Car Jumping Joey Gathright a Cub?

[Little Slide Rooter]

I'm sure it's been said in this thread before but how is this guy any better than Pie?

 

He had a decent 74 games in 2007, but other than that, I trying to figure out how hes better than Sam Fuld.

[nilodnayr]

Terms are 1 yera $800K per cubs.com

 

So, assume major league deal?

[apete6]

I just don't understand where he is going to fit. Even if he takes Pie's spot..there wasn't enough room for Pie on the bench. Are they planning to have Gathright and Hoffpauir fight it out for the final spot on the bench?

 

I can see Gathright being a 5th OF. But the Cubs limited bench has meant that they haven't been able to carry a 5th OF for years, and I'm skeptical that roster change will happen now.

 

This is the dumbest signing from Jim Hendry in a long time. Isn't Pie's FLOOR to be Joey Gathright? I mean, seriously? If we had just traded 6 guys for Peavy and we needed roster filler, this would be fine. Another example of Hendry letting Lou run the front office as well. Lou hates Pie and Fukudome, so Hendry is forced into signing replacements for those guys and having to do it in the media. Maybe if Lou wasn't telling everyone with ears that we need a left handed hitting RF, we could have gotten one for cheaper or something.

 

I have a bad feeling about this season. It could be 2004 all over again. Signing Joey Gathright probably won't have anything to do with it, but it stinks nonetheless.

[Jehrico]

I suppose it's too much to ask that it doesn't guarantee him a spot on the 25 man roster...

Not a horrible signing, but it'd be better if they had that flexibility. I imagine he probably would have signed elsewhere if it weren't.

[cubsfan26]

Relax, all this probably means is Hendry has some offers on the table for Pie, and wanted to sign a guy for insurance before he decided to trade him. Pie is out of options so he's not going back to Triple A. The Cubs aren't going to let Pie go for nothing, so either he will be traded or on the roster next year. I almost see this signing simliar to the Alex Cintron deal a year ago. If the Cubs don't trade Pie they will probably get rid of Gathright and stick with Pie, like they did with Cintron and Cedeno last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Gathright has some clause in his contract that if the Cubs wanna release him in spring training they only have to pay some of his contract. Anybody mad or even bothered by this move, really needs to find another hobby. Because this a very very minor move.

[mdwilla]

Gathright is one of the best defenders in the game with his speed and jumping ability . He's struggled with Injurys and lack of playing time but had a good year in limited action in 07. At 800k for a fifth outfielder with his skill set this isn't a bad deal at all.

[apete6]

Relax, all this probably means is Hendry has some offers on the table for Pie, and wanted to sign a guy for insurance before he decided to trade him. Pie is out of options so he's not going back to Triple A. The Cubs aren't going to let Pie go for nothing, so either he will be traded or on the roster next year. I almost see this signing simliar to the Alex Cintron deal a year ago. If the Cubs don't trade Pie they will probably get rid of Gathright and stick with Pie, like they did with Cintron and Cedeno last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Gathright has some clause in his contract that if the Cubs wanna release him in spring training they only have to pay some of his contract. Anybody mad or even bothered by this move, really needs to find another hobby. Because this a very very minor move.

 

I mostly agree, but if it means the end of Felix Pie as a Cub, that's sad. This guy could have netted us a big time player via trade 2 or 3 years ago and we gave him, what, 300 at bats at the major league level? Because Fukudome sucked last year, Pie is paying the price.

 

Even though Pie wasn't good in his time last April, I still think he should have been given the chance to play against all RHP all of last season. While the Edmonds signing worked out well, the Cubs still would have won the division without him and it would have given them a chance to see if Pie really sucked or not.

[nilodnayr]

Relax, all this probably means is Hendry has some offers on the table for Pie, and wanted to sign a guy for insurance before he decided to trade him. Pie is out of options so he's not going back to Triple A. The Cubs aren't going to let Pie go for nothing, so either he will be traded or on the roster next year. I almost see this signing simliar to the Alex Cintron deal a year ago. If the Cubs don't trade Pie they will probably get rid of Gathright and stick with Pie, like they did with Cintron and Cedeno last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Gathright has some clause in his contract that if the Cubs wanna release him in spring training they only have to pay some of his contract. Anybody mad or even bothered by this move, really needs to find another hobby. Because this a very very minor move.

 

 

IIRC, that wouldn't even need to be specific to this contract. Wheres MPeel when you need him (or when you dont :cry: )

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Relax, all this probably means is Hendry has some offers on the table for Pie, and wanted to sign a guy for insurance before he decided to trade him. Pie is out of options so he's not going back to Triple A. The Cubs aren't going to let Pie go for nothing, so either he will be traded or on the roster next year. I almost see this signing simliar to the Alex Cintron deal a year ago. If the Cubs don't trade Pie they will probably get rid of Gathright and stick with Pie, like they did with Cintron and Cedeno last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Gathright has some clause in his contract that if the Cubs wanna release him in spring training they only have to pay some of his contract. Anybody mad or even bothered by this move, really needs to find another hobby. Because this a very very minor move.

 

 

IIRC, that wouldn't even need to be specific to this contract. Wheres MPeel when you need him (or when you dont :cry: )

 

It's possible that MPeel could mlp posting comments on Bruce's blogs.

 

link

[Hosak8]

I'd rather have Gathright at whatever salary Abreu ends up making than have Abreu at whatever salary Gathright ends up making.

 

You cannot possibly mean this. No way.

[Butterscup1679666578]

So are the rumors true that the Cubs are actually holding a press conference about this?

[Colin Wyers]

I'd rather have Gathright at whatever salary Abreu ends up making than have Abreu at whatever salary Gathright ends up making.

 

You cannot possibly mean this. No way.

 

I spelled out exactly how much I thought Abreu and Gathright were worth in another post in this thread. If you disagree with any of the particulars, feel free to state that and we can have a discussion. But I absolutely can mean that.

[17 Seconds]

So are the rumors true that the Cubs are actually holding a press conference about this?

 

haha that would be awesome. have gathright show up and put on a cubs jersey and hat a the cameras pop

[17 Seconds]

I'd rather have Gathright at whatever salary Abreu ends up making than have Abreu at whatever salary Gathright ends up making.

 

You cannot possibly mean this. No way.

 

I spelled out exactly how much I thought Abreu and Gathright were worth in another post in this thread. If you disagree with any of the particulars, feel free to state that and we can have a discussion. But I absolutely can mean that.

 

Except you didn't really spell out anything. You mostly used cliches and opinions to try and prove your point. Let's at least see some hard evidence and metrics. I dont like defensive metrics at all, but at least try.

 

I don't care how good your defense is. If you have like a .600 OPS, you're not good

[cubsfan26]

Relax, all this probably means is Hendry has some offers on the table for Pie, and wanted to sign a guy for insurance before he decided to trade him. Pie is out of options so he's not going back to Triple A. The Cubs aren't going to let Pie go for nothing, so either he will be traded or on the roster next year. I almost see this signing simliar to the Alex Cintron deal a year ago. If the Cubs don't trade Pie they will probably get rid of Gathright and stick with Pie, like they did with Cintron and Cedeno last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Gathright has some clause in his contract that if the Cubs wanna release him in spring training they only have to pay some of his contract. Anybody mad or even bothered by this move, really needs to find another hobby. Because this a very very minor move.

 

 

IIRC, that wouldn't even need to be specific to this contract. Wheres MPeel when you need him (or when you dont :cry: )

 

I remember when the Blue Jays released Reed Johnson they only had to pay part of his contract, if they did it early enough. I assume the Cubs would be able to do a simliar thing with Gathright, but I'm not 100 percent sure.

[Colin Wyers]

Except you didn't really spell out anything. You mostly used cliches and opinions to try and prove your point. Let's at least see some hard evidence and metrics. I dont like defensive metrics at all, but at least try.

 

I don't care how good your defense is. If you have like a .600 OPS, you're not good

 

Um:

 

Let's break this down.

 

I split the difference between his Marcels and Bill James projected wOBA, and let's say he'll put up a .305 wOBA, so to convert out to runs in a season:

 

(.305-.338)/1.15 * 650 = -18

 

Or roughly a replacement-level hitter, maybe a little better. (All estimates of hitting are relative to league, not position - we add in a positional adjustment separately.) So now let's look at defense.

 

Eyeballing UZR/150, let’s say he’s +10 in CF. Then give him a positional bonus - I use +2.5 for playing CF. So to convert to runs above replacement, we add a replacement level bonus - +20 for the National League and +25 for the American League. Add it all together:

 

-18+10+2.5+25=19.5

 

Voila, a league-average player in the NL, a bit below in the American League.

 

And then you leave Fukudome in RF (you can do the same chaining with Dome - I think it's about +10 on defense, 0 on offense, and -7.5 for position - nowhere near as bad as most people think).

 

Ok, now let's look at Ibanez.

 

(.345-.338)/1.15 * 650 = 4

 

Again, looking at his UZR/150 for the past 3 seasons and regressing to the mean a bit, we get -10 runs or so defensively in a corner outfield, and another -7.5 for position. +25 rep-level bonus for an AL player:

 

4-10-7.5+25=11.5

 

Or roughly a win below average.

 

Abreu:

 

(.366-.338)/1.15 * 650 = 16

 

Again, looking at UZR/150, -15 on defense in an outfield corner and another -7.5 for position. +25 rep-level bonus for an AL player:

 

16-15-7.5+25=18.5

 

So it's a bit closer between Abreu and Gathright - Gathright likely gets a bit of a bonus for baserunning that I'm not accounting for here. Then you start getting into the fact that Abreu's older and the fact that Abreu wants an absurd contract.

 

Bradley is a different animal - it's not that he isn't a better player than Gathright, it's that he's a much more fragile player.

 

And I could care less whether you "like" defensive metrics or not. I don't like the fact that sandwiches don't appear in my hand whenever I snap my fingers. We all have our crosses to bear.

[Jehrico]

And I could care less whether you "like" defensive metrics or not. I don't like the fact that beers don't appear in my hand whenever I snap my fingers. We all have our crosses to bear.

Great quote. And fixed...

[Hosak8]

I'd rather have Gathright at whatever salary Abreu ends up making than have Abreu at whatever salary Gathright ends up making.

 

You cannot possibly mean this. No way.

 

I spelled out exactly how much I thought Abreu and Gathright were worth in another post in this thread. If you disagree with any of the particulars, feel free to state that and we can have a discussion. But I absolutely can mean that.

 

Okay. First of all, I'm perhaps the biggest skeptic of advanced metrics as anyone on this forum, and your metrics "proving" that Gathright is as good a player as Abreu only serves to strengthen that notion. However, that is neither here nor there in this discussion.

 

My point is that you made the comment (and for argument's sake, we'll assume Abreu gets a contract worth 15.5 million in 2009- below what I think he will actually get, ftr) that you would rather have Gathright for 15.5 million than Abreu for 800k. That's patently absurd, and there are no metrics that you can make up that support that stance.

 

Your turn.

[jersey cubs fan]

And I could care less whether you "like" defensive metrics or not. I don't like the fact that sandwiches don't appear in my hand whenever I snap my fingers. We all have our crosses to bear.

Except sandwiches are proven to be good.

[nilodnayr]

Relax, all this probably means is Hendry has some offers on the table for Pie, and wanted to sign a guy for insurance before he decided to trade him. Pie is out of options so he's not going back to Triple A. The Cubs aren't going to let Pie go for nothing, so either he will be traded or on the roster next year. I almost see this signing simliar to the Alex Cintron deal a year ago. If the Cubs don't trade Pie they will probably get rid of Gathright and stick with Pie, like they did with Cintron and Cedeno last year. I wouldn't be surprised if Gathright has some clause in his contract that if the Cubs wanna release him in spring training they only have to pay some of his contract. Anybody mad or even bothered by this move, really needs to find another hobby. Because this a very very minor move.

 

 

IIRC, that wouldn't even need to be specific to this contract. Wheres MPeel when you need him (or when you dont :cry: )

 

It's possible that MPeel could mlp posting comments on Bruce's blogs.

 

link

 

Well that sure sounds like him. I thought I remember that if you release a guy by X day you pay him a month of salary, and Y day and you pay him 2 months or somethign along those lines.

 

Its so sad to read Bruce's comments section, its just basically Hoops talking to himself.

[Colin Wyers]

I'd rather have Gathright at whatever salary Abreu ends up making than have Abreu at whatever salary Gathright ends up making.

 

You cannot possibly mean this. No way.

 

I spelled out exactly how much I thought Abreu and Gathright were worth in another post in this thread. If you disagree with any of the particulars, feel free to state that and we can have a discussion. But I absolutely can mean that.

 

Okay. First of all, I'm perhaps the biggest skeptic of advanced metrics as anyone on this forum, and your metrics "proving" that Gathright is as good a player as Abreu only serves to strengthen that notion. However, that is neither here nor there in this discussion.

 

My point is that you made the comment (and for argument's sake, we'll assume Abreu gets a contract worth 15.5 million in 2009- below what I think he will actually get, ftr) that you would rather have Gathright for 15.5 million than Abreu for 800k. That's patently absurd, and there are no metrics that you can make up that support that stance.

 

Your turn.

 

You contend that my argument is obviously wrong by contending that my argument cannot be correct. I mean, I guess I can't really argue that - you'll just call all of my points made up, right? I don't have the lack of self-respect required to continue this line of conversation. If at some point you decide to actually, um, think, let me know.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If Abreu gets anywhere near 15 million dollars in 2009, I'll make SSR eat a hat.

[SouthSideRyan]

And I could care less whether you "like" defensive metrics or not. I don't like the fact that sandwiches don't appear in my hand whenever I snap my fingers. We all have our crosses to bear.

 

You showed Abreu and Gathright to be similar players in terms of value, yet would rather pay Gathright at 10M per year more.

[Colin Wyers]

And I could care less whether you "like" defensive metrics or not. I don't like the fact that sandwiches don't appear in my hand whenever I snap my fingers. We all have our crosses to bear.

 

You showed Abreu and Gathright to be similar players in terms of value, yet would rather pay Gathright at 10M per year more.

 

Does that make any less sense than preferring to pay Abreu 10M more? Especially when you consider their ages?

[SouthSideRyan]

And I could care less whether you "like" defensive metrics or not. I don't like the fact that sandwiches don't appear in my hand whenever I snap my fingers. We all have our crosses to bear.

 

You showed Abreu and Gathright to be similar players in terms of value, yet would rather pay Gathright at 10M per year more.

 

Does that make any less sense than preferring to pay Abreu 10M more? Especially when you consider their ages?

 

You said you'd rather sign Gathright at Abreu's price than Abreu at Gathright's price.

 

i.e. Gathright @ 10M > Abreu @ 800K

Edited December 16, 2008 by SouthSideRyan