Cubs acquire Kevin Gregg for Jose Ceda

[nilodnayr]

So for those lamenting the potential loss of Wood and calling Hendry an idiot, are you saying that he should resign Wood at all costs? Give Wood a long contract? Because you wouldn't then be calling him an idiot for guaranteeing him big money over numerous years?

 

People are calling Hendry an idiot for trading Ceda for Kevin effing Gregg

 

From what I see, many are also tying it into losing Wood.

 

I am usually big on holding onto prospects, but I don't see the allure of a minor league reliever to get so damn upset at the GM to call him names and question whether he can do the job.

 

 

For everyone who hates on a guy because hes a dominant reliever I would like you to familiarize yourself with a concept called "leverage".

 

What leverage does Ceda hold on the market? Show me.

 

Leverage as in "high leverage situation". You cast the scarlet R on him, but bringing in a guy to mow down a teams 2-3-4 hitters in the 8th inning in a close game is about as valuable as an average starter performing averagely for the first 6 innings of a game.

 

You speak as if it is fact that Ceda will be that dominant of a major league reliever. That is a large reach as of right now.

 

I'm speaking of relievers in general. Only time will tell if Ceda turns out to be able to continue to somewhat harness his control, like he did while relieving last year, but if he does, yeah he'll be a dominant major league reliever.

[SouthSideRyan]

So for those lamenting the potential loss of Wood and calling Hendry an idiot, are you saying that he should resign Wood at all costs? Give Wood a long contract? Because you wouldn't then be calling him an idiot for guaranteeing him big money over numerous years?

 

People are calling Hendry an idiot for trading Ceda for Kevin effing Gregg

 

From what I see, many are also tying it into losing Wood.

 

I am usually big on holding onto prospects, but I don't see the allure of a minor league reliever to get so damn upset at the GM to call him names and question whether he can do the job.

 

 

For everyone who hates on a guy because hes a dominant reliever I would like you to familiarize yourself with a concept called "leverage".

 

What leverage does Ceda hold on the market? Show me.

 

Leverage as in "high leverage situation". You cast the scarlet R on him, but bringing in a guy to mow down a teams 2-3-4 hitters in the 8th inning in a close game is about as valuable as an average starter performing averagely for the first 6 innings of a game.

 

You speak as if it is fact that Ceda will be that dominant of a major league reliever. That is a large reach as of right now.

 

You speak like Gregg IS a dominant major leaguer, that's an irrefutable falsehood.

[nilodnayr]

Any chance of Hendry planning on flipping Gregg to SD in a Peavy deal? They need a closer. Maybe Hendry is saying Wood is gone for some sort of leverage? (I don't know leverage on what, my friend just mentioned the idea)

 

People really need to stop suggesting this as a possiblility. The Padres don't want a 5M mediocrity as their closer.

 

Why not? They've been paying 8m a year for a mediocre closer for years.

 

Because they rescinded a 4M offer to a mediocre closer this year?

 

And that was a guy they'd have to give up 0 players for?

 

Come on.

 

The Padres rescinded the offer because the pitcher in question had no intention of signing for that offer, not that they weren't willing to give it to him.

 

In the meantime, the Padres are minus a closer.

 

And they weren't willing to go over $4M for him, so that shows you how much they want a mediocre releiver.

 

I know I don't need to introduce you to this guy, but you are acting like I do.

[Yanksfan1523]

Sad to see this! Wood should have ended his career always having been a Cub! I really hope he does not go to the Met's. I don't want to have to root against him!

 

I honestly think Gregg is a downgrade to Wood. I think the Cubs downgraded today. I know Marmol can step up when Gregg implodes, but this is a bad deal in my mind.

[TheRaven]

So for those lamenting the potential loss of Wood and calling Hendry an idiot, are you saying that he should resign Wood at all costs? Give Wood a long contract? Because you wouldn't then be calling him an idiot for guaranteeing him big money over numerous years?

 

People are calling Hendry an idiot for trading Ceda for Kevin effing Gregg

 

From what I see, many are also tying it into losing Wood.

 

I am usually big on holding onto prospects, but I don't see the allure of a minor league reliever to get so damn upset at the GM to call him names and question whether he can do the job.

 

 

For everyone who hates on a guy because hes a dominant reliever I would like you to familiarize yourself with a concept called "leverage".

 

What leverage does Ceda hold on the market? Show me.

 

Leverage as in "high leverage situation". You cast the scarlet R on him, but bringing in a guy to mow down a teams 2-3-4 hitters in the 8th inning in a close game is about as valuable as an average starter performing averagely for the first 6 innings of a game.

 

You speak as if it is fact that Ceda will be that dominant of a major league reliever. That is a large reach as of right now.

 

I'm speaking of relievers in general. Only time will tell if Ceda turns out to be able to continue to somewhat harness his control, like he did while relieving last year, but if he does, yeah he'll be a dominant major league reliever.

 

So is that the argument you would use if you were calling a MLB GM in trade discussions in why they should consider Ceda to be a major piece in a trade?

 

If Ceda can harness his control, he can be a dominant major league reliever? I am sorry, but can't the same be said for 95% of relievers? Or pitchers in general?

[TheRaven]

So for those lamenting the potential loss of Wood and calling Hendry an idiot, are you saying that he should resign Wood at all costs? Give Wood a long contract? Because you wouldn't then be calling him an idiot for guaranteeing him big money over numerous years?

 

People are calling Hendry an idiot for trading Ceda for Kevin effing Gregg

 

From what I see, many are also tying it into losing Wood.

 

I am usually big on holding onto prospects, but I don't see the allure of a minor league reliever to get so damn upset at the GM to call him names and question whether he can do the job.

 

 

For everyone who hates on a guy because hes a dominant reliever I would like you to familiarize yourself with a concept called "leverage".

 

What leverage does Ceda hold on the market? Show me.

 

Leverage as in "high leverage situation". You cast the scarlet R on him, but bringing in a guy to mow down a teams 2-3-4 hitters in the 8th inning in a close game is about as valuable as an average starter performing averagely for the first 6 innings of a game.

 

You speak as if it is fact that Ceda will be that dominant of a major league reliever. That is a large reach as of right now.

 

You speak like Gregg IS a dominant major leaguer, that's an irrefutable falsehood.

 

I've hardly brought up Gregg. But I guess I can review my posts to see how I have been touting him.

[nilodnayr]

 

So is that the argument you would use if you were calling a MLB GM in trade discussions in why they should consider Ceda to be a major piece in a trade?

 

If Ceda can harness his control, he can be a dominant major league reliever? I am sorry, but can't the same be said for 95% of relievers? Or pitchers in general?

 

95% of relievers or pitchers or whomever do not regularly sit in the 94-97 range and often reach 100 and absolutely dominate hitters with a knockout fastball/power slider combo. Starting this year helped him turn a corner as evidenced by his second half of the season in the pen in AA with a respectable 3 BB/9. Its not an "if" Ceda can harness his control, its "if" Ceda can maintain his control or somewhere around it he'll be a dominant closer. "If" he doesn't, he'll be a set up guy. If you are really concerned about his control, then man, I hate to show you Kevin Gregg's (or even Carlos Marmol's) BB rates. And thats my whole point. If you don't like Ceda, then you shouldn't like Gregg.

[CUBZ99]

Decent move by Hendry. This always seems to be his MO, by taking an unproven and getting something of value. Looking at Gregg's numbers over the last 2 years it is hard to understand the criticism. The only difference in Gregg and Ceda's numbers is that Gregg is producing at the major league level. Sure Ceda may figure it out someday (even next year) and make a decent reliever, but if I had to pick between which one I would want to go into Spring Training with in 2009, I would pick Gregg no doubt.

[BigbadB]

Any chance of Hendry planning on flipping Gregg to SD in a Peavy deal? They need a closer. Maybe Hendry is saying Wood is gone for some sort of leverage? (I don't know leverage on what, my friend just mentioned the idea)

 

People really need to stop suggesting this as a possiblility. The Padres don't want a 5M mediocrity as their closer.

 

Why not? They've been paying 8m a year for a mediocre closer for years.

 

Because they rescinded a 4M offer to a mediocre closer this year?

 

And that was a guy they'd have to give up 0 players for?

 

Come on.

 

The Padres rescinded the offer because the pitcher in question had no intention of signing for that offer, not that they weren't willing to give it to him.

 

In the meantime, the Padres are minus a closer.

 

And they weren't willing to go over $4M for him, so that shows you how much they want a mediocre releiver.

 

I know I don't need to introduce you to this guy, but you are acting like I do.

 

Heath Bell can't pitch the 8th and 9th innings everyday.

 

And maybe Gregg could be headed somewhere else to close, with a younger, cheaper reliever being sent to San Diego.

 

I see zero need for the Cubs to have traded for Gregg, with or without Wood resigning.

[TheRaven]

 

So is that the argument you would use if you were calling a MLB GM in trade discussions in why they should consider Ceda to be a major piece in a trade?

 

If Ceda can harness his control, he can be a dominant major league reliever? I am sorry, but can't the same be said for 95% of relievers? Or pitchers in general?

 

95% of relievers or pitchers or whomever do not regularly sit in the 94-97 range and often reach 100 and absolutely dominate hitters with a knockout fastball/power slider combo. Starting this year helped him turn a corner as evidenced by his second half of the season in the pen in AA with a respectable 3 BB/9. Its not an "if" Ceda can harness his control, its "if" Ceda can maintain his control or somewhere around it he'll be a dominant closer. "If" he doesn't, he'll be a set up guy. If you are really concerned about his control, then man, I hate to show you Kevin Gregg's (or even Carlos Marmol's) BB rates. And thats my whole point. If you don't like Ceda, then you shouldn't like Gregg.

 

True, not all pitchers can hit that. But there are a lot of bad pitchers that can do that and never make it quite like they should have because they never could learn how to control it.

 

I am not saying that Ceda WILL NOT. I am just not going to go around and talk like he is going to do it for sure. That is what this board is reacting with. And it is ridiculous.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I'm not reading all 10 pages, but this deal doesn't make me feel real happy. I'm not a huge fan of Ceda either

[SouthSideRyan]

Sure Ceda may figure it out someday

 

Figure what out? How to be older or how to be more expensive??

[CUBZ99]

 

So is that the argument you would use if you were calling a MLB GM in trade discussions in why they should consider Ceda to be a major piece in a trade?

 

If Ceda can harness his control, he can be a dominant major league reliever? I am sorry, but can't the same be said for 95% of relievers? Or pitchers in general?

 

95% of relievers or pitchers or whomever do not regularly sit in the 94-97 range and often reach 100 and absolutely dominate hitters with a knockout fastball/power slider combo. Starting this year helped him turn a corner as evidenced by his second half of the season in the pen in AA with a respectable 3 BB/9. Its not an "if" Ceda can harness his control, its "if" Ceda can maintain his control or somewhere around it he'll be a dominant closer. "If" he doesn't, he'll be a set up guy. If you are really concerned about his control, then man, I hate to show you Kevin Gregg's (or even Carlos Marmol's) BB rates. And thats my whole point. If you don't like Ceda, then you shouldn't like Gregg.

 

Why not? Gregg is putting up good numbers at the major league level now. And lets not exaggerate regarding Ceda. There were several scouting reports last year that stated Ceda wasn't sitting in the 94-97 range for a long portion of the season. And there is a big difference between dominating minor league hitting and dominating major league hitting.

[nilodnayr]

 

So is that the argument you would use if you were calling a MLB GM in trade discussions in why they should consider Ceda to be a major piece in a trade?

 

If Ceda can harness his control, he can be a dominant major league reliever? I am sorry, but can't the same be said for 95% of relievers? Or pitchers in general?

 

95% of relievers or pitchers or whomever do not regularly sit in the 94-97 range and often reach 100 and absolutely dominate hitters with a knockout fastball/power slider combo. Starting this year helped him turn a corner as evidenced by his second half of the season in the pen in AA with a respectable 3 BB/9. Its not an "if" Ceda can harness his control, its "if" Ceda can maintain his control or somewhere around it he'll be a dominant closer. "If" he doesn't, he'll be a set up guy. If you are really concerned about his control, then man, I hate to show you Kevin Gregg's (or even Carlos Marmol's) BB rates. And thats my whole point. If you don't like Ceda, then you shouldn't like Gregg.

 

True, not all pitchers can hit that. But there are a lot of bad pitchers that can do that and never make it quite like they should have because they never could learn how to control it.

 

I am not saying that Ceda WILL NOT. I am just not going to go around and talk like he is going to do it for sure. That is what this board is reacting with. And it is ridiculous.

 

No one is going to do anything "for sure".

[nilodnayr]

Sure Ceda may figure it out someday

 

Figure what out? How to be older or how to be more expensive??

 

And to only be under control for one more year.....then maybe he'll be...ohh I don't know

 

Kevin Gregg?

[cubsfan26]

Looking at Gregg game logs last year, he was pretty good 5 of 6 with a 2.92 era or lower in each month. But from August 15th through August 29th, he imploded and gave up 12 earned runs in 6.2 IP(3 blown saves). He missed some time after that, so he possibly could have been pitching hurt. But if you consider that, and the fact he was 32 of 36 in saves, 3.54 era and 1.23 WHIP in 84 IP in 07, he's not bad. I'm not saying he's worth Jose Ceda(depends on if Ceda is Roberto Novoa or somebody good), but isn't a horrible cheap replacement for Wood. I dunno if we would have found a cheaper replacement on the free agent market. Remember Scott Eyre just got 2m, and Marte just signed a 3y-12m deal after having a 4 era this season. Edited November 13, 2008 by cubsfan26

[Soul]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Soul

[TheRaven]

 

So is that the argument you would use if you were calling a MLB GM in trade discussions in why they should consider Ceda to be a major piece in a trade?

 

If Ceda can harness his control, he can be a dominant major league reliever? I am sorry, but can't the same be said for 95% of relievers? Or pitchers in general?

 

95% of relievers or pitchers or whomever do not regularly sit in the 94-97 range and often reach 100 and absolutely dominate hitters with a knockout fastball/power slider combo. Starting this year helped him turn a corner as evidenced by his second half of the season in the pen in AA with a respectable 3 BB/9. Its not an "if" Ceda can harness his control, its "if" Ceda can maintain his control or somewhere around it he'll be a dominant closer. "If" he doesn't, he'll be a set up guy. If you are really concerned about his control, then man, I hate to show you Kevin Gregg's (or even Carlos Marmol's) BB rates. And thats my whole point. If you don't like Ceda, then you shouldn't like Gregg.

 

True, not all pitchers can hit that. But there are a lot of bad pitchers that can do that and never make it quite like they should have because they never could learn how to control it.

 

I am not saying that Ceda WILL NOT. I am just not going to go around and talk like he is going to do it for sure. That is what this board is reacting with. And it is ridiculous.

 

No one is going to do anything "for sure".

 

It's not even a high enough percentage to say it is likely. Yet this is a move that is worthy calling Hendry an idiot?

 

A minor league RP that may or may not be good?

 

We're going to pretend that we could have gotten so much more for him?

 

There is no real market for Jose Ceda. There is no justification to come out and say that next year, he would be able to outperform Kevin Gregg.

[TheRaven]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Then state it as the deal is:

 

Gregg for Ceda + Wood and a 4 year guaranteed high dollar contract.

[17 Seconds]

Decent move by Hendry. This always seems to be his MO, by taking an unproven and getting something of value. Looking at Gregg's numbers over the last 2 years it is hard to understand the criticism. The only difference in Gregg and Ceda's numbers is that Gregg is producing at the major league level. Sure Ceda may figure it out someday (even next year) and make a decent reliever, but if I had to pick between which one I would want to go into Spring Training with in 2009, I would pick Gregg no doubt.

 

I have a feeling you're only looking at ERA. Kevin Gregg really isn't very good. He's a mediocre reliever who is going to make millions next season. How is he better than Michael Wuertz?

 

Also yuou seem to be forgetting that Ceda's value to the Cubs is not just what he can contribute to our team. He has trade value and we just wasted it on a guy who isn't an upgrade to a lot of guys we already have.

[cubsfan26]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

 

You could look at it that way, or you could look at it like Gregg and 4-6m to spend on other players to upgrade the team for Ceda and Wood.

[17 Seconds]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Wow that is some interesting logic

[imb]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Wow that is some interesting logic

 

Yeah, that makes no sense. this deal was done because of the decision to not bring back wood. it wasn't a choice between keeping woody and trading for gregg.

[andrew9991]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Then state it as the deal is:

 

Gregg for Ceda + Wood and a 4 year guaranteed high dollar contract.

 

 

Unless saving 7-10 million per year on Wood frees up payroll to trade for someone like Peavy or a solid bat.

Edited November 13, 2008 by andrew9991

[Soul]

Just so we're clear, the deal really is (from our perspective):

 

Gregg for Ceda and Wood.

 

That's an undeniably, unmistakably, irrefutably, bad thing for the Cubs.

 

Wow that is some interesting logic

 

Yeah, that makes no sense. this deal was done because of the decision to not bring back wood. it wasn't a choice between keeping woody and trading for gregg.

 

The end result is, Gregg will be there instead of Woody. As for saving 4-5 million -- that seems like a pretty small amount of money for a team to be unloading an all-star pitcher with a 1.085 WHIP when they're already spending over 100 million and talking about taking on more.