Cards/A's discussing Holliday (Done)

[rawaction]

FWIW, though Holliday has raked in Busch. He has poor numbers in Wrigley, Minute Maid, GABP, and PNC. He has hit well in Milwaukee though.

[Keener98]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

[Gingerballs Lives]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

I believe that they do.

[NonProfitCow]

A Cardinals friend buddy of mine was discussing this yesterday with me, and I told him I thought it was pretty much 50/50 whether Wallace for Holliday would be a good idea for the Cardinals.

 

I like Wallace a lot as a prospect, even with no real defensive position. But they just can't afford to waste Albert Pujols' prime seasons.

 

I've seen some ripping on Lugo in this thread, but he's an upgrade. The Cardinals have gotten this far with some awful black holes this season, and filling them at all gives them a big boost:

 

LF .212 .294 .342

SS .249 .308 .354

3b .220 .291 .358

 

 

Who is Lugo an upgrade of? Brendon Ryan can run circles around Lugo defensively, and has hit better than Lugo this year as well. Lugo isnt better than Skip. The only person I can think Lugo is an upgrade of is Thurston, which is really not a big deal.

He'll be a good platoon partner at 2nd base. Schumaker has an OPS below .600 vs LHP.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Who is Lugo an upgrade of? Brendon Ryan can run circles around Lugo defensively, and has hit better than Lugo this year as well. Lugo isnt better than Skip. The only person I can think Lugo is an upgrade of is Thurston, which is really not a big deal.

 

He has not outhit Lugo this year.

 

Julio Lugo .284 .352 .367

Brendan Ryan this year .275 .313 .367

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

 

Then this is a pretty good trade.

[NonProfitCow]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

 

Then this is a pretty good trade.

Yep, 1st rounder of the signing team and a supplemental pick.

[Keener98]

Who is Lugo an upgrade of? Brendon Ryan can run circles around Lugo defensively, and has hit better than Lugo this year as well. Lugo isnt better than Skip. The only person I can think Lugo is an upgrade of is Thurston, which is really not a big deal.

 

He has not outhit Lugo this year.

 

Julio Lugo .284 .352 .367

Brendan Ryan this year .275 .313 .367

 

They are pretty close offensively that Ryans D makes up for the little bit of advantage Lugo has so far offensively this year.

[Keener98]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

 

Then this is a pretty good trade.

 

We will see though. Those picks more than likely are at least 4-5 years away from the majors, and if Holliday leaves they have quite a few holes to fill next year. Add in the fact that Pujols contract is up soon, having a guy like Wallace under the teams control for the years ahead, and cheap would help big time.

 

When is Wainwright up for free agency? Ludwick? Yadi?

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I keep losing track of this rule. Do the Cardinals get compensation picks if they offer him arbitration and he leaves?

 

 

2 1st rounders I believe

 

Then this is a pretty good trade.

 

We will see though. Those picks more than likely are at least 4-5 years away from the majors, and if Holliday leaves they have quite a few holes to fill next year. Add in the fact that Pujols contract is up soon, having a guy like Wallace under the teams control for the years ahead, and cheap would help big time.

 

When is Wainwright up for free agency? Ludwick? Yadi?

 

 

Wallace is a 1B/DH type with questionable power who was blocked by Pujols.

 

Sometimes you have to push your chips in and go for it.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Who is Lugo an upgrade of? Brendon Ryan can run circles around Lugo defensively, and has hit better than Lugo this year as well. Lugo isnt better than Skip. The only person I can think Lugo is an upgrade of is Thurston, which is really not a big deal.

 

He has not outhit Lugo this year.

 

Julio Lugo .284 .352 .367

Brendan Ryan this year .275 .313 .367

 

They are pretty close offensively that Ryans D makes up for the little bit of advantage Lugo has so far offensively this year.

 

40 points of OBP is not a "little bit of offense."

[NonProfitCow]

Who is Lugo an upgrade of? Brendon Ryan can run circles around Lugo defensively, and has hit better than Lugo this year as well. Lugo isnt better than Skip. The only person I can think Lugo is an upgrade of is Thurston, which is really not a big deal.

 

He has not outhit Lugo this year.

 

Julio Lugo .284 .352 .367

Brendan Ryan this year .275 .313 .367

 

They are pretty close offensively that Ryans D makes up for the little bit of advantage Lugo has so far offensively this year.

 

40 points of OBP is not a "little bit of offense."

Brendan Ryan's D more than makes up for that difference. He's been flat out incredible this year and Lugo has been about as bad as it gets.

[Keener98]

A 719 OPS in 100 at bats with horrible D vs a 680 OPS in 200 at bats with good D is pretty equal. Lugo is about 20 points higher in OBP this year than his career. Its crap for crap. The last 2 years Lugo has had OPS of 640 and 680, so hes outproducing his last 2 years so far, how long will that last?

[sweetpeteman]

I'm not as worried about Holliday after looking at his stats this year. He's lost over 100 OPS points from the three year average 06-08 (.979 to .831) with most of the loss coming in power. Now getting out of Oakland should help, right?

 

Except 7 of his 11 homers have come at home (home OPS .877, SLG .497). In fact, his road OPS (46 games, 204 PA) is .788 (SLG .416).

 

Yeah, he should rebound moving to a better park in a division that has more hitters parks and no safeco and not playing in Oakland, but also consider this. His career Home/Road splits are a 1.047 Home OPS and a .801 Rd OPS.

 

 

Now he has had a "hot" July... or I should say one game against the Twins, where he went 4-5 with 2Hr and 2Db. Without that game, he is batting:

 

BA .301

OBP .362

SLG .428

OPS .790

 

with 5 Doubles and 1 Hr for July.

 

 

 

Of course, he is going to St Louis, so he will be batting .350 with a 1.000 OPS soon anyways.

Edited July 24, 2009 by sweetpeteman

[Tracer Bullet]

FWIW - Joe Sheehan thinks Holliday means a difference of fewer than 2 wins for the Cards down the stretch.

[UK1679666180]

It's a good deal for the Cards and along with Derosa puts them as the leading candidate to win the NLC.

[SouthSideRyan]

A Cardinals friend buddy of mine was discussing this yesterday with me, and I told him I thought it was pretty much 50/50 whether Wallace for Holliday would be a good idea for the Cardinals.

 

I like Wallace a lot as a prospect, even with no real defensive position. But they just can't afford to waste Albert Pujols' prime seasons.

 

I've seen some ripping on Lugo in this thread, but he's an upgrade. The Cardinals have gotten this far with some awful black holes this season, and filling them at all gives them a big boost:

 

LF .212 .294 .342

SS .249 .308 .354

3b .220 .291 .358

 

Who is Lugo an upgrade of? Brendon Ryan can run circles around Lugo defensively, and has hit better than Lugo this year as well. Lugo isnt better than Skip. The only person I can think Lugo is an upgrade of is Thurston, which is really not a big deal.

 

Seriously Julio Lugo gives everything back on defense. And his offense isn't even that good.

Edited July 24, 2009 by SouthSideRyan

[LillyFan]

And this season is OVAH.

[Butterscup1679666578]

It's a good deal for the Cards and along with Derosa puts them as the leading candidate to win the NLC.

 

This is how I see it. Clear favorites, but anything but a lock.

[SouthSideRyan]

I see the Cubs as even with the Cards now when factoring in the 1.5 game lead.

[SouthSideRyan]

And I think Billy Beane has lost his touch. Brett Wallace cannot play 3B.

[Keener98]

I see the Cubs as even with the Cards now when factoring in the 1.5 game lead.

 

Yea thats how I see it also. IF our offense is hitting to their career norms, I still like our offense better, and our pitching is better. If anything this pulls the Cards closer to the Cubs, but doesnt come close to giving them the division.

[wolf stansson]

And I think Billy Beane has lost his touch. Brett Wallace cannot play 3B.

He loves our DH prospects.

[LillyFan]

The Cubs will surely add a George Sherill or a Greg Zaun. That should put us over the top.

[Post Count Padder]

Fantastic