Lous a freaking idiot Part 2 2009 season

[apete6]

Soooo nobody's gonna mention Wells getting Dustied out of the game after his AB?

 

Actually that wasn't a terrible move. Keeping Wells in forced Cox to play his hand with the pinch hitter, essentially burning Gregor Blanco without him batting. Lou then put in Marshall with a run of lefties coming up and Marshall go the job done.

 

If you're going to complain about that move, complain because of Lou's love of using Marshall as a LOOGY rather than him pulling Wells.

[nolanwood]

Soooo nobody's gonna mention Wells getting Dustied out of the game after his AB?

 

Actually that wasn't a terrible move. Keeping Wells in forced Cox to play his hand with the pinch hitter, essentially burning Gregor Blanco without him batting. Lou then put in Marshall with a run of lefties coming up and Marshall go the job done.

 

If you're going to complain about that move, complain because of Lou's love of using Marshall as a LOOGY rather than him pulling Wells.

 

Agreed. I actually liked that move...

[Tracer Bullet]

Soooo nobody's gonna mention Wells getting Dustied out of the game after his AB?

 

Actually that wasn't a terrible move. Keeping Wells in forced Cox to play his hand with the pinch hitter, essentially burning Gregor Blanco without him batting. Lou then put in Marshall with a run of lefties coming up and Marshall go the job done.

 

If you're going to complain about that move, complain because of Lou's love of using Marshall as a LOOGY rather than him pulling Wells.

 

Why? Marshall, for his career, isn't so bad against RH hitters that he can't get a righty out. I'd much rather let a good hitter hit for Wells than worry about who Marshall was going to face to start the 7th.

[CubColtPacer]

Soooo nobody's gonna mention Wells getting Dustied out of the game after his AB?

 

Actually that wasn't a terrible move. Keeping Wells in forced Cox to play his hand with the pinch hitter, essentially burning Gregor Blanco without him batting. Lou then put in Marshall with a run of lefties coming up and Marshall go the job done.

 

If you're going to complain about that move, complain because of Lou's love of using Marshall as a LOOGY rather than him pulling Wells.

 

Why? Marshall, for his career, isn't so bad against RH hitters that he can't get a righty out. I'd much rather let a good hitter hit for Wells than worry about who Marshall was going to face to start the 7th.

 

Wells came up with two outs and nobody on. It wasn't exactly a great run-scoring situation. At that point with the lead, making them both burn an extra pinch-hitter and saving the pinch-hitters for your team is more helpful than sending a pinch-hitter to the plate to try to start a 2 out rally. It at least is a close decision.

[Tracer Bullet]

Soooo nobody's gonna mention Wells getting Dustied out of the game after his AB?

 

Actually that wasn't a terrible move. Keeping Wells in forced Cox to play his hand with the pinch hitter, essentially burning Gregor Blanco without him batting. Lou then put in Marshall with a run of lefties coming up and Marshall go the job done.

 

If you're going to complain about that move, complain because of Lou's love of using Marshall as a LOOGY rather than him pulling Wells.

 

Why? Marshall, for his career, isn't so bad against RH hitters that he can't get a righty out. I'd much rather let a good hitter hit for Wells than worry about who Marshall was going to face to start the 7th.

 

Wells came up with two outs and nobody on. It wasn't exactly a great run-scoring situation. At that point with the lead, making them both burn an extra pinch-hitter and saving the pinch-hitters for your team is more helpful than sending a pinch-hitter to the plate to try to start a 2 out rally. It at least is a close decision.

 

Wait, I'm confused. Is having Gregor Blanco "burned" a good thing for the Cubs or a bad thing? I'd rather have Gregor Blanco hit against anyone than Francoeur hit against a LHP.

 

In addition, the Cubs have at least 2 guys on the bench that can put a run on the board with one swing pretty easily. It's not going to happen frequently, but I like the chances of Fox or Hoff getting a hit, or maybe even a double and getting driven in by Fukudome or Theriot more than letting Wells hit and get pulled to start the next inning. Even if Lou had left Wells in just to face Blanco that would have made more sense to me. But there were only 2, 3 if necessary, more innings the Cubs were going to come to the plate, we have 6 hitters on the bench, and who else were we really going to PH for in the lineup: Fukudome, if they bring in a LHP (hello, Reed Johnson), Fontenot if we got to the 8th spot? There just wasn't a need to save the 6 bench guys and give up an out that late in a 2-run game.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soooo nobody's gonna mention Wells getting Dustied out of the game after his AB?

 

Actually that wasn't a terrible move. Keeping Wells in forced Cox to play his hand with the pinch hitter, essentially burning Gregor Blanco without him batting. Lou then put in Marshall with a run of lefties coming up and Marshall go the job done.

 

If you're going to complain about that move, complain because of Lou's love of using Marshall as a LOOGY rather than him pulling Wells.

 

Why? Marshall, for his career, isn't so bad against RH hitters that he can't get a righty out. I'd much rather let a good hitter hit for Wells than worry about who Marshall was going to face to start the 7th.

 

Wells came up with two outs and nobody on. It wasn't exactly a great run-scoring situation. At that point with the lead, making them both burn an extra pinch-hitter and saving the pinch-hitters for your team is more helpful than sending a pinch-hitter to the plate to try to start a 2 out rally. It at least is a close decision.

 

Wait, I'm confused. Is having Gregor Blanco "burned" a good thing for the Cubs or a bad thing? I'd rather have Gregor Blanco hit against anyone than Francoeur hit against a LHP.

 

In addition, the Cubs have at least 2 guys on the bench that can put a run on the board with one swing pretty easily. It's not going to happen frequently, but I like the chances of Fox or Hoff getting a hit, or maybe even a double and getting driven in by Fukudome or Theriot more than letting Wells hit and get pulled to start the next inning. Even if Lou had left Wells in just to face Blanco that would have made more sense to me. But there were only 2, 3 if necessary, more innings the Cubs were going to come to the plate, we have 6 hitters on the bench, and who else were we really going to PH for in the lineup: Fukudome, if they bring in a LHP (hello, Reed Johnson), Fontenot if we got to the 8th spot? There just wasn't a need to save the 6 bench guys and give up an out that late in a 2-run game.

 

I think saving your bench guys for better situations than 2 out nobody on and forcing Cox to burn 2 of his bench guys is at least arguably as good as just going ahead and pinch hitting there.

[apete6]

 

Wait, I'm confused. Is having Gregor Blanco "burned" a good thing for the Cubs or a bad thing? I'd rather have Gregor Blanco hit against anyone than Francoeur hit against a LHP.

 

In addition, the Cubs have at least 2 guys on the bench that can put a run on the board with one swing pretty easily. It's not going to happen frequently, but I like the chances of Fox or Hoff getting a hit, or maybe even a double and getting driven in by Fukudome or Theriot more than letting Wells hit and get pulled to start the next inning. Even if Lou had left Wells in just to face Blanco that would have made more sense to me. But there were only 2, 3 if necessary, more innings the Cubs were going to come to the plate, we have 6 hitters on the bench, and who else were we really going to PH for in the lineup: Fukudome, if they bring in a LHP (hello, Reed Johnson), Fontenot if we got to the 8th spot? There just wasn't a need to save the 6 bench guys and give up an out that late in a 2-run game.

 

I think saving your bench guys for better situations than 2 out nobody on and forcing Cox to burn 2 of his bench guys is at least arguably as good as just going ahead and pinch hitting there.

 

Agreed. If Gregg would have blown that game, we would have had a full complement of bench guys to pinch hit, pinch run, double switch, and whatnot. If we were only up by 1 run, then, ya, a solo HR would have made a big difference, but with a 2 run lead, I think Lou actually made a decent non-move.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

Wait, I'm confused. Is having Gregor Blanco "burned" a good thing for the Cubs or a bad thing? I'd rather have Gregor Blanco hit against anyone than Francoeur hit against a LHP.

 

In addition, the Cubs have at least 2 guys on the bench that can put a run on the board with one swing pretty easily. It's not going to happen frequently, but I like the chances of Fox or Hoff getting a hit, or maybe even a double and getting driven in by Fukudome or Theriot more than letting Wells hit and get pulled to start the next inning. Even if Lou had left Wells in just to face Blanco that would have made more sense to me. But there were only 2, 3 if necessary, more innings the Cubs were going to come to the plate, we have 6 hitters on the bench, and who else were we really going to PH for in the lineup: Fukudome, if they bring in a LHP (hello, Reed Johnson), Fontenot if we got to the 8th spot? There just wasn't a need to save the 6 bench guys and give up an out that late in a 2-run game.

 

I think saving your bench guys for better situations than 2 out nobody on and forcing Cox to burn 2 of his bench guys is at least arguably as good as just going ahead and pinch hitting there.

 

Agreed. If Gregg would have blown that game, we would have had a full complement of bench guys to pinch hit, pinch run, double switch, and whatnot. If we were only up by 1 run, then, ya, a solo HR would have made a big difference, but with a 2 run lead, I think Lou actually made a decent non-move.

 

We'd rather give up an out in a 2-run game on the off chance that we blow the lead and also need 6 bench guys in the remainder of the game, then try to add to the lead when you're taking the pitcher out right away anyway?

 

As I said, if Lou had left Wells in because Wells on 87 pitches v. Blanco is better than Marshall v. Francoeur, fine. That makes some sense to me. But giving up an out to save all 6 bench guys with a 2-run lead is pretty dumb. We weren't starting the getaway day lineup. All the regulars started. So other than Fontenot (and maybe Fukudome) against a LHP, you're not taking any of the starters out for a PH. So you're worried about having to use Baker for Fontenot and the lineup coming around to the pitcher 4/5 more times from the 7th inning on? I don't like to hold my bench of the off chance we blow a 2-run lead in 3 innings and end up in a 20-inning marathon.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Wait, I'm confused. Is having Gregor Blanco "burned" a good thing for the Cubs or a bad thing? I'd rather have Gregor Blanco hit against anyone than Francoeur hit against a LHP.

 

In addition, the Cubs have at least 2 guys on the bench that can put a run on the board with one swing pretty easily. It's not going to happen frequently, but I like the chances of Fox or Hoff getting a hit, or maybe even a double and getting driven in by Fukudome or Theriot more than letting Wells hit and get pulled to start the next inning. Even if Lou had left Wells in just to face Blanco that would have made more sense to me. But there were only 2, 3 if necessary, more innings the Cubs were going to come to the plate, we have 6 hitters on the bench, and who else were we really going to PH for in the lineup: Fukudome, if they bring in a LHP (hello, Reed Johnson), Fontenot if we got to the 8th spot? There just wasn't a need to save the 6 bench guys and give up an out that late in a 2-run game.

 

I think saving your bench guys for better situations than 2 out nobody on and forcing Cox to burn 2 of his bench guys is at least arguably as good as just going ahead and pinch hitting there.

 

Agreed. If Gregg would have blown that game, we would have had a full complement of bench guys to pinch hit, pinch run, double switch, and whatnot. If we were only up by 1 run, then, ya, a solo HR would have made a big difference, but with a 2 run lead, I think Lou actually made a decent non-move.

 

We'd rather give up an out in a 2-run game on the off chance that we blow the lead and also need 6 bench guys in the remainder of the game, then try to add to the lead when you're taking the pitcher out right away anyway?

 

As I said, if Lou had left Wells in because Wells on 87 pitches v. Blanco is better than Marshall v. Francoeur, fine. That makes some sense to me. But giving up an out to save all 6 bench guys with a 2-run lead is pretty dumb. We weren't starting the getaway day lineup. All the regulars started. So other than Fontenot (and maybe Fukudome) against a LHP, you're not taking any of the starters out for a PH. So you're worried about having to use Baker for Fontenot and the lineup coming around to the pitcher 4/5 more times from the 7th inning on? I don't like to hold my bench of the off chance we blow a 2-run lead in 3 innings and end up in a 20-inning marathon.

 

Scoring after a 2 out nobody on situation using a pinch hitter might be as much of an "off chance" as blowing a 2-run lead. And it forced the other team to use 2 pinch hitters. Had their been a man on and the same thing occured, I'd be upset with the decision. But from what I recall they appeared ready to use a PH if somebody got on base.

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Wait, I'm confused. Is having Gregor Blanco "burned" a good thing for the Cubs or a bad thing? I'd rather have Gregor Blanco hit against anyone than Francoeur hit against a LHP.

 

In addition, the Cubs have at least 2 guys on the bench that can put a run on the board with one swing pretty easily. It's not going to happen frequently, but I like the chances of Fox or Hoff getting a hit, or maybe even a double and getting driven in by Fukudome or Theriot more than letting Wells hit and get pulled to start the next inning. Even if Lou had left Wells in just to face Blanco that would have made more sense to me. But there were only 2, 3 if necessary, more innings the Cubs were going to come to the plate, we have 6 hitters on the bench, and who else were we really going to PH for in the lineup: Fukudome, if they bring in a LHP (hello, Reed Johnson), Fontenot if we got to the 8th spot? There just wasn't a need to save the 6 bench guys and give up an out that late in a 2-run game.

 

I think saving your bench guys for better situations than 2 out nobody on and forcing Cox to burn 2 of his bench guys is at least arguably as good as just going ahead and pinch hitting there.

 

Agreed. If Gregg would have blown that game, we would have had a full complement of bench guys to pinch hit, pinch run, double switch, and whatnot. If we were only up by 1 run, then, ya, a solo HR would have made a big difference, but with a 2 run lead, I think Lou actually made a decent non-move.

 

We'd rather give up an out in a 2-run game on the off chance that we blow the lead and also need 6 bench guys in the remainder of the game, then try to add to the lead when you're taking the pitcher out right away anyway?

 

As I said, if Lou had left Wells in because Wells on 87 pitches v. Blanco is better than Marshall v. Francoeur, fine. That makes some sense to me. But giving up an out to save all 6 bench guys with a 2-run lead is pretty dumb. We weren't starting the getaway day lineup. All the regulars started. So other than Fontenot (and maybe Fukudome) against a LHP, you're not taking any of the starters out for a PH. So you're worried about having to use Baker for Fontenot and the lineup coming around to the pitcher 4/5 more times from the 7th inning on? I don't like to hold my bench of the off chance we blow a 2-run lead in 3 innings and end up in a 20-inning marathon.

 

Scoring after a 2 out nobody on situation using a pinch hitter might be as much of an "off chance" as blowing a 2-run lead. And it forced the other team to use 2 pinch hitters. Had their been a man on and the same thing occured, I'd be upset with the decision. But from what I recall they appeared ready to use a PH if somebody got on base.

 

Are you just completely ignoring the details of the situation? We had 6 guys on the bench with the pitcher's spot not likely to come up in regulation an very unlikely to come up more than 2 times even if the game went into extras. What were they saving those guys for? Why were you so upset at the Cubs for carrying 12 pitchers if they're going to save 5 PHs for extra innings when we're up 2 with 3 to play? You don't PH there is you have a short bench. With 6 guys, it makes no sense not to.

[jersey cubs fan]

Are you just completely ignoring the details of the situation? We had 6 guys on the bench with the pitcher's spot not likely to come up in regulation an very unlikely to come up more than 2 times even if the game went into extras. What were they saving those guys for? Why were you so upset at the Cubs for carrying 12 pitchers if they're going to save 5 PHs for extra innings when we're up 2 with 3 to play? You don't PH there is you have a short bench. With 6 guys, it makes no sense not to.

 

I'm not ignoring anything. I believe the point of the move was getting the Braves to burn through their bench quicker moreso than saving the Cubs bench. Had Wells hit for himself, but never went out to the mound, yes, that's pretty stupid. But that isn't what happened. I take issues with much of what these guys do, but I don't see the point here.

[Tracer Bullet]

Are you just completely ignoring the details of the situation? We had 6 guys on the bench with the pitcher's spot not likely to come up in regulation an very unlikely to come up more than 2 times even if the game went into extras. What were they saving those guys for? Why were you so upset at the Cubs for carrying 12 pitchers if they're going to save 5 PHs for extra innings when we're up 2 with 3 to play? You don't PH there is you have a short bench. With 6 guys, it makes no sense not to.

 

I'm not ignoring anything. I believe the point of the move was getting the Braves to burn through their bench quicker moreso than saving the Cubs bench. Had Wells hit for himself, but never went out to the mound, yes, that's pretty stupid. But that isn't what happened. I take issues with much of what these guys do, but I don't see the point here.

 

If the point is to get to face Jeff Francoeur rather than Gregor Blanco, than the move is even more stupid than it was. Once you see Blanco step into the box, you don't let him leave.

[Tomarken]

Francoeur is only a slightly better hitter than Blanco

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Francoeur is only a slightly better hitter than Blanco

 

Over 100 points of OPS difference (Franco v LHP - Blanco v RHP). And Blanco has 1 career HR, so the chance of him getting lucky and parking one was pretty low.

[jersey cubs fan]

Francoeur is only a slightly better hitter than Blanco

 

Over 100 points of OPS difference (Franco v LHP - Blanco v RHP). And Blanco has 1 career HR, so the chance of him getting lucky and parking one was pretty low.

 

A solo HR wouldn't have exactly killed the Cubs there.

[SouthSideRyan]

Francoeur is only a slightly better hitter than Blanco

 

Over 100 points of OPS difference (Franco v LHP - Blanco v RHP). And Blanco has 1 career HR, so the chance of him getting lucky and parking one was pretty low.

 

A solo HR wouldn't have exactly killed the Cubs there.

 

Neither would Gregor Blanco.

[jersey cubs fan]

Francoeur is only a slightly better hitter than Blanco

 

Over 100 points of OPS difference (Franco v LHP - Blanco v RHP). And Blanco has 1 career HR, so the chance of him getting lucky and parking one was pretty low.

 

A solo HR wouldn't have exactly killed the Cubs there.

 

Neither would Gregor Blanco.

 

No, but that's not the point. They were bringing in Marshall. If they wanted to keep Blanco, fine, if they wanted to use both guys, fine. Either way, they benefitted from waiting to pull Wells, and probably would not have benefitted from using a PH.

[Tracer Bullet]

Francoeur is only a slightly better hitter than Blanco

 

Over 100 points of OPS difference (Franco v LHP - Blanco v RHP). And Blanco has 1 career HR, so the chance of him getting lucky and parking one was pretty low.

 

A solo HR wouldn't have exactly killed the Cubs there.

 

Neither would Gregor Blanco.

 

No, but that's not the point. They were bringing in Marshall. If they wanted to keep Blanco, fine, if they wanted to use both guys, fine. Either way, they benefitted from waiting to pull Wells, and probably would not have benefitted from using a PH.

 

This is insane. How do you know the benefited from waiting to pull Wells? What's the benefit of a .500 OPS player not coming to bat for the other team? If Blanco is the first PH against a RHP, I don't want them to waste him. I want him to bat. Besides, Franco, got a hit. Would you rather have Franco on 1B with 0 outs in a 2-run game or 1 out and no one on when McClouth comes up?

 

It also seems like you're suggesting we never PH with 2 outs and no one on because the chance of scoring is so unlikely. I imagine you make an exception for 2 outs in the 9th, at least when we're behind, but probably not if we're tied b/c what if the game goes into extras? We may need those 6 guys. Would you PH in the top of the 9th when we're up by a run or two? What about the 8th? At what point is it no longer waste to use your bench to improve your chances of scoring?

[jersey cubs fan]

This is insane. How do you know the benefited from waiting to pull Wells? What's the benefit of a .500 OPS player not coming to bat for the other team? If Blanco is the first PH against a RHP, I don't want them to waste him. I want him to bat. Besides, Franco, got a hit. Would you rather have Franco on 1B with 0 outs in a 2-run game or 1 out and no one on when McClouth comes up?

 

It also seems like you're suggesting we never PH with 2 outs and no one on because the chance of scoring is so unlikely. I imagine you make an exception for 2 outs in the 9th, at least when we're behind, but probably not if we're tied b/c what if the game goes into extras? We may need those 6 guys. Would you PH in the top of the 9th when we're up by a run or two? What about the 8th? At what point is it no longer waste to use your bench to improve your chances of scoring?

 

You have serious issues. I don't understand why you would get so worked up over this move.

 

The point is there was a little benefit of using a PH there and a little benefit of letting them think Wells was pitching that inning. They more or less cancel each other out. Lou decided to go with the latter option. Personally I'd have probably PH for him there. The point is this wasn't simply a Dusty thing where he clearly just didn't think 2 steps ahead and therefore wasted an opportunity.

 

In all the crappy decisions that the decision makers for this organization have made, this just doesn't register.

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This is insane. How do you know the benefited from waiting to pull Wells? What's the benefit of a .500 OPS player not coming to bat for the other team? If Blanco is the first PH against a RHP, I don't want them to waste him. I want him to bat. Besides, Franco, got a hit. Would you rather have Franco on 1B with 0 outs in a 2-run game or 1 out and no one on when McClouth comes up?

 

It also seems like you're suggesting we never PH with 2 outs and no one on because the chance of scoring is so unlikely. I imagine you make an exception for 2 outs in the 9th, at least when we're behind, but probably not if we're tied b/c what if the game goes into extras? We may need those 6 guys. Would you PH in the top of the 9th when we're up by a run or two? What about the 8th? At what point is it no longer waste to use your bench to improve your chances of scoring?

 

You have serious issues. I don't understand why you would get so worked up over this move.

 

The point is there was a little benefit of using a PH there and a little benefit of letting them think Wells was pitching that inning. They more or less cancel each other out. Lou decided to go with the latter option. Personally I'd have probably PH for him there. The point is this wasn't simply a Dusty thing where he clearly just didn't think 2 steps ahead and therefore wasted an opportunity.

 

In all the crappy decisions that the decision makers for this organization have made, this just doesn't register.

 

I'm not worked up over this move and I don't have serious issues at all, though thanks for your concern. My issue has become your refusal to consider the details of the situation, though the decision is not a good one. It's quite simple. Even for the relatively small increase in the chance to score another run, it's worth using one of your 6 players rather than hold all of them for extra innings. There's also absolutely no benefit to "wasting" Blanco as a pinch hitter. The best outcome for the Cubs would be to have Gregor Blanco come to bat as frequently as possible.

 

What makes the move worse for me is when Blanco came up to bat, Lou, who was going to bring in Marshall, should have allowed Wells to pitch to Blanco. In 3/4 to 4/5 of his ABs against RHP this year he's made an out. Wells throws maybe 5-10 more pitches, still leaves under 100 and Marshal pitches to McClouth with no one on base.

 

By itself, it would be a little consequence, I suppose. But it's just another example of Lou not giving his team the best chance to win.

[jersey cubs fan]

My issue has become your refusal to consider the details of the situation,

 

How can you possibly suggest I'm refusing to consider the details of the situation?

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My issue has become your refusal to consider the details of the situation,

 

How can you possibly suggest I'm refusing to consider the details of the situation?

 

b/c (a) you're suggesting that a tactic that involves a LHP pitching to Franco instead of anyone pitching to Blanco was a benefit to the Cubs in some way. Not having Blanco bat last night did not increase the Cubs chances of winning. Once he walked out of the dugout, the Cubs should have done everything in their power to make him hit (or, much more likely, make an out);

 

and, to a lesser extent, (b) you're suggesting that saving 6 guys for extra innings was better than using a PH for the pitcher in the bottom of the 6th when you're taking the SP out.

[Derwood]

Goony argues with everyone about everything. If you said the sky was blue he'd say it was green. I wouldn't take it personally.

[Schwarber Fan]

Putting Hart in the rotation over Samardzija and Marshall :glare:

[17 Seconds]

I love losing 2-1 games with our 2 best pinch hitters never getting in the game. Good job Lou