Lous a freaking idiot Part 2 2009 season

[17 Seconds]

He seems to only do this with Dempster for some reason. This is at least the third time this season, from what I can remember when Dempster was clearly taxed and was trailing in the game and Lou left him in, each time backfiring. Lou's losing it fast.

 

he definitely does it with zambrano too.

 

yet he does the exact opposite with lilly. he'll pull him early when he's cruising. it makes no sense

[Derwood]

it turns out that it didn't really matter

[Roast]

it turns out that it didn't really matter

Sure it did. If he pulled him for a pinch hitter then maybe we score that inning. Then he wouldnt have come in the following inning and let runners on - who knows if his replacement would have.

 

 

It definitely mattered.

[Derwood]

it turns out that it didn't really matter

Sure it did. If he pulled him for a pinch hitter then maybe we score that inning. Then he wouldnt have come in the following inning and let runners on - who knows if his replacement would have.

 

 

It definitely mattered.

 

I meant giving up the 2nd run

[17 Seconds]

Dempster gave up the second run after he should have been pulled

[Schwarber Fan]

He's saying we still would have lost 1-0.

 

While that's probably true, there's a lot more pressure on Soriano in the 9th with a one run lead and who knows...

[Tracer Bullet]

We know what he's saying. But it assumes a lot of things when we really don't know what would have happened had a PH been used.

[Soul]

That was particularly boneheaded by Lou. What is it with him this year? Is he even paying attention all the time?

[Derwood]

We know what he's saying. But it assumes a lot of things when we really don't know what would have happened had a PH been used.

 

Sure. I'm assuming that the pinch-hitter would have been Miles, who would have not have gotten on-base. A fairly safe bet I think....

 

And to be clear, I'm not defending Lou for leaving Dempster in; it was idiotic considering the pitch count, the heat and humidity, and the score. I'm just saying that in this particular instance, it didn't seem to matter.

[fasttrack21]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

 

Welcome to the Forums !!

[Roast]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

 

I get the two and a half week thing, at least in theory. But at the same time, had he pulled dempster it would have required a whole 3 innings from our bullpen. That's nothing. I could see if Demps was at like 100 pitches in the 5th and he decided to keep him out for the sixth, but not the 7th.

[fasttrack21]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

 

I get the two and a half week thing, at least in theory. But at the same time, had he pulled dempster it would have required a whole 3 innings from our bullpen. That's nothing. I could see if Demps was at like 100 pitches in the 5th and he decided to keep him out for the sixth, but not the 7th.

When the pen has thrown 14.1 innings the last three days, three more innings on the fourth day is certainly something. Again, especially with a long stretch without an off day that started yesterday.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd take Kevin Hart over a gassed Dempster every time.

[Keener98]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

 

I get the two and a half week thing, at least in theory. But at the same time, had he pulled dempster it would have required a whole 3 innings from our bullpen. That's nothing. I could see if Demps was at like 100 pitches in the 5th and he decided to keep him out for the sixth, but not the 7th.

When the pen has thrown 14.1 innings the last three days, three more innings on the fourth day is certainly something. Again, especially with a long stretch without an off day that started yesterday.

 

Kevin Hart was ready and rested, and able to go for a few innings as hes been starting in Iowa. They could always send Hart or Ascanio down to get a fresh arm up, or they could just do the smart thing and quit holding Patton up here.

 

Noway in hell should Demp been allowed to throw that many pitches, in that heat, when he was clearly gassed. Lou is asleep at the wheel this year.

[dew1679666265]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

 

I get the two and a half week thing, at least in theory. But at the same time, had he pulled dempster it would have required a whole 3 innings from our bullpen. That's nothing. I could see if Demps was at like 100 pitches in the 5th and he decided to keep him out for the sixth, but not the 7th.

When the pen has thrown 14.1 innings the last three days, three more innings on the fourth day is certainly something. Again, especially with a long stretch without an off day that started yesterday.

 

Kevin Hart was ready and rested, and able to go for a few innings as hes been starting in Iowa. They could always send Hart or Ascanio down to get a fresh arm up, or they could just do the smart thing and quit holding Patton up here.

 

Noway in hell should Demp been allowed to throw that many pitches, in that heat, when he was clearly gassed. Lou is asleep at the wheel this year.

 

I think the point is, the good arms in the pen were gassed and that left only Hart and Patton as fresh arms (though neither particularly good).

 

His argument appears to be that Lou tried to get one more inning out of Dempster - who had been good - rather than go to one of the last two arms in the pen in a tight game.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the point is, the good arms in the pen were gassed and that left only Hart and Patton as fresh arms (though neither particularly good).

 

His argument appears to be that Lou tried to get one more inning out of Dempster - who had been good - rather than go to one of the last two arms in the pen in a tight game.

 

And the point is that is still a stupid decision. Dempster wasn't great. He wiggled out of a few jams in the middle innings, obviously working his tail off in rough conditions.

[Keener98]

Like SSR, give me a rested and fresh Hart over a completely gassed Demp anyday of the week. Its not like Demp had a stress free night last night, and was lights out. He was in and out of trouble, and his control was off all night. You take the 6 innings 1 run that he gave you, and say thanks nice job, no reason to push him anymore.

[jersey cubs fan]

Like SSR, give me a rested and fresh Hart over a completely gassed Demp anyday of the week. Its not like Demp had a stress free night last night, and was lights out. He was in and out of trouble, and his control was off all night. You take the 6 innings 1 run that he gave you, and say thanks nice job, no reason to push him anymore.

 

He obviously wasn't going to pitch a complete game, and multiple bullpen arms were unavailable. So either way you were going to have to live with Hart pitching, whether it was a close deficit, large deficit or even if they took the lead. Being afraid of using Hart in a close game is just a horrible defense for extending Dempter. He was going to pitch regardless.

[fasttrack21]

Like SSR, give me a rested and fresh Hart over a completely gassed Demp anyday of the week. Its not like Demp had a stress free night last night, and was lights out. He was in and out of trouble, and his control was off all night. You take the 6 innings 1 run that he gave you, and say thanks nice job, no reason to push him anymore.

When's the last time that Hart pitched in Iowa prior to being called up?

[jersey cubs fan]

Like SSR, give me a rested and fresh Hart over a completely gassed Demp anyday of the week. Its not like Demp had a stress free night last night, and was lights out. He was in and out of trouble, and his control was off all night. You take the 6 innings 1 run that he gave you, and say thanks nice job, no reason to push him anymore.

When's the last time that Hart pitched in Iowa prior to being called up?

 

He was scheduled to start the day he came up, so presumably it was 5 days before Sunday, or last Tuesday.

edit:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Kevin%20Hart&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453954

 

Yes, it was Tuesday June 16, when he threw 6 innings of 6 hit 1 run ball, with 7k/3bb.

[dew1679666265]

I think the point is, the good arms in the pen were gassed and that left only Hart and Patton as fresh arms (though neither particularly good).

 

His argument appears to be that Lou tried to get one more inning out of Dempster - who had been good - rather than go to one of the last two arms in the pen in a tight game.

 

And the point is that is still a stupid decision. Dempster wasn't great. He wiggled out of a few jams in the middle innings, obviously working his tail off in rough conditions.

 

I can see the point. Neither route was a good one, but you likely are correct.

 

I can understand both sides in this, though.

[Soul]

Yes, Miles would've been the pinch hitter, he was in the on-deck circle when Demp convinced Lou to let him stay in. Automatic out either way. That part is irrelevant.

 

And the bullpen was taxed from the weekend. Ascanio had pitched the previous three days, Gregg the previous four, Marshall the previous two, and Heilman threw over 60 pitches over the weekend. Plus Marmol's been worked to death. So that leaves Patton and Hart (and Marshall, at the time). Who would you rather have pitching in a 1-0 game late in the innings? I'd take Demp every time.

 

Keep in mind that the Cubs don't have a day off for the next two-and-a-half weeks. It makes sense why Lou kept him in there when you think about it.

Nope, sorry. Still a stupid decision. End of story. BTW, welcome to NSBB!!

 

:mrgreen:

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the point is, the good arms in the pen were gassed and that left only Hart and Patton as fresh arms (though neither particularly good).

 

His argument appears to be that Lou tried to get one more inning out of Dempster - who had been good - rather than go to one of the last two arms in the pen in a tight game.

 

And the point is that is still a stupid decision. Dempster wasn't great. He wiggled out of a few jams in the middle innings, obviously working his tail off in rough conditions.

 

I can see the point. Neither route was a good one, but you likely are correct.

 

I can understand both sides in this, though.

 

No, the good decision was taking your starter out and allowing the guy you called up specifically to eat some innings for the bullpen to pitch. Leaving Dempster in when he was clearly gassed and not really all that great anyway was a bad decision. If you are willing to start backup position players and have your better relievers unavailable, you are admitting that it is more important to win the war than any one battle. It is then stupid to try and overextend a starting pitcher (a highly compensated one with a longterm guaranteed contract, injury history and a lack of history of consistent quality 200 IP seasons) who was clearly gassed just to avoid using the guys you specifically brought up for short-term help in the bullpen. Hart was going to pitch.

[fasttrack21]

Like SSR, give me a rested and fresh Hart over a completely gassed Demp anyday of the week. Its not like Demp had a stress free night last night, and was lights out. He was in and out of trouble, and his control was off all night. You take the 6 innings 1 run that he gave you, and say thanks nice job, no reason to push him anymore.

When's the last time that Hart pitched in Iowa prior to being called up?

 

He was scheduled to start the day he came up, so presumably it was 5 days before Sunday, or last Tuesday.

edit:

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Kevin%20Hart&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=453954

 

Yes, it was Tuesday June 16, when he threw 6 innings of 6 hit 1 run ball, with 7k/3bb.

Great, thanks.

 

Well in that case I can see the logic in wanting Hart in there. But I don't think it was a move worthy of calling Lou a "freaking idiot" (thread title... btw, love the grammatical error in that and then calling the manager an idiot three words later). It was a debatable move.