Cubs Acquire Garza for Archer, Lee, Guyer, Chirinos & Fuld

[CubsWin]

It's a cycle.

 

It's only a cycle if your GM is not competent enough to keep you competitive every season when you have crazy resources like the Cubs have been able to enjoy during the back end of this decade. It's only a cycle when your GM signs players to contracts that are way too long and drag down the payroll for years to come while getting poor production from that position and others due to those bad contracts.

 

There is no reason why the Cubs can't be the favorite in the NL Central every year. I know that's a lot to imagine as a Cub fan, but we've accepted mediocrity for so long, it's hard to think differently. However, payroll has grown every year until this year and the results have not been anywhere in tune with the increase.

It takes a top GM and a little luck. The Cubs have had neither lately. Here's hoping the next GM hire will be one of the best in the business.

[Northside Blues]

Jim Hendry, while far from being a top five GM, is also far from being the bottom of a barrel GM. He's what he is, average. He sits comfortably in the 10-20 range of pot'l GMs.

[PackLandVA]

Above average on trades and below average in free agency, perhaps?

[Guest]

Jim Hendry, while far from being a top five GM, is also far from being the bottom of a barrel GM. He's what he is, average. He sits comfortably in the 10-20 range of pot'l GMs.

By what metric?

 

From a wins/dollars there aren't many that are worse. He's mostly been the beneficiary of being on the long end of a big market-small market salary dump. Very few get less with more than Jim Hendry, no matter how nice he is or how hard he works.

 

More to the point, being the tallest midget at the circus isn't really an accomplishment.

[Northside Blues]

Wins/dollars is a terrible way to evaluate a GM. You never know who the guy actually targets, if a player he coveted for various reasons had a bigger desire to play elsewhere. Things like that. Of course a team with a big payroll that has sat around 500 during a GMs tenure is going to be near the bottom in wins per dollar (which is still, and has always been a terrible way to think of players "value"). All it says is that we have had a poor ability to develop our own talent to go with the money he has spent. It's not as if he is trading away our young talents, it's that we simply haven't done that much. Jim Hendry hasn't been any worse than Theo Epstein on FA/Extension's (Julio Lugo), Billy Beane (Eric Chavez), and you can go on. The difference is that Epstein's farm system has been fairly productive (thanks to more $$$), and all the other "good" GMs with a high wins per dollar have all been the beneficiary of successful farm systems (which are usually built in their predecessors tenure).

 

He's average for signing free agents sure the Soriano deal may have been bad, but Ted Lilly was great. He's very good at finding castoffs that actually do well. Michael Barrett, Tom Gorzelanny, Ryan Dempster, etc. He's always been a solid guy in trades. He's also done relatively well when trading guys for prospects (Archer, Ceda, etc). The only thing that has kept the Cubs from going to the playoffs more often under his tenure has been a system producing one or two impact bats. An Albert Pujols, an Evan Longoria, a Joe Mauer, a Justin Morneau, a Joey Votto, a Prince Fielder, a Ryan Braun, etc. Those are the types of players that create high wins to dollar spent ratios. I'm not sure how much fault Hendry is at not producing one. Typically those players are top five picks, and we've had one top five pick in his tenure and we picked a guy that was a consensus top five pick. You can say Soto is an impact bat, but Soto's only been one in two of the years Hendry's been here - and in one of those years we won more games than any Cub team since World War II.

[Guest]

Wins/dollars is a terrible way to evaluate a GM.

You're right I like your way better.

[Northside Blues]

So, should Jocketty get credit for a high Win/$$ this year? Because of Joey Votto's value? His ass got lucky.

[daske17]

Oh good, it's the semi-annual "Hendry's a hack!"/"No he's not!" argument.

 

Not to be a scold nor am I an admin, but can we try and keep this on Garza?

[CubsWin]

Jim Hendry, while far from being a top five GM, is also far from being the bottom of a barrel GM. He's what he is, average. He sits comfortably in the 10-20 range of pot'l GMs.

Yep, that's how I see him, too.

[CubsWin]

Oh good, it's the semi-annual "Hendry's a hack!"/"No he's not!" argument.

 

Not to be a scold nor am I an admin, but can we try and keep this on Garza?

Semi-annual? I thought it was simply ongoing.

 

But, yes, back to Garza, I haven't read anything on this for weeks. Not to say that it's dead, just that there isn't much to talk about outside of saying the only way I would do it is if they didn't get any of our top prospects. Top prospects include Archer, McNutt, B. Jackson, Lee, Lake, Vitters, Golden or Simpson. That would leave a best possible package of Brandon Guyer, Jay Jackson and Chris Carpenter (or younger guys like Ben Wells or Austin Reed). I guess I don't want him that badly.

[CUBZ99]

I didn't realize that in approx. half of Garza's games last year that he gave up 1 ER or less. That is pretty impressive. I would take him.

[CubsWin]

I didn't realize that in approx. half of Garza's games last year that he gave up 1 ER or less. That is pretty impressive. I would take him.

I would take him, too. But at what cost? He's about to get a lot more expensive.

[SweetZombieJesus]

I didn't realize that in approx. half of Garza's games last year that he gave up 1 ER or less. That is pretty impressive. I would take him.

 

meh, Mitch Atk...err Randy Wells could do that.

[Guest]

Jim Hendry, while far from being a top five GM, is also far from being the bottom of a barrel GM. He's what he is, average. He sits comfortably in the 10-20 range of pot'l GMs.

Yep, that's how I see him, too.

 

When I responded, you can pretend that wasn't one of my many Jim Hendry hate posts. While I did say it takes a competent GM, that wasn't necessarily a drag on Hendry. My point being, with the Cubs resources since 2003, there should not have been a "cycle" of any kind. GM's in that time have done much more with less and if you gave a good GM those resources, I'm certainly convinced that the Cubs could have been in a position to dominate their division and the NL throughout the remainder of the decade and beyond.

 

It's possible that Hendry might have gotten those results if he went in an entirely different direction than he did. Unfortunately for him, he did go in the direction he did, and this organization has taken steps backwards rather than forwards too many times.

 

Given another GM gig, Hendry may learn from his previous mistakes and show the skills of a top tier GM. However, one cannot ignore the mistakes that have been made to this point and where this team is currently at today.

 

Basically I was saying that there is no reason for a team with a 130m payroll to have to grab victory in cycles. They should be in a position to win every year like the Yankees and Boston always do. They shouldn't have to go through a rebuilding mode when they lose a top tier free agent. They should be able to trade from their resources and sign top tier free agents to replace the players they are losing.

[CubsWin]

Jim Hendry, while far from being a top five GM, is also far from being the bottom of a barrel GM. He's what he is, average. He sits comfortably in the 10-20 range of pot'l GMs.

Yep, that's how I see him, too.

 

When I responded, you can pretend that wasn't one of my many Jim Hendry hate posts. While I did say it takes a competent GM, that wasn't necessarily a drag on Hendry. My point being, with the Cubs resources since 2003, there should not have been a "cycle" of any kind. GM's in that time have done much more with less and if you gave a good GM those resources, I'm certainly convinced that the Cubs could have been in a position to dominate their division and the NL throughout the remainder of the decade and beyond.

 

It's possible that Hendry might have gotten those results if he went in an entirely different direction than he did. Unfortunately for him, he did go in the direction he did, and this organization has taken steps backwards rather than forwards too many times.

 

Given another GM gig, Hendry may learn from his previous mistakes and show the skills of a top tier GM. However, one cannot ignore the mistakes that have been made to this point and where this team is currently at today.

 

Basically I was saying that there is no reason for a team with a 130m payroll to have to grab victory in cycles. They should be in a position to win every year like the Yankees and Boston always do. They shouldn't have to go through a rebuilding mode when they lose a top tier free agent. They should be able to trade from their resources and sign top tier free agents to replace the players they are losing.

Agreed. Maybe not the Yank-mes. They are in a financial class all by their lonesome. But the Cubs resources aren't that different than the Red Sox. Their results, however, sadly are. Due to mainly some poor signings and extensions. I don't think anyone is ignoring his mistakes. However, those that consider the improvements Hendry made to the organization to have been lucked into and call him an idiot and the worst are ignoring his positives.

 

That said, the Cubs deserve a top notch GM, and to date, Hendry has not proven himself to be that.

 

And now back to our slow-moving, but regularly scheduled, Matt Garza program...

[CubsWin]

I didn't realize that in approx. half of Garza's games last year that he gave up 1 ER or less. That is pretty impressive. I would take him.

 

meh, Mitch Atk...err Randy Wells could do that.

Last year, Wells gave up 1 or less ER in 11 of his 32 starts (34.4%). Garza did it in 13 of his 32 starts (40.6%).

 

In 2009, Wells gave up 1 or less ER in 12 of his 27 starts (44.4%). Garza did it in 8 of his 32 starts (25%).

 

So, yeah, Randy Wells could do that.

[XZero771679666304]

I didn't realize that in approx. half of Garza's games last year that he gave up 1 ER or less. That is pretty impressive. I would take him.

 

meh, Mitch Atk...err Randy Wells could do that.

Last year, Wells gave up 1 or less ER in 11 of his 32 starts (34.4%). Garza did it in 13 of his 32 starts (40.6%).

 

In 2009, Wells gave up 1 or less ER in 12 of his 27 starts (44.4%). Garza did it in 8 of his 32 starts (25%).

 

So, yeah, Randy Wells could do that.

 

 

Again, let's remember Garza did it in the AL East. I'm fairly certain Wells wouldn't fare as well.

[Productive Outs]

I didn't realize that in approx. half of Garza's games last year that he gave up 1 ER or less. That is pretty impressive. I would take him.

 

meh, Mitch Atk...err Randy Wells could do that.

 

you are the definition of a troll.

[PrimeTime]

Nothing really new, but this was posted on Chicagocubsonline.com so I thought I'd just post the latest update I seen.

 

 

 

The CCO's first weekend update of 2011 ... it might be a New Year but Jim Hendry remains focused on making improvements to his pitching staff. Matt Garza is still at the top of the GM's wish list and according to Bruce Levine, Hendry is "trying like heck" to trade for Garza.

 

Here is the update including more on Garza, plus notes and rumors from Talkin' Baseball ...

 

Notes and Rumors from Talkin' Baseball

The always-informative Bruce Levine provided some insight on the Cubs' off-season New Year's Day. Along side Fred Huebner, the talk ranged from the players Jim Hendry is still working to acquire and keys for the Cubs in 2011.

 

The keys to the Cubs' upcoming season is Carlos Zambrano ... along with Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez, plus the continued development of Starlin Castro and Tyler Colvin.

 

Here are the highlights ...

 

Jason Frasor is probably still available and Levine thinks the Cubs are still interested. Frasor is coming off a down year (3-4 with a 3.68 ERA and a 1.38 WHIP in 69 games) compared to a strong 2009 campaign (7-3 with a 2.50 ERA and a 1.02 WHIP in 61 games). Levine did not mention what the Cubs would have to give the Blue Jays for the Oak Forest native.

 

The Blue Jays offered Frasor salary arbitration and he accepted it instead of opting for free agency. Frasor earned $2.65 million last year.

 

The Cubs are still very much interested in Matt Garza ... along with several other teams. According to Levine, the Rangers are now out of the mix for Garza. With the signing of Brandon Webb, coupled with their desire to develop their young pitchers, Texas has decided to move on.

 

The Nationals could be one of the other teams in the mix for Garza. The Rays continue to ask for three or four top prospects (again, top prospects not the top four prospects in the Cubs organization).

 

The Cubs have to address their starting pitching according to Levine. While they want to build a strong organization they still must compete in 2011.

[Little Slide Rooter]

If this trade does go down, we'll be giving up a hell of a lot more than Hak Ju Lee and Robinson Chirinos judging by the way that both Hendry and the Rays GM are playing their hands.

[Post Count Padder]

Haven't we been interested in Frasor each of the last like 4 offseasons? Hendry better not overpay for a middle reliever, especially since I can tell he's gonna give up way too much for Garza.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Haven't we been interested in Frasor each of the last like 4 offseasons? Hendry better not overpay for a middle reliever, especially since I can tell he's gonna give up way too much for Garza.

 

with Wood, Marmol, Guz, Marshall, Grabow, and plenty of inside options, anything short of a minor league deal with a ST invite would be overpaying for a reliever.

[StylesClash]

Haven't we been interested in Frasor each of the last like 4 offseasons? Hendry better not overpay for a middle reliever, especially since I can tell he's gonna give up way too much for Garza.

 

You guys are way too hard on Hendry. His big mistakes have come with free agent signings, not trades. Other than the Juan Pierre deal I'd say his trade track record is excellent. Considering all the high profile trades Hendry has made over the years I'd say its impressive that Ricky Nolasco is the only dealt Cub prospect to turn into a real commodity (Pinto's control is still way too erratic to fall into that category).

[CubsWin]

Haven't we been interested in Frasor each of the last like 4 offseasons? Hendry better not overpay for a middle reliever, especially since I can tell he's gonna give up way too much for Garza.

 

You guys are way too hard on Hendry. His big mistakes have come with free agent signings, not trades. Other than the Juan Pierre deal I'd say his trade track record is excellent. Considering all the high profile trades Hendry has made over the years I'd say its impressive that Ricky Nolasco is the only dealt Cub prospect to turn into a real commodity (Pinto's control is still way too erratic to fall into that category).

Dontrelle Willis? Short-lived, but definitely turned into a real commodity.

 

But I agree, Hendry's trades for the most part have been his strong suit.

[SweetZombieJesus]

Dontrelle Willis? Short-lived, but definitely turned into a real commodity.

 

Matt Clement completely sucked for 3 seasons :roll:

 

Dontrelle was a overhyped player save for 2005. You could make a decent arguement that the Cubs won that deal.