Ramirez Injury Thread

[Vanilla Ice]

not sure how to do a screen shot, but this is fail by ESPN:

 

http://games.espn.go.com/frontpage/baseball

I was coming to post this, too.

 

They have since changed it back to Fukudome, though.

[E.J.]

what did it used to say?

[Vanilla Ice]

Something like

 

Aramis Ramirez, finally healthy, is leading the Cubs in batting average this year.

 

It also was changed to that after he hurt his shoulder

[TruffleShuffle]

Something like

 

Aramis Ramirez, finally healthy, is leading the Cubs in batting average this year.

 

It also was changed to that after he hurt his shoulder

 

yeah it mentioned something about the cubs hitting better at home than on the road, and they have a homestand coming up, so you'll want him in your lineup this week.

[17 Seconds]

Bruce Levine said this yesterday-

 

Ramirez was still waiting late Saturday afternoon for results on other tests that included a CT scan of the dislocated shoulder. A CT scan is a computerized tomography where a computer is used to decode X-rays that are passed through the body to produce a cross-sectional or a three-dimensional image. CT scans are useful in visualizing bony structures or any protruding broken bones. In Ramirez's case, doctors are checking to see if there are any fractures in the area where the shoulder is dislocated.

 

If a fracture is detected, Ramirez is likely to opt for surgery to repair the damaged shoulder.

 

Why haven't we heard anything about those results yet? It's weird that there's nothing about Ramirez at all on cubs.com

[E.J.]

Bruce Levine said this yesterday-

 

Ramirez was still waiting late Saturday afternoon for results on other tests that included a CT scan of the dislocated shoulder. A CT scan is a computerized tomography where a computer is used to decode X-rays that are passed through the body to produce a cross-sectional or a three-dimensional image. CT scans are useful in visualizing bony structures or any protruding broken bones. In Ramirez's case, doctors are checking to see if there are any fractures in the area where the shoulder is dislocated.

 

If a fracture is detected, Ramirez is likely to opt for surgery to repair the damaged shoulder.

 

Why haven't we heard anything about those results yet? It's weird that there's nothing about Ramirez at all on cubs.com

 

cubs.com said today that there was no structural damage.

[17 Seconds]

Yeah but that was in reference to the MRI, right? Levine is talking about a different test on the bone on Saturday afternoon. I haven't heard anything about that test yet.

[Tracer Bullet]

what did it used to say?

 

it's back to ARam's picture, at least sometimes, with the following caption:

 

Aramis Ramirez, the Cubs' leader in batting average, is healthy again.

[Vanilla Ice]

http://i44.tinypic.com/oge1qo.jpg

[Soul]

Well, everything I'm hearing now is saying 3 weeks in a sling, then begin rehab. To me that means no surgery.

 

So I don't know. I feel like I can't trust injury reports or timelines, not even a little bit. It's almost better to simply ignore them. He'll be back when he's healthy again, and we have to figure out how to hold this thing together without him.

[JGalt73]

Will Carroll weighs in with some technical speculation on a longer recovery...

 

The Cubs have lost Ramirez for what they say will be a four- to six-week period, but let's take a look at the injury and see why I think it will be more. On first glance, the dive doesn't look like much, but it's one of those incidents where the wrong force applied in the wrong direction pushed the head of the humerus completely out of the "cup" of the glenoid fossa. Not only that, but it stayed out, requiring it to be reduced (popped back in) by a Brewers physician. That's not a good thing. With the video and multiple angles, we also know exactly how the head popped out. The force was up and back, almost at a 45-degree angle. If you watch the motion of his humerus as he lands on it, it's impossible not to see it, and given that motion, several people who I spoke with worried that he would have Bankart lesion, a type of shoulder defect that can not only be problematic to fix, but can cause further dislocations. Ramirez did have a similar type of injury, then called a separation, that may have predisposed him to this, though he's made similar plays on hundreds of occasions, I'm sure. It was simply the wrong force at the wrong time. It's not the dislocation itself, but the possible (probable?) internal damage caused by moving the humeral head out of place that has me thinking that this is going to go around the six- to eight-week mark, and even more if surgery is necessary.

[jersey cubs fan]

I have a hard time believing 4 weeks is at all reasonable. And it seems to me that such an injury for such a player whose entire game is dependent on an extremely violent swing, is going to need a lot of time to get back. I feel like we might be lucky to see him performing well before August. I really hope they don't rush him back. A deteriorating condition for him with his contract could kill this team's chances going forward.

[dew1679666265]

I have a hard time believing 4 weeks is at all reasonable. And it seems to me that such an injury for such a player whose entire game is dependent on an extremely violent swing, is going to need a lot of time to get back. I feel like we might be lucky to see him performing well before August. I really hope they don't rush him back. A deteriorating condition for him with his contract could kill this team's chances going forward.

 

He's only signed through next year, so if it were a condition that hampered him long term his contract would only be an issue in 2010.

[jersey cubs fan]

I have a hard time believing 4 weeks is at all reasonable. And it seems to me that such an injury for such a player whose entire game is dependent on an extremely violent swing, is going to need a lot of time to get back. I feel like we might be lucky to see him performing well before August. I really hope they don't rush him back. A deteriorating condition for him with his contract could kill this team's chances going forward.

 

He's only signed through next year, so if it were a condition that hampered him long term his contract would only be an issue in 2010.

 

I thought he had a player option for 2011. He gets to void the deal after next year if he wants. If he's banged up, he's not going to let the Cubs off the hook for money they owe him (including the 2012 buyout).

[David]

Isn't it a mutual option after 2011 for Aramis?

[jersey cubs fan]

Isn't it a mutual option after 2011 for Aramis?

 

According to Cots he can opt out after 2010. If he does not, the Cubs owe him for 2011, and then have a team option for 2012, or $2m buyout.

[Soul]

Will Carroll weighs in with some technical speculation on a longer recovery...

 

The Cubs have lost Ramirez for what they say will be a four- to six-week period, but let's take a look at the injury and see why I think it will be more. On first glance, the dive doesn't look like much, but it's one of those incidents where the wrong force applied in the wrong direction pushed the head of the humerus completely out of the "cup" of the glenoid fossa. Not only that, but it stayed out, requiring it to be reduced (popped back in) by a Brewers physician. That's not a good thing. With the video and multiple angles, we also know exactly how the head popped out. The force was up and back, almost at a 45-degree angle. If you watch the motion of his humerus as he lands on it, it's impossible not to see it, and given that motion, several people who I spoke with worried that he would have Bankart lesion, a type of shoulder defect that can not only be problematic to fix, but can cause further dislocations. Ramirez did have a similar type of injury, then called a separation, that may have predisposed him to this, though he's made similar plays on hundreds of occasions, I'm sure. It was simply the wrong force at the wrong time. It's not the dislocation itself, but the possible (probable?) internal damage caused by moving the humeral head out of place that has me thinking that this is going to go around the six- to eight-week mark, and even more if surgery is necessary.

 

Is Carroll a doctor? Because this statement seems a bit far-reaching for him unless he's got a medical degree and has treated this type of injury himself.

[NCCubFan]

Is Carroll a doctor?

No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

[wade]

Is Carroll a doctor?

No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

 

No doctor, but for a living he talks to those that know these types of things so he can report on them. From personal experience, he's seems right. The more the shoulder moves out of the 'cup' the more likely it is to do so again and again. That said, Ramirez's is the non-throwing shoulder and that's the good news. How it effects the swing as the 'lead' shoulder my personal experience can't answer, as it was not that way with me.

[mul21]

Bankart lesion = labrum problem. Speaking from experience, this is going to be an ongoing problem until he gets it fixed surgically. Let's hope Carroll is wrong, but even if he's not, I have a hard time believing it'll be less than 8 weeks.

[wade]

Bankart lesion = labrum problem. Speaking from experience, this is going to be an ongoing problem until he gets it fixed surgically. Let's hope Carroll is wrong, but even if he's not, I have a hard time believing it'll be less than 8 weeks.

 

I'm hoping he can come back and finish the season. I think off-season surgery to tighten the labrum will def. happen even if he can. They have a way or two that still leaves full range of motion.

[The Other 15]

Another Cubs Blog estimates the Cubs lose about 1 win by replacing Ramirez with Freel for about 6 weeks. It's a bit more considering Miles gets a few more PA's, and there's the risk that Ramirez drops off a bit when he comes back or takes longer than 6 weeks. Still, losing even 3 games because of the injury isn't the end of the world, though it definitely removes a lot of the margin for error with other injuries and underperformance.

How robotish does one have to be to believe all these versions of win shares? Any science that has Freel as one game less than Armais over 6 weeks is flawed beyond belief.

[Sammy Sofa]

I've just been assuming 2 months since the 4-6 weeks talk started. I'd actually prefer 2 months given the nature of the injury.

[The Other 15]

Losing Aramis is a big blow. But quite honestly, with or without Aramis, if they cannot find anyone other than Marmol to get people out late in games it will not matter who plays 3B.

 

Even when he's good, Gooz is still giving up runs. Patton has the stuff, but appears ill at ease on the mound. This isn't the time to worry about weather or not Colorado will want him back. If Lou's not going to use him, talented or not, he needs to go. If they're that much into projects, give Stevens a look. Cotts is unreliable for late innings even as a loog. Fox? Well, I suppose it wouldn't be a season without Fox making useless appearances. Just wish it was in a Pirates uniform.

 

Forget Aramis and target a couple of relievers or shake things up if Wells is pitching adequately by the time Z returns and move Marshall to the pen (he gets people out in any role) and keep Wells starting.

 

Something needs to be done. That's the biggest hole on the team, not Aramis. Bradley and Lee will eventually hit close to their averages. Soto and Font should improve from where they are at. The offense should be decent even without Aramis, but who cares if leads can not be protected.

 

The reason for there to be more worry about Aramis than the bullpen is because it's far easier to patch together a decent bullpen than it is to find a very productive third baseman. We all expect Bradley, Lee, Soto, etc. to start hitting closer to their career norms, but what if two of those three don't?

 

There's ample reason to believe that Soto and Lee won't get back to what we expected and without Aramis, the offense isn't nearly as imposing as it once was.

Yeah, it's real easy to patch together a good bullpen. That's why there are so many good ones in baseball.

 

The point is, you can bemoan Aramis' loss all you want, but a bad bullpen has been giving away leads even while he was playing. You can't do anything about Aramis, but you can try to address the bullpen. It won't replace Aram, but a bullpen that does the job will make the hurt much smaller.

[dew1679666265]

Isn't it a mutual option after 2011 for Aramis?

 

According to Cots he can opt out after 2010. If he does not, the Cubs owe him for 2011, and then have a team option for 2012, or $2m buyout.

 

Ah, sorry. I was going off memory when I should have checked Cot's. At least I was right that something significant happened with his contract after 2010. :)