NFL Week 6

[ISUCubsFan]

So in thinking of the current MVP race Orton has to be up there. Brees, Peyton and Favre right now I would think lead it pretty easily. Then after that its either AP or Orton in my mind. Considering his team is undefeated, his 9-1 ratio (with one pick being a hail mary), and the adverse situation he came in on I would say he is definitely top 5 right now. Opinions? I wondering if it is my Purdue bias blinding me.

 

Roethlisberger could join them if he gets his ratio better and Pittsburgh stops losing. I would also put Schaub in with Roethlisberger.

 

Matt Ryan (really under the radar) and Eli should be up there. I don't think Orton will/should win but he's probably top 10 at this point. AP isn't high on my list as of now, but he's AP, so that could change.

[Flames24Rulz]

Jon Gruden: "Do you want a guy who can throw or a guy who wins? Kyle Orton is a winner."

 

[expletive] you you [expletive] idiot

 

Yeah the way it was said was dumb. I think he was meaning more that he would rather have a guy who manages the game than a guy who gun slings it everywhere and has a lot of turnovers (as well as big plays). I would agree with that point.

 

No, it's [expletive] stupid. That team would probably be 6-0 with Cutler. The Bears would not be 6-0 with Orton

 

It's not like the Bears are 6-0 with Cutler either.

[Derwood]

Jon Gruden: "Do you want a guy who can throw or a guy who wins? Kyle Orton is a winner."

 

[expletive] you you [expletive] idiot

 

Yeah the way it was said was dumb. I think he was meaning more that he would rather have a guy who manages the game than a guy who gun slings it everywhere and has a lot of turnovers (as well as big plays). I would agree with that point.

 

No, it's [expletive] stupid. That team would probably be 6-0 with Cutler. The Bears would not be 6-0 with Orton

 

It's not like the Bears are 6-0 with Cutler either.

 

Correct, because football is a team game where one guy isn't always the difference. There are a dozen QB's you could put on the Broncos and they'd do just as well. The media is turning Orton into the NFL's David Eckstein here

[SpongeWorthy]

http://i37.tinypic.com/jp8owi.jpg

[Flames24Rulz]

Jon Gruden: "Do you want a guy who can throw or a guy who wins? Kyle Orton is a winner."

 

[expletive] you you [expletive] idiot

 

Yeah the way it was said was dumb. I think he was meaning more that he would rather have a guy who manages the game than a guy who gun slings it everywhere and has a lot of turnovers (as well as big plays). I would agree with that point.

 

No, it's [expletive] stupid. That team would probably be 6-0 with Cutler. The Bears would not be 6-0 with Orton

 

It's not like the Bears are 6-0 with Cutler either.

 

Correct, because football is a team game where one guy isn't always the difference. There are a dozen QB's you could put on the Broncos and they'd do just as well. The media is turning Orton into the NFL's David Eckstein here

 

Agree to a point, but the QB always gets the brunt of the blame or gets all of the success when his team is doing good.

 

That's no different with Orton right now. He's in a real good situation but how many people were saying that was a good situation a little more than a month ago? 3 people? He's done everything he's needed to do this year as he has a QB rating of over 100, a 10 to 1 TD to INT ratio, and 1500 yards on the season in six games. You can spin it any way you want to, but that's pretty good.

[CubbieBum]

So in thinking of the current MVP race Orton has to be up there. Brees, Peyton and Favre right now I would think lead it pretty easily. Then after that its either AP or Orton in my mind. Considering his team is undefeated, his 9-1 ratio (with one pick being a hail mary), and the adverse situation he came in on I would say he is definitely top 5 right now. Opinions? I wondering if it is my Purdue bias blinding me.

 

Roethlisberger could join them if he gets his ratio better and Pittsburgh stops losing. I would also put Schaub in with Roethlisberger.

 

Matt Ryan (really under the radar) and Eli should be up there. I don't think Orton will/should win but he's probably top 10 at this point. AP isn't high on my list as of now, but he's AP, so that could change.

 

Well you should take a look at his stats. He isn't getting the attention he deserves because of Favre. He leads the league in rushing averaging more than 100 yards a game and has 7 TD's. He's on pace for 1,664 yards and 19 TD's plus a career high in receptions.

 

As far as Eli and Ryan go both are having good seasons but not MVP seasons. Eli is barely completing 60% of his passes and Ryan is 18th in yards and 10th in TD's.

[hawkeyecub]

I still can't figure out how they're doing it defensively with a bunch of nobodies. Check that, they have 3-4 really good players, but the rest of that unit was picked up off the scrap heap.

 

They're confusing the hell out of every o-line they face. It's really easy to make fun of the "Orton just wins" stuff, but he really is playing well this year.

[CubbieBum]

Agree to a point, but the QB always gets the brunt of the blame or gets all of the success when his team is doing good.

 

That's no different with Orton right now. He's in a real good situation but how many people were saying that was a good situation a little more than a month ago? 3 people? He's done everything he's needed to do this year as he has a QB rating of over 100, a 10 to 1 TD to INT ratio, and 1500 yards on the season in six games. You can spin it any way you want to, but that's pretty good.

 

Ratio is 9-1. His rating is over 100 though now with this game.

[ELCABALLO45]

Jon Gruden: "Do you want a guy who can throw or a guy who wins? Kyle Orton is a winner."

 

[expletive] you you [expletive] idiot

 

Yeah the way it was said was dumb. I think he was meaning more that he would rather have a guy who manages the game than a guy who gun slings it everywhere and has a lot of turnovers (as well as big plays). I would agree with that point.

 

No, it's [expletive] stupid. That team would probably be 6-0 with Cutler. The Bears would not be 6-0 with Orton

 

It's not like the Bears are 6-0 with Cutler either.

 

Correct, because football is a team game where one guy isn't always the difference. There are a dozen QB's you could put on the Broncos and they'd do just as well. The media is turning Orton into the NFL's David Eckstein here

 

His play is a part of why they are 6-0. He has only thrown 1 pick and it was on a hail mary. He is a damn good QB right now.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Jon Gruden: "Do you want a guy who can throw or a guy who wins? Kyle Orton is a winner."

 

[expletive] you you [expletive] idiot

 

Yeah the way it was said was dumb. I think he was meaning more that he would rather have a guy who manages the game than a guy who gun slings it everywhere and has a lot of turnovers (as well as big plays). I would agree with that point.

 

No, it's [expletive] stupid. That team would probably be 6-0 with Cutler. The Bears would not be 6-0 with Orton

 

Or maybe Cutler's higher risk/reward play would've resulted in more uneven play and a much higher probability/certainty that Denver would've lost at least one game, especially considering 4 of the six were tight/one score games.

[SpongeWorthy]

Orton has time to cook steaks back there and they have a good receiver group and scheme. Teams will adjust and find ways to pressure him or make him beat you down the field. The Chargers don't have the personnel for it. He'll come back down to Earth. He's doing a great job now though.

 

God I wish the Bears had Ryan Clady. He flat out embarrassed Merriman tonight.

[ELCABALLO45]

Orton has time to cook steaks back there and they have a good receiver group and scheme. Teams will adjust and find ways to pressure him or make him beat you down the field. The Chargers don't have the personnel for it. He'll come back down to Earth. He's doing a great job now though.

 

God I wish the Bears had Ryan Clady. He flat out embarrassed Merriman tonight.

 

Alot of people are embarrassing Merriman this year, but point is correct. Clady is a top 3 T in the league right now. The Bronco's offensive line as a whole could be the best in the league

[Derwood]

Or maybe Cutler's higher risk/reward play would've resulted in more uneven play and a much higher probability/certainty that Denver would've lost at least one game, especially considering 4 of the six were tight/one score games.

 

Okay, maybe. But if you had to choose one, who would you choose?

[hawkeyecub]

Or maybe Cutler's higher risk/reward play would've resulted in more uneven play and a much higher probability/certainty that Denver would've lost at least one game, especially considering 4 of the six were tight/one score games.

 

Okay, maybe. But if you had to choose one, who would you choose?

 

I can't believe I'm even saying this because of how pissed I was that the Bears were able to get a franchise QB, but it depends on the situation.

 

The Bears defense looks solid but not great. They have a poor o-line, no running game and WR's who had done nothing prior to the year. They need Cutler or they don't have much.

 

The Broncos thus far have a great defense, a great o-line, good running game and solid weapons in the passing game. They can win with above-average QB play that minimizes mistakes. I honestly think Orton is a better fit for that team as long as the other factors remain.

[CubbieBum]

Or maybe Cutler's higher risk/reward play would've resulted in more uneven play and a much higher probability/certainty that Denver would've lost at least one game, especially considering 4 of the six were tight/one score games.

 

Okay, maybe. But if you had to choose one, who would you choose?

 

For the future I would take Cutler although it is a lot closer than many believed it was at the start of the season.

 

Anyways that is not what Gruden was saying. He was merely responding to MT's comment that Orton was put down as a QB when he was traded, "a guy who couldn't win the job in Chicago."

 

Also doesn't Cutler have 3 or 4 INT's in the red zone this year. I remember hearing that during the game last night.

[CubbieBum]

Or maybe Cutler's higher risk/reward play would've resulted in more uneven play and a much higher probability/certainty that Denver would've lost at least one game, especially considering 4 of the six were tight/one score games.

 

Okay, maybe. But if you had to choose one, who would you choose?

 

I can't believe I'm even saying this because of how pissed I was that the Bears were able to get a franchise QB, but it depends on the situation.

 

The Bears defense looks solid but not great. They have a poor o-line, no running game and WR's who had done nothing prior to the year. They need Cutler or they don't have much.

 

The Broncos thus far have a great defense, a great o-line, good running game and solid weapons in the passing game. They can win with above-average QB play that minimizes mistakes. I honestly think Orton is a better fit for that team as long as the other factors remain.

 

That sums it up well.

[SpongeWorthy]

Teams will adjust to Orton and what McDaniels is doing. It's not like Brady kept tearing up the league after his 2007 regular season (Titans aside). He has GREAT personnel around him but a team with a decent secondary can stack the box and will make Orton have to attack downfield to move the football and he'll struggle. I have zero doubt about that.

[Guest]

Teams will adjust to Orton and what McDaniels is doing. It's not like Brady kept tearing up the league after his 2007 regular season (Titans aside). He has GREAT personnel around him but a team with a decent secondary can stack the box and will make Orton have to attack downfield to move the football and he'll struggle. I have zero doubt about that.

 

Brady's 2007 was a historically great season. Anybody who expected him to repeat that is an idiot. He's also coming back from a knee injury and before the first game of this year, hadn't played in a real game (not preseason) since the Super Bowl loss to the Giants. The odds of him stepping back in and throwing for 300 yards and three TD's week in and week out right away were slim.

[Z38Cubs]

The Cutler-Orton stuff is really comical, and I knew it would come up if Orton started out well. I know Orton has been good so far, but it's more a product of the offensive system he's in. He isn't asked to throw it downfield more than once or twice a game. He threw 50 times in the New England game and only 6 or 7 were more than 10 yards downfield. His offensive allows him to read a book before he needs to make the throw. His run game has been good and he has two explosive receivers and a solid tight end. His defense also happens to be dominating the opponent. As Spongeworthy said, teams will make adjustments and his numbers will come back to the norm eventually. I'll still take my chances with Cutler as my QB over Orton any day of the week.

[SpongeWorthy]

Teams will adjust to Orton and what McDaniels is doing. It's not like Brady kept tearing up the league after his 2007 regular season (Titans aside). He has GREAT personnel around him but a team with a decent secondary can stack the box and will make Orton have to attack downfield to move the football and he'll struggle. I have zero doubt about that.

 

Brady's 2007 was a historically great season. Anybody who expected him to repeat that is an idiot. He's also coming back from a knee injury and before the first game of this year, hadn't played in a real game (not preseason) since the Super Bowl loss to the Giants. The odds of him stepping back in and throwing for 300 yards and three TD's week in and week out right away were slim.

 

Teams had already started to adjust to Brady in the 2007 season (e.g. the playoffs). It's not a knock on him it's just that teams learn how to defend things that terrorize the league.

 

Now Orton is nowhere near the caliber of QB that Brady is but he'll fall from this level of performance. He's simply not that good a quarterback to maintain a 100+ passer rating. Remember when Grossman was lighting up the league in the first half of 2006? Orton has a much better cast around him now but he'll slip.

 

So far the only game he's had to play catch up in was a miraculous fluke. His team simply hasn't given up points in the 2nd half of games this year and is denying an ungodly amount of 3rd down conversions. That stuff isn't sustainable. At some point Orton will have to perform coming from behind or will meet a team that can force him to attack downfield for an entire game. Denver could scrape by because of their D and running game but he's still not going to WIN the game for you in that situation.

 

I guess my point is that Denver hasn't been in a situation where they absolutely had to be explosive in the passing game.

[NCCubFan]

Not sure how many people will care that much about this, but he is the longest tenured coach in the NFL:

 

Coaching is a big part of the problem, said the 86-year-old Adams, who made no promises about Jeff Fisher's future with the franchise beyond this season. Fisher, now in his 15th season at the helm of the Titans, is under contract through 2011.

"If we end up losing every game or don't look better, I'd have to look at that pretty hard, you know what I mean?'' Adams said during a telephone interview Sunday night. "The way it is going, I don't know if we'll win any games, and that is unheard of in the National Football League.

 

LOL at that last part. Um, Lions?

 

Eh, once in the entire history of the NFL is still kind of unheard of.

The 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers say hi.

 

One of my all-time favorite quotes came from that team. Head coach John McKay was asked what he thought of his team's execution, and his response was "I'm in favor of it."

[dew1679666265]

Not sure how many people will care that much about this, but he is the longest tenured coach in the NFL:

 

Coaching is a big part of the problem, said the 86-year-old Adams, who made no promises about Jeff Fisher's future with the franchise beyond this season. Fisher, now in his 15th season at the helm of the Titans, is under contract through 2011.

"If we end up losing every game or don't look better, I'd have to look at that pretty hard, you know what I mean?'' Adams said during a telephone interview Sunday night. "The way it is going, I don't know if we'll win any games, and that is unheard of in the National Football League.

 

LOL at that last part. Um, Lions?

 

Eh, once in the entire history of the NFL is still kind of unheard of.

The 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers say hi.

 

One of my all-time favorite quotes came from that team. Head coach John McKay was asked what he thought of his team's execution, and his response was "I'm in favor of it."

 

Ah yes, the 76 Bucs. Ok, Bud should have said nearly unheard of. Would that make you nitpickers feel better? :wink:

[bukie]

Ah yes, the 76 Bucs. Ok, Bud should have said nearly unheard of. Would that make you nitpickers feel better? :wink:

 

Psh, but how does that make the 1982 Colts, the 1960 Cowboys, the 1942 Lions, the 1943 Cardinals, or the 1944 Carpets feel? :)

[dew1679666265]

Ah yes, the 76 Bucs. Ok, Bud should have said nearly unheard of. Would that make you nitpickers feel better? :wink:

 

Psh, but how does that make the 1982 Colts, the 1960 Cowboys, the 1942 Lions, the 1943 Cardinals, or the 1944 Carpets feel? :)

 

If a team is named the Carpets, it should go winless. So there. [-(

[Soul]

Teams will adjust to Orton and what McDaniels is doing. It's not like Brady kept tearing up the league after his 2007 regular season (Titans aside). He has GREAT personnel around him but a team with a decent secondary can stack the box and will make Orton have to attack downfield to move the football and he'll struggle. I have zero doubt about that.

 

Brady's 2007 was a historically great season. Anybody who expected him to repeat that is an idiot. He's also coming back from a knee injury and before the first game of this year, hadn't played in a real game (not preseason) since the Super Bowl loss to the Giants. The odds of him stepping back in and throwing for 300 yards and three TD's week in and week out right away were slim.

 

Teams had already started to adjust to Brady in the 2007 season (e.g. the playoffs). It's not a knock on him it's just that teams learn how to defend things that terrorize the league.

 

Now Orton is nowhere near the caliber of QB that Brady is but he'll fall from this level of performance. He's simply not that good a quarterback to maintain a 100+ passer rating. Remember when Grossman was lighting up the league in the first half of 2006? Orton has a much better cast around him now but he'll slip.

 

So far the only game he's had to play catch up in was a miraculous fluke. His team simply hasn't given up points in the 2nd half of games this year and is denying an ungodly amount of 3rd down conversions. That stuff isn't sustainable. At some point Orton will have to perform coming from behind or will meet a team that can force him to attack downfield for an entire game. Denver could scrape by because of their D and running game but he's still not going to WIN the game for you in that situation.

 

I guess my point is that Denver hasn't been in a situation where they absolutely had to be explosive in the passing game.

 

Just as big a story for me is -- how the hell did they turn around that defense so damn quick? That D is holding teams down, putting tons of pressure on the QB, just flat out getting it done. One year ago they were like a screen door against air.

 

That's an amazing job of scheme/coaching right there. I'm happy for Orton too though.