Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[SCCubbieFAN]

I believe the Z to the Yankees rumor was already floated this offseason and Cashman shot it down completely

 

Yes, it was, and I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but if the Cubs truly need/want to shed payroll, Z seems to be the one who has the most value on the market. No one will take Soriano's contract and his skills have diminished so he won't be moved, and the Cubs need Fuk's bat in the lineup. With the emergence/availability of the younger arms in the Cubs system, it seems that Z can be moved without the rotation taking that sever of a hit. The Cubs should be able to get a pretty good bat in exchange for Z. Just a thought.

[KingCubsFan]

This trade is justified if Archer becomes a shutdown reliever.

 

Garza is better than Clement and Lilly when they joined the Blue fold.

 

Everyone involved in the trade besides Archer was redundant in the Cubs system. The Cubs stockpile up the middle minor leaguers for trade. It's a smart strategy because they have the highest value relative to their signing.

 

Garza is also outside the injury nexus and should improve facing NL batters who hit in the 8th and 9th spot.

 

The difference between Garza and Greinke is not worth the extra $30 million and uncertainty of the Wrigley microscope. Greinke (justifiably) hates playing the media game. He won't have to answer the same question 15 times after every start in Milwaukee.

 

My main complaint is that an offensive upgrade should be the highest priority. Failing that, there were no pitchers of Garza's caliber that were cost effective on the market. It's Garza for 3/24 or Westbrook for 2/24 (plus Archer and Lee).

 

I don't think it's fair to call Lee "redundant". Had he stayed and panned out he would quite conceivably have moved Castro to second in a few seasons.

If Castro becomes what everyone thinks he can be (perennial all star), I can't see a manager moving his 23 or 24 year old superstar to 2B to make room for a rookie. And unless Lee played SS, he's probably not that valuable.

[Tyrant]

If Castro becomes what everyone thinks he can be (perennial all star), I can't see a manager moving his 23 or 24 year old superstar to 2B to make room for a rookie. And unless Lee played SS, he's probably not that valuable.

 

It's moot now, but this was always the logical viewpoint. Even if Lee would have come up and been a truly incredible defender, young all-star players don't get displaced by rookies.

[Sammy Sofa]

I don't know why people are talking like moving Castro to 2nd would be some kind of punishment or demotion.

[CubColtPacer]

I don't know why people are talking like moving Castro to 2nd would be some kind of punishment or demotion.

 

It would be a major hit to his career path. 2B requires about 30 more OPS points per year than at SS. Castro's probably going to improve into a good enough defensive SS that he simply won't be as valuable at 2nd.

[David]

I don't know why people are talking like moving Castro to 2nd would be some kind of punishment or demotion.

 

 

Because it would be viewed as such. Agree with it or not, that is one of the reasons it just wouldn't be done.

 

Hell, Jeter wasn't even moved for freaking ARod. An established young (hopefully) all-star SS just isn't likely to be moved for a rookie, no matter how good.

 

And because it would make him a lot less valuable. Give me a DeRosa type at 2B who can hit and isn't necessarily a great fielder and leave Starlin at SS.

[UK1679666180]

Although Wilken gets blasted here pretty heavily based on his 1st rd picks, trades like this help add validity to what I think has been a good rebuilding job of the farm, compared to when he became the SD.

[Northside Blues]

I don't know why people are talking like moving Castro to 2nd would be some kind of punishment or demotion.

 

 

Because it would be viewed as such. Agree with it or not, that is one of the reasons it just wouldn't be done.

 

Hell, Jeter wasn't even moved for freaking ARod. An established young (hopefully) all-star SS just isn't likely to be moved for a rookie, no matter how good.

 

And because it would make him a lot less valuable. Give me a DeRosa type at 2B who can hit and isn't necessarily a great fielder and leave Starlin at SS.

 

http://www.flockaball.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/300px-MichaelYoungField1.jpg

[YearofDaCubs]

Although Wilken gets blasted here pretty heavily based on his 1st rd picks, trades like this help add validity to what I think has been a good rebuilding job of the farm, compared to when he became the SD.

Just curious, out of all the people that were traded how many were his picks?

[CubColtPacer]

Although Wilken gets blasted here pretty heavily based on his 1st rd picks, trades like this help add validity to what I think has been a good rebuilding job of the farm, compared to when he became the SD.

Just curious, out of all the people that were traded how many were his picks?

 

Only Guyer. Wilken's department did have significant input into the other three (Lee was signed under Wilken, Archer was traded to the Cubs under Wilken's watch, and Chirinos was switched to catcher after Wilken took over)

[haubrich91]

http://cubs.mlb.com/images/players/525x330/490063.jpg

[UK1679666180]

Although Wilken gets blasted here pretty heavily based on his 1st rd picks, trades like this help add validity to what I think has been a good rebuilding job of the farm, compared to when he became the SD.

Just curious, out of all the people that were traded how many were his picks?

 

Only Guyer. Wilken's department did have significant input into the other three (Lee was signed under Wilken, Archer was traded to the Cubs under Wilken's watch, and Chirinos was switched to catcher after Wilken took over)

This. Also, building up the group of arms (Cashner, Simpson, Jackson, McNutt, etc.) has made dealing Archer that much more easier. It is not like years past where it might be only one high ceiling guy then fall off quickly.

[shnsajax]

Although Wilken gets blasted here pretty heavily based on his 1st rd picks, trades like this help add validity to what I think has been a good rebuilding job of the farm, compared to when he became the SD.

Just curious, out of all the people that were traded how many were his picks?

 

Only Guyer. Wilken's department did have significant input into the other three (Lee was signed under Wilken, Archer was traded to the Cubs under Wilken's watch, and Chirinos was switched to catcher after Wilken took over)

This. Also, building up the group of arms (Cashner, Simpson, Jackson, McNutt, etc.) has made dealing Archer that much more easier. It is not like years past where it might be only one high ceiling guy then fall off quickly.

 

Aren't we selling high on Archer too? It sounds like McNutt has always been the favorite in the organization where Archer struggled every year till this year when everything suddenly clicked.

[UK1679666180]

Although Wilken gets blasted here pretty heavily based on his 1st rd picks, trades like this help add validity to what I think has been a good rebuilding job of the farm, compared to when he became the SD.

Just curious, out of all the people that were traded how many were his picks?

 

Only Guyer. Wilken's department did have significant input into the other three (Lee was signed under Wilken, Archer was traded to the Cubs under Wilken's watch, and Chirinos was switched to catcher after Wilken took over)

This. Also, building up the group of arms (Cashner, Simpson, Jackson, McNutt, etc.) has made dealing Archer that much more easier. It is not like years past where it might be only one high ceiling guy then fall off quickly.

 

Aren't we selling high on Archer too? It sounds like McNutt has always been the favorite in the organization where Archer struggled every year till this year when everything suddenly clicked.

Depends on how the Cubs rank him. Not wanting to give him up is why the trade took so long. I have no idea how they or any other team rank their pitchers though I wouldn't put BA as gospel.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110110&content_id=16413658&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

FWIW

[Clem Fandango]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110110&content_id=16413658&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

FWIW

 

Last season, Cashner was used in relief, but he could be switched to the rotation. Teams have inquired about the right-hander this offseason, but Cashner and outfielders Tyler Colvin and Brett Jackson were not players the Cubs wanted to part with.

 

If other teams were vying after Colvin and Hendry didn't listen........ :banghead:

[javy knows my name]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110110&content_id=16413658&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

FWIW

 

Last season, Cashner was used in relief, but he could be switched to the rotation. Teams have inquired about the right-hander this offseason, but Cashner and outfielders Tyler Colvin and Brett Jackson were not players the Cubs wanted to part with.

 

If other teams were vying after Colvin and Hendry didn't listen........ :banghead:

I really see no chance Hendry substituted, for instance, Chris Archer or Hak-Ju Lee for Colvin. I don't think Hendry likes him nearly as much as Muskat's dumb ass does.

[MWV]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110110&content_id=16413658&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

FWIW

"It enabled us to look at [Andrew] Cashner in a different light in some ways and also know we have a lot of experience at the back end if [Carlos] Marmol needs a blow"

 

As a square, I often need assistance in parsing slang.

Contextually I am reading "needs a day off", rather than "is jonesing for some coke" or "requires oral sex in order to perform at peak ability". Is this common baseball vernacular?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

As a square, I often need assistance in parsing slang.

Contextually I am reading "needs a day off", rather than "is jonesing for some coke" or "requires oral sex in order to perform at peak ability". Is this common baseball vernacular?

Yes and no. Carlos Marmol is the only one who requires all 3 to stay in peak physical condition.

[JonJayCutler]

The Tyler Colvin hate has reached an absurd level around here.

[javy knows my name]

The Tyler Colvin hate has reached an absurd level around here.

The prevailing Colvin love is far more misguided

[jersey cubs fan]

The Tyler Colvin hate has reached an absurd level around here.

 

It's not hate to value him lower than better players.

[CubsWin]

The Tyler Colvin hate has reached an absurd level around here.

 

It's not hate to value him lower than better players.

Correct. It's hate to be absolutely convinced that he sucks now and will suck in the future when he's still pretty young and has shown some potential.

 

I agree with those that value him lower than Brett Jackson and I am concerned about his ability to be selective at the plate and have a good OBP. But sometimes, they way he's talked about is rather absurd.

[Cubs Fan Dan]

The Tyler Colvin hate has reached an absurd level around here.

 

It's not hate to value him lower than better players.

Correct. It's hate to be absolutely convinced that he sucks now and will suck in the future when he's still pretty young and has shown some potential.

 

I agree with those that value him lower than Brett Jackson and I am concerned about his ability to be selective at the plate and have a good OBP. But sometimes, they way he's talked about is rather absurd.

 

Colvin has his issues but he seems to rarely make weak contact, he may never be a high OBP or even a .300 hitter but with some improvement he could potentially hit 30 homers and put up a .260/.320/.500. Defintely a serviceable player if he is a #6 or #7 hitter in the lineup. Plus he is cheap.

[jersey cubs fan]

The Tyler Colvin hate has reached an absurd level around here.

 

It's not hate to value him lower than better players.

Correct. It's hate to be absolutely convinced that he sucks now and will suck in the future when he's still pretty young and has shown some potential.

 

I agree with those that value him lower than Brett Jackson and I am concerned about his ability to be selective at the plate and have a good OBP. But sometimes, they way he's talked about is rather absurd.

 

Colvin has his issues but he seems to rarely make weak contact, he may never be a high OBP or even a .300 hitter but with some improvement he could potentially hit 30 homers and put up a .260/.320/.500. Defintely a serviceable player if he is a #6 or #7 hitter in the lineup. Plus he is cheap.

 

The biggest problem is he's a right fielder. He's a 4th OF, and if they use him like a 4th OF that woule be great. But he just makes far too many outs to be an everyday corner OF.