College Basketball 2011-2012

[CubColtPacer]

Arguing about something as trivial as conference coach of the year as picked by the coaches is kinda silly.

probably, but i'm still going to do it anyway; Beilein (co-)won the conference with a 6'4" PF!

 

Considering just conference play:

 

Indiana beat expectations the most, but didn't win the conference.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan State beat expectations the most.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan probably had the least talent.

 

Looking back on it, I could see it easily going to each of those three coaches. Just depends on which criteria you like better. When you consider non-conference play though, Crean IMO would be a clear favorite, so he should be the best candidate from the Big 10 for the national COY.

[SouthSideRyan]

Arguing about something as trivial as conference coach of the year as picked by the coaches is kinda silly.

probably, but i'm still going to do it anyway; Beilein (co-)won the conference with a 6'4" PF!

 

Considering just conference play:

 

Indiana beat expectations the most, but didn't win the conference.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan State beat expectations the most.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan probably had the least talent.

 

Looking back on it, I could see it easily going to each of those three coaches. Just depends on which criteria you like better. When you consider non-conference play though, Crean IMO would be a clear favorite, so he should be the best candidate from the Big 10 for the national COY.

 

lol

[sneakypower]

Considering just conference play:

 

Indiana beat expectations the most, but didn't win the conference.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan State beat expectations the most.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan probably had the least talent.

 

Looking back on it, I could see it easily going to each of those three coaches. Just depends on which criteria you like better. When you consider non-conference play though, Crean IMO would be a clear favorite, so he should be the best candidate from the Big 10 for the national COY.

this argument doesn't really hold much water: http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102711aaa.html

 

2011-12 BIG TEN PRESEASON RANKINGS

1. Ohio State

2. Wisconsin

3. Michigan State

 

2011-12 PRESEASON ALL-BIG TEN TEAM

Draymond Green, Michigan State

Trevor Mbakwe, Minnesota

Jared Sullinger, Ohio State

Robbie Hummel, Purdue

Jordan Taylor, Wisconsin

we were unranked at the end of last year and our best player bolted for the pros, getting replaced by a 3-star frosh PG; our top-25 pre-season ranking was head-scratching to say the very least

[Formerly Snayke]

Right about what? Your opinion that Haith deserved an award that is subjectively awarded? Or your opinion that the Big 12 coaches formed a conspiracy to give the award to anyone but Mizzou?

 

Personally, I don't think it's as cut and dry as you have it drawn out.

 

Sure, KU was picked by the coaches (along w aTm) to win it. Personally, I think it was more out of respect. KU had won 7 straight, and there was no clear cut best team (although if Baylor had any other coach, they would have been the clear cut best on paper.) So they gave it to KU because it was theirs to lose.

 

They also cast their votes before McLemore and Traylor were declared ineligible. I'm sure that impacted their vote.

 

Missouri returned all its starters from a tournament team, though they did lose Bowers after the fact.

 

KU returned 1 starter, one key reserve (who is now a candidate for NPOY), and three guys who averaged 14, 10, and 6 mpg last year. Two of those guys have been unable to stay healthy for a full season. They also have two former walkons getting big minutes.

 

Most of the press did not pick KU to win the league. Dickie V said 5th place I believe. Your boy Drunko DeArmond said we had no shot at the league. We won it by two games.

 

Personally, I would have no beef if Haith had won it. I know Self voted for him. But to act like Self winning it over Haith is some crime against humanity makes you sound petty and whiny.

 

There's a lot of inference going on here, starting with the idea that I thought Haith should've won hands down. I really don't care who won (though I think Hoiberg was a fine choice); I was simply laughing at the wink-wink, nod-nod to Bill Self. Big 12 solidarity!

 

As for KU's preseason outlook, it's a nice idea that, against all odds, Bill Self took a bunch of guys who didn't play that much last year and steered them to a No. 1 seed while not having a couple of expected contributors, but he wasn't working with scrubs. Again, he's got one five-star and four four-star recruits in his lineup. They have two seven-footers, both defensive studs. The only team in the conference with talent on par is Baylor. On what planet was KU at some sort of disadvantage this season?

[Guest]

Whatever the answer, it definitely sounds like an argument worth having!

[Old Style]

Whatever the answer, it definitely sounds like an argument worth having!

no, it doesn't

[CubColtPacer]

Considering just conference play:

 

Indiana beat expectations the most, but didn't win the conference.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan State beat expectations the most.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan probably had the least talent.

 

Looking back on it, I could see it easily going to each of those three coaches. Just depends on which criteria you like better. When you consider non-conference play though, Crean IMO would be a clear favorite, so he should be the best candidate from the Big 10 for the national COY.

this argument doesn't really hold much water: http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/102711aaa.html

 

2011-12 BIG TEN PRESEASON RANKINGS

1. Ohio State

2. Wisconsin

3. Michigan State

 

2011-12 PRESEASON ALL-BIG TEN TEAM

Draymond Green, Michigan State

Trevor Mbakwe, Minnesota

Jared Sullinger, Ohio State

Robbie Hummel, Purdue

Jordan Taylor, Wisconsin

we were unranked at the end of last year and our best player bolted for the pros, getting replaced by a 3-star frosh PG; our top-25 pre-season ranking was head-scratching to say the very least

 

For some reason I had those flipped (Michigan 3rd and Michigan State 4th). I stand corrected.

 

Michigan was unranked to end the year last year only because they started off poorly. They were considered one of the hotter teams in the country and expectations were high. I would agree that Morris leaving made them a question mark once again.

[rawaction]

You can bump IU's chances up and MSU's down due to the loss of Dawson.

 

Confident they'll beat Wisconsin?

 

Ah crap, I was thinking they would play MSU second. No, not confident they'll beat Bucky, but it will be a de facto home game for the Hoosiers.

 

I actually want this Wisconsin win maybe more than any other game so far this season. Maybe it's because I expected losses that weren't....but I feel like IU should have won the Wisconsin game in Madison. I thought we outplayed them. And if Christian Watford doesn't miss 2 FTs, after he makes his steal and jumpshot shortly thereafter, IU is up 1 instead of down 1 with 2 minutes to play. Being down, IU had to play pressure D and left themselves vulnerable to offensive rebounds. Wisconsin was able to get a couple extra possessions up 1 and held possession for 1:04 seconds before converting both of their FTs. Got another offensive board next time down and we were then fouling to lengthen the game.

 

This 1 loss really eats at me for some reason. Every other game I think they were either out-hustled (Nebraska, Minnesota) or were playing a team as good or better on the road and really had no shot to win going into it.

[snoodmonger]

Right about what? Your opinion that Haith deserved an award that is subjectively awarded? Or your opinion that the Big 12 coaches formed a conspiracy to give the award to anyone but Mizzou?

 

Personally, I don't think it's as cut and dry as you have it drawn out.

 

Sure, KU was picked by the coaches (along w aTm) to win it. Personally, I think it was more out of respect. KU had won 7 straight, and there was no clear cut best team (although if Baylor had any other coach, they would have been the clear cut best on paper.) So they gave it to KU because it was theirs to lose.

 

They also cast their votes before McLemore and Traylor were declared ineligible. I'm sure that impacted their vote.

 

Missouri returned all its starters from a tournament team, though they did lose Bowers after the fact.

 

KU returned 1 starter, one key reserve (who is now a candidate for NPOY), and three guys who averaged 14, 10, and 6 mpg last year. Two of those guys have been unable to stay healthy for a full season. They also have two former walkons getting big minutes.

 

Most of the press did not pick KU to win the league. Dickie V said 5th place I believe. Your boy Drunko DeArmond said we had no shot at the league. We won it by two games.

 

Personally, I would have no beef if Haith had won it. I know Self voted for him. But to act like Self winning it over Haith is some crime against humanity makes you sound petty and whiny.

 

There's a lot of inference going on here, starting with the idea that I thought Haith should've won hands down. I really don't care who won (though I think Hoiberg was a fine choice); I was simply laughing at the wink-wink, nod-nod to Bill Self. Big 12 solidarity!

 

As for KU's preseason outlook, it's a nice idea that, against all odds, Bill Self took a bunch of guys who didn't play that much last year and steered them to a No. 1 seed while not having a couple of expected contributors, but he wasn't working with scrubs. Again, he's got one five-star and four four-star recruits in his lineup. They have two seven-footers, both defensive studs. The only team in the conference with talent on par is Baylor. On what planet was KU at some sort of disadvantage this season?

 

your posts make you sound like a whiny baby.

 

And we only have one 7 foot defensive stud. Not even sure who else you're talking about.

 

But you're right. It was all a huge conspiracy against Mizzou. KU actually has the most talented roster in college basketball, and anything less than a one seed and final four run with this group of future NBA HOFers would be a disaster.

 

Illiniguy, i thought you were joking about inviting Fijitiger here to post.

[CubColtPacer]

Arguing about something as trivial as conference coach of the year as picked by the coaches is kinda silly.

probably, but i'm still going to do it anyway; Beilein (co-)won the conference with a 6'4" PF!

 

Considering just conference play:

 

Indiana beat expectations the most, but didn't win the conference.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan State beat expectations the most.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan probably had the least talent.

 

Looking back on it, I could see it easily going to each of those three coaches. Just depends on which criteria you like better. When you consider non-conference play though, Crean IMO would be a clear favorite, so he should be the best candidate from the Big 10 for the national COY.

 

lol

 

I assume you're laughing at the last sentence? Indiana took a team that was picked to be 9th in the Big 10 and a fringe NCAA tournament and instead is likely a top 4 NCAA seed. And that's with one 5 star and only two 4 stars playing, so they weren't drowning in talent. Beilein's close, but they have similar overall resumes and Indiana overacheived much more than Michigan did this year.

[rawaction]

Arguing about something as trivial as conference coach of the year as picked by the coaches is kinda silly.

probably, but i'm still going to do it anyway; Beilein (co-)won the conference with a 6'4" PF!

 

Considering just conference play:

 

Indiana beat expectations the most, but didn't win the conference.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan State beat expectations the most.

Of the 3 teams that won the conference, Michigan probably had the least talent.

 

Looking back on it, I could see it easily going to each of those three coaches. Just depends on which criteria you like better. When you consider non-conference play though, Crean IMO would be a clear favorite, so he should be the best candidate from the Big 10 for the national COY.

 

lol

 

I assume you're laughing at the last sentence? Indiana took a team that was picked to be 9th in the Big 10 and a fringe NCAA tournament and instead is likely a top 4 NCAA seed. And that's with one 5 star and only two 4 stars playing, so they weren't drowning in talent. Beilein's close, but they have similar overall resumes and Indiana overacheived much more than Michigan did this year.

 

Ya know you can't win this right?

[sneakypower]

lol

 

I assume you're laughing at the last sentence? Indiana took a team that was picked to be 9th in the Big 10 and a fringe NCAA tournament and instead is likely a top 4 NCAA seed. And that's with one 5 star and only two 4 stars playing, so they weren't drowning in talent. Beilein's close, but they have similar overall resumes and Indiana overacheived much more than Michigan did this year.

(UM's starting five was/is entirely composed of 3-star players)

 

also, you seem to be arguing more that preseason predictions were woefully askew, rather than that Crean did any great job of coaching

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd argue that Crean's terrible coaching job last year made people(including myself) think Indiana was a lot worse than they actually were.

[Smack]

Anyone who thinks Tom Crean should win COY needs to put the hash pipe down.

 

The only reason IU 'exceeded' expectations is because IU had so pathetically underperformed the last few years. Congrats on a 5th place finish Tommy, you still lost to Nebraska and your only road win with any value (in your ENTIRE B1G career) was at Purdue this year.

 

Tom Crean as the face of IU's basketball program is so [expletive] hilarious I hope he sticks around another two decades.

[brinoch]

So now your narrative changes to Indiana underperformed these last couple of years. Riiiiight. If you want to make an actual case about something other than your own irrationality, please start at any time.

[SouthSideRyan]

So now your narrative changes to Indiana underperformed these last couple of years. Riiiiight. If you want to make an actual case about something other than your own irrationality, please start at any time.

 

I contend that Indiana smells like poop.

[CubColtPacer]

lol

 

I assume you're laughing at the last sentence? Indiana took a team that was picked to be 9th in the Big 10 and a fringe NCAA tournament and instead is likely a top 4 NCAA seed. And that's with one 5 star and only two 4 stars playing, so they weren't drowning in talent. Beilein's close, but they have similar overall resumes and Indiana overacheived much more than Michigan did this year.

(UM's starting five was/is entirely composed of 3-star players)

 

also, you seem to be arguing more that preseason predictions were woefully askew, rather than that Crean did any great job of coaching

 

I'm using preseason predictions because that seems like the least flawed way. You can use record from last year to this year, but that doesn't take into account the turnover in the roster. You can take into account level of talent based off recruiting rankings, but many of those rankings are out of date for players who are juniors or seniors. I also use preseason predictions because the main two criteria for coaches of the year seem to be winning in general, and overachieving preseason expectations.

 

Let's say this. I think Beilein should be in the race for National COY as well because I respect the recruiting rankings argument for lack of talent. But I don't think the voters put nearly as much stock in that as winning and exceeding expectations, so I think he'd clearly have to be behind Crean based off of those two categories. But I don't think Crean will win it either, nor will I be upset when he doesn't.

[NeifiIsMyHomeBoy]

I just wanted to say I love Bill Self, he's among the best coaches in college basketball, he develops big men better than anyone, and I wish he was still coaching Illinois.

[UMFan83]

Goodbye DePaul. It was a fun year. 3 whole Big East wins? That's as many as you had the last 3 seasons combined. Good job boys!

 

Hopefully with another year of experience under Prunell and a reletively decent recruiting class (by DePaul's standards), they can at least compete for a postseason berth (CBI or even NIT). There are no Mac Koshwall or Dar Tucker 4 star prospects in the class but a couple of highly regarded 3's filling positions of need should really help.

 

I think DePaul is very slowly going in the right direction, but next year is critical to determine is Prunell is going to pull this off.

[SouthSideRyan]

So now your narrative changes to Indiana underperformed these last couple of years. Riiiiight. If you want to make an actual case about something other than your own irrationality, please start at any time.

 

I contend that Indiana smells like poop.

 

Case closed.

[SouthSideRyan]

I just wanted to say I love Bill Self, he's among the best coaches in college basketball, he develops big men better than anyone, and I wish he was still coaching Illinois.

 

I just want to say that it's really [expletive] weird for any Illinois fan to still love Bill Self when he coached there for 3 years, has been gone for 9, and his move to Kansas cost us several recruits through the years.

Edited March 6, 2012 by SouthSideRyan

[apete6]

Goodbye DePaul. It was a fun year. 3 whole Big East wins? That's as many as you had the last 3 seasons combined. Good job boys!

 

Hopefully with another year of experience under Prunell and a reletively decent recruiting class (by DePaul's standards), they can at least compete for a postseason berth (CBI or even NIT). There are no Mac Koshwall or Dar Tucker 4 star prospects in the class but a couple of highly regarded 3's filling positions of need should really help.

 

I think DePaul is very slowly going in the right direction, but next year is critical to determine is Prunell is going to pull this off.

 

They were a lot better this year than last. Before the game today, they were over 50 spots higher in Pomeroy rankings than last year (and 178x more likely to win the Big East tourney than last year). Decent progress. They have to have a winning season and post season play next year as their goal (something like 10-2 noncon and 7-11 conference).

[bukie]

An interesting article on VCU and Shaka Smart from Luke Winn: http://ncaa-tournament.si.com/2012/03/06/at-vcu-a-new-point-guard-emerges/

[UMFan83]

Goodbye DePaul. It was a fun year. 3 whole Big East wins? That's as many as you had the last 3 seasons combined. Good job boys!

 

Hopefully with another year of experience under Prunell and a reletively decent recruiting class (by DePaul's standards), they can at least compete for a postseason berth (CBI or even NIT). There are no Mac Koshwall or Dar Tucker 4 star prospects in the class but a couple of highly regarded 3's filling positions of need should really help.

 

I think DePaul is very slowly going in the right direction, but next year is critical to determine is Prunell is going to pull this off.

 

They were a lot better this year than last. Before the game today, they were over 50 spots higher in Pomeroy rankings than last year (and 178x more likely to win the Big East tourney than last year). Decent progress. They have to have a winning season and post season play next year as their goal (something like 10-2 noncon and 7-11 conference).

 

The thing that was encouraging is that they got blown out a lot less in the BE this year, and in quite a few games were in it down the stretch (Providence, Louisville, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, St. John's) Then there were other games where DePaul was competitive or leading at halftime and fell apart in the 2nd half (Marquette, Georgetown). I'm sure some of it is from taking the opponent lightly (DePaul did have multiple games the last couple of years where they took a ranked team down to the wire to lose), but I also like to think that this is part of the learning process. As the team gets older, I hope to see them pulling out those games on occasion.

[Formerly Snayke]

And we only have one 7 foot defensive stud. Not even sure who else you're talking about.

 

Oops. Thomas Robinson is 6'10". And the difference between 6'10" and 7'0" is enormous, right?