing, and 4 ridiculous bad, who is your more valuable pitcher even if their ERAs and other overall numbers are comparable.

In 29 games Z has you with a chance to win and with wells its only 18.

 

I know you know this, but the mean and the median are not the same.

ETA: All of this is theoretical, and not based on any observance of the stats other than a cursory glance at Wells game log. Insert names James Wilson and Gregory House if anyone has a problem with the above.

[davearm2]

But you're 100% wrong that the Cubs are "dragging (it) through the mud" or "piling on". Where's the evidence of that? There is none.

 

The information being out there in the Wittemeyer article is the evidence. It clearly came from people within the organization.

 

Look since this situation blew up, you can be sure that every baseball writer in town, and several not in town, have been beating the bushes and leaving no stone unturned trying to squeeze out whatever juicy, salacious anti-Zambrano quote they can come up with, whether it be from the owner, the FO, the coaches, the players, or the batboy.

 

Right, and the organization's official word should be "no comment." Zambrano's done enough to bury himself. This is just a repeat of a trending pattern seen when the organization seemingly does little or nothing to clamp down on internal trashing of a player who the organization has apparently soured on due to personality or behavorial issues (or vice-versa).

 

So far here's what they've come up with: Z drinks coffee and Red Bull.

 

OK, I thought you were kidding with this glib summation before, but apparently you're serious. It should be painfully obvious that the point of the coffee and Red Bull story isn't that he drinks coffee and Red Bull. You're talking about that like they're trying to somehow drag him down by pointing what he drinks. No, the point is that he apparently drinks those to excess to the point that it helps lead to the cramping that's been a consistent problem throughout his career. The story is framed to portray Zambrano as not caring what the trainers and medical staff told him would help him be a better pitcher. Now, it very well could be true and probably is true, but it's a stupid thing to be letting out there.

 

You said (paraphrasing), the Cubs should be on lock-down on this whole thing.

 

Well actually, it seems like that's exactly what they are.

 

I have no idea how can say that based on the Wittemeyer article, which is full of tidbits slamming Zambrano that could have only come from within the organization.

 

You're just too far gone with your assumed ineptitude and conspiracy theories to see it.

 

It's not nearly as nefarious as you're trying to make it sound like I'm saying. The Cubs simply have a track record of happily slamming players once they've decided to run them out of town by not giving a damn what people within the organization say when the press comes a-callin'. It's not some Machiavellian orchestration behind the scenes; it's just petty and predictable and stupid. I'd simply prefer it if for once they attempted to take the high road in this type of situation.

The stuff in that article you're so hopping mad about is just Wittenmeyer dredging up a bunch of old stuff. None of the "tidbits slamming Zambrano" are new, or even remotely recent. Specifically, the coffee and Red Bull stuff, and the cramping issue with the training staff is from a couple years ago.

 

Where are the damning anti-Z quotes from the last couple weeks? There are none. And you darn well know every writer has been digging for them furiously.

 

The only logical conclusion is they are on lock-down, they are issuing "no comments", and they are trying to take the high road. They've given the media nothing since this latest episode went down. Just like you want them to do.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But its critical to the point. If Zambrano gives you 25 above average starts 4 ridiculous amazing and 4 ridiculous bad start, but randy wells gives you 10 above average, 5 average, 10 below average, 3 great, 1 amazing, and 4 ridiculous bad, who is your more valuable pitcher even if their ERAs and other overall numbers are comparable.

In 29 games Z has you with a chance to win and with wells its only 18.

 

I know you know this, but the mean and the median are not the same.

ETA: All of this is theoretical, and not based on any observance of the stats other than a cursory glance at Wells game log. Insert names James Wilson and Gregory House if anyone has a problem with the above.

 

If that's the case, we should be able to compare the number of really bad starts Zambrano has compared to other pitchers in some way, and see if it's really out of line. That's a lot more involved than just saying "He had some really bad starts, so let's not count those."

 

40.5% of Dempster's earned runs allowed came in 6 of his 26 starts

62.7% of Garza's earned runs allowed came in 7 of his 24 starts

50% of Zambrano's earned runs allowed came in 6 of his 24 starts

 

I'm sure if we looked at all the more or less reliable pitchers in the league, you'd see most of them fall into the same "boom or bust" pattern.

[Sammy Sofa]

But you're 100% wrong that the Cubs are "dragging (it) through the mud" or "piling on". Where's the evidence of that? There is none.

 

The information being out there in the Wittemeyer article is the evidence. It clearly came from people within the organization.

 

Look since this situation blew up, you can be sure that every baseball writer in town, and several not in town, have been beating the bushes and leaving no stone unturned trying to squeeze out whatever juicy, salacious anti-Zambrano quote they can come up with, whether it be from the owner, the FO, the coaches, the players, or the batboy.

 

Right, and the organization's official word should be "no comment." Zambrano's done enough to bury himself. This is just a repeat of a trending pattern seen when the organization seemingly does little or nothing to clamp down on internal trashing of a player who the organization has apparently soured on due to personality or behavorial issues (or vice-versa).

 

So far here's what they've come up with: Z drinks coffee and Red Bull.

 

OK, I thought you were kidding with this glib summation before, but apparently you're serious. It should be painfully obvious that the point of the coffee and Red Bull story isn't that he drinks coffee and Red Bull. You're talking about that like they're trying to somehow drag him down by pointing what he drinks. No, the point is that he apparently drinks those to excess to the point that it helps lead to the cramping that's been a consistent problem throughout his career. The story is framed to portray Zambrano as not caring what the trainers and medical staff told him would help him be a better pitcher. Now, it very well could be true and probably is true, but it's a stupid thing to be letting out there.

 

You said (paraphrasing), the Cubs should be on lock-down on this whole thing.

 

Well actually, it seems like that's exactly what they are.

 

I have no idea how can say that based on the Wittemeyer article, which is full of tidbits slamming Zambrano that could have only come from within the organization.

 

You're just too far gone with your assumed ineptitude and conspiracy theories to see it.

 

It's not nearly as nefarious as you're trying to make it sound like I'm saying. The Cubs simply have a track record of happily slamming players once they've decided to run them out of town by not giving a damn what people within the organization say when the press comes a-callin'. It's not some Machiavellian orchestration behind the scenes; it's just petty and predictable and stupid. I'd simply prefer it if for once they attempted to take the high road in this type of situation.

The stuff in that article you're so hopping mad about is just Wittenmeyer dredging up a bunch of old stuff. None of the "tidbits slamming Zambrano" are new, or even remotely recent. Specifically, the coffee and Red Bull stuff, and the cramping issue with the training staff is from a couple years ago.

 

Where are the damning anti-Z quotes from the last couple weeks? There are none. And you darn well know every writer has been digging for them furiously.

 

The only logical conclusion is they are on lock-down, they are issuing "no comments", and they are trying to take the high road. They've given the media nothing since this latest episode went down. Just like you want them to do.

 

I'm not "hopping mad." The coffee and Red Bull details aren't new, but the accused refusal to cut back is. And a bunch of the stuff in the Wittemeyer article is referring to to responses made during the fallout from this latest incident.

 

To me it's just a repeat of something we've seen too many times before, and I really don't care if you agree or not.

[davearm2]

To me it's just a repeat of something we've seen too many times before, and I really don't care if you agree or not.

"I really don't care if you agree or not" = "I've made up my mind and I'm not listening"

[Sammy Sofa]

Yes, that is it exactly. You have your opinion about how they're handling it and I have mine and we've both made it clear where we stand. You're not going to convince me and I have zero interest in convincing you.

[Bull]

But its critical to the point. If Zambrano gives you 25 above average starts 4 ridiculous amazing and 4 ridiculous bad start, but randy wells gives you 10 above average, 5 average, 10 below average, 3 great, 1 amazing, and 4 ridiculous bad, who is your more valuable pitcher even if their ERAs and other overall numbers are comparable.

In 29 games Z has you with a chance to win and with wells its only 18.

 

I know you know this, but the mean and the median are not the same.

ETA: All of this is theoretical, and not based on any observance of the stats other than a cursory glance at Wells game log. Insert names James Wilson and Gregory House if anyone has a problem with the above.

 

If that's the case, we should be able to compare the number of really bad starts Zambrano has compared to other pitchers in some way, and see if it's really out of line. That's a lot more involved than just saying "He had some really bad starts, so let's not count those."

 

40.5% of Dempster's earned runs allowed came in 6 of his 26 starts

62.7% of Garza's earned runs allowed came in 7 of his 24 starts

50% of Zambrano's earned runs allowed came in 6 of his 24 starts

 

I'm sure if we looked at all the more or less reliable pitchers in the league, you'd see most of them fall into the same "boom or bust" pattern.

 

10% more in the same number of starts is a huge difference between Demp and Z. and Garza has an ERA a full point lower than Z. I think you reinforced my point. and again, I'm not saying the original statement was true...I'm saying IF its true, its relevant.

 

Also those percentages mean very little (to this particular discussion) as Demp may have surrendered 7 runs in 6 innings and Z 7 runs in 3 innings. Again I'm not arguing the numbers, just the logic. IF it is true, its relevant.