Is Alfonso Soriano going to be a Hall of Famer?

[B]

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

[OleMissCub]

My Ramirez mancrush is well documented, but I just dont see how sportswriters ever look at him and don't think "Bad Defense and Lazy".

 

Which is why I believe winning a gold glove (even though gold gloves are extremely superficial) would help his cause. I think he should have won it last year. He's got a good chance to win it this year though, although sportswriters seemed to have anointed David Wright as "the chosen one."

 

Through his first 4,589 AB's (93-02), Chipper had 253 HR, 837 RBI, and 1419 hits

 

Through his first 4,403 AB's (98-07), Ramirez had 222 HR, 770 RBI, and 1246 hits

 

So, obviously Chipper is ahead of Ramirez in offensive stats through his first nine seasons or so, but not by a ton, at least as regards the sexy stats. Now, talk about OPS+ or WARP3 and stuff like, and Chipper blows Ramirez away.

 

So I wouldn't dismiss Ramirez as a candidate. I think he's actually a decent candidate at this point if he continues to play for another seven or eight years.

[cubs121]

GEOVANY SOTO

[bhogg]

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

 

 

 

Yep, it's the Hall of FAME. Ozzie Smith wasn't very good, but he was famous :)

[Wilson A2000]

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

 

 

 

Yep, it's the Hall of FAME. Ozzie Smith wasn't very good, but he was famous :)

 

What?

[bhogg]

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

 

 

 

Yep, it's the Hall of FAME. Ozzie Smith wasn't very good, but he was famous :)

 

What?

 

 

 

I'm saying a guy like Ozzie got in more on fame than total baseball talent.

[imb]

ozzie's play was good enough for the hall

[CubbieBum]

I'm really surprised that none of you think he has a chance. I think the fact that voters will judge him in comparison to other leadoff hitters of his era is going to give him a huge boost.

 

Also, if he was to be a key part of a Cubs World Series team, I think he'd have his chances raised enormously.

 

The only stat that he has which is (or will be) impressive is the number of leadoff HRs. His power numbers as a LF are nothing special, his stealing days are pretty much done, and his defense borders between bad and great (throwing). No way he's a HOF player.

 

 

Not to be nit-picky but he has 11 steals in 66 games this year. That's about 30 in a full season.

 

And if he has four years like the pace he has put up this year he would have a good shot and would be a lock if he held his pace the last few weeks for any kind of significant time. Obviously not going to happen but I think if he plays a big role in the Cubs winning a world series or two and has 4 or 5 more 30 hr seasons with 20 sb's he's got a real shot. If he gets 150 more hr's (30 a year until 37 or plays into his 40's) and 100 more sb's (20 for 5 more years or plays into his 40's) he would have 400-300 which could get him in if he is looked at more as a 2b but he will likely be looked at as a outfielder.

[OleMissCub]

ozzie's play was good enough for the hall

 

Indeed. If you have a lifetime WARP3 of 132 as a SS, your butt better be in the HOF.

[CubbieBum]

ozzie's play was good enough for the hall

 

Indeed. If you have a lifetime WARP3 of 132 as a SS, your butt better be in the HOF.

 

The bust is made of your face not your butt ...

[BCVM22]

The bust is made of your face not your butt ...

 

Baseball HOFers get plaques, not busts.

[OleMissCub]

The bust is made of your face not your butt ...

 

Baseball HOFers get plaques, not busts.

 

http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/n438/levintblack/th_owned.png

[AllStarMe]

 

Anyone else? I love Aramis and all, but is he shaping up for the HOF?

 

Aramis is about on the exact same pace that Chipper Jones was at his age so far as the sexy stats are concerned. The problem with comparing him with Chipper is that Chipper has always had high exposure being both on TBS near everyday and always being in the playoffs. Ramirez would go along way to help his cause if he were to win a gold glove (HOF voters like hearing "gold glover Aramis Ramirez, although Chipper doesn't have a gold glove either) and help the Cubs achieve something special.

 

If he continues to remain productive until his late 30's like Chipper is doing, then I could definitely see it.

Agreed on most everything, and I think another factor that HoF voters will weigh is that Chipper is a switch hitter, and will probably surpass Eddie Murray's 504 career HR for 2nd all time as such. Mantle at 536 is a long shot, but not out of the question. I think Chipper's lifetime .310 BA and .870 OPS in 92 postseason games will also greatly help his cause, as you pointed out. Being part of some great postseason runs for the Cubs would help Aramis quite a bit. But imo Rammy needs at least 6 more seasons averaging .300/30/100 to really solidify his spot in Cooperstown.

 

And while TBS sure gave the 1990's Braves a lot of exposure, I'd say WGN is about as comparable as any team has now in terms of national coverage, though I'm not sure about the YES network's market.

[SouthSideRyan]

Nah.

 

Does anyone on the Cubs right now have a real shot at the HOF besides Zambrano? Harden, sure, if he can stay at least relatively healthy.

 

Anyone else? I love Aramis and all, but is he shaping up for the HOF?

Aramis would need to go on a tear and hit like, 200 more home runs in his career which is tough since he's on the wrong side of 30 now.

 

Derrek Lee actually could have had a shot after that huge 2005 if he didn't hurt his wrist, derail his career and lose all his power :(

 

Ramirez turned 30 at the end of June. Saying he's on the wrong side of 30 makes it sound like he's got 3 seasons left.

[chopsx9]

I think both Ramirez and Soriano are basically in the same boat. They are certainly not sure things but if they stay as productive as they have been they have decent shots. If either fades in the next few years then so do their chances. Soriano probably needs to stay productive until he's 40 (assuming he's not 40 now)

 

Zambrano certainly has a shot if he stays healthy. Pitching careers can be so iffy though. (see: Dwight Gooden)

[Jehrico]

Soriano's HOF monitor index as used by BR is 75.5 (100 is a likely HOFer), so he needs several more productive years to up that. It's not a given at this point, but if he performs well enough to justify his salary for the rest of his contract, then he's got a pretty darned good shot.

 

Aramis is sitting at 41, so he's got to do alot more than Fonzie, and he's only two and a half years younger.

[jersey cubs fan]

Strangely enough, BR has Aramis as Alf's no. 1 comparable

 

That's really odd since I wouldn't ever associate the two.

 

Oh BR

Ramirez never used to walk before this year, so its not that surprising to me.

 

He's also about as fast as I was on one leg and didn't strike out, either.

 

But speed and striking out aren't the big picture. Powerful hitters without much patience. I've always associated Soriano with Ramirez, with the big difference being that Ramirez makes more contact.

 

And no, Soriano isn't going to the HOF.

[Derwood]

Chipper's counting stats probably make this a moot point, but he played ~2 seasons worth of games in the OF

[jersey cubs fan]

Soriano's HOF monitor index as used by BR is 75.5 (100 is a likely HOFer), so he needs several more productive years to up that. It's not a given at this point, but if he performs well enough to justify his salary for the rest of his contract, then he's got a pretty darned good shot.

 

Aramis is sitting at 41, so he's got to do alot more than Fonzie, and he's only two and a half years younger.

 

If Soriano justifies his salary for hte rest of his contract, he'll be a shoe in. But that's not going to happen.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I think both Ramirez and Soriano are basically in the same boat. They are certainly not sure things but if they stay as productive as they have been they have decent shots. If either fades in the next few years then so do their chances. Soriano probably needs to stay productive until he's 40 (assuming he's not 40 now)

 

Zambrano certainly has a shot if he stays healthy. Pitching careers can be so iffy though. (see: Dwight Gooden)

 

Good point. Let's hope Z can lay off the blow.

[Jehrico]

Soriano's HOF monitor index as used by BR is 75.5 (100 is a likely HOFer), so he needs several more productive years to up that. It's not a given at this point, but if he performs well enough to justify his salary for the rest of his contract, then he's got a pretty darned good shot.

 

Aramis is sitting at 41, so he's got to do alot more than Fonzie, and he's only two and a half years younger.

 

If Soriano justifies his salary for hte rest of his contract, he'll be a shoe in. But that's not going to happen.

He might if inflation keeps boosting contract costs in the market over the next 6 years at the rate it has been the last couple of years.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soriano's HOF monitor index as used by BR is 75.5 (100 is a likely HOFer), so he needs several more productive years to up that. It's not a given at this point, but if he performs well enough to justify his salary for the rest of his contract, then he's got a pretty darned good shot.

 

Aramis is sitting at 41, so he's got to do alot more than Fonzie, and he's only two and a half years younger.

 

If Soriano justifies his salary for hte rest of his contract, he'll be a shoe in. But that's not going to happen.

He might if inflation keeps boosting contract costs in the market over the next 6 years at the rate it has been the last couple of years.

 

Not really. Inflation isnt' going to make an $18m salary acceptable for anything less than superstar performance. Giambi is in the last year of what was a mega contract signed in 2001, time hasn't made his $21m salary this year look any less than it looked back then.

[Jehrico]

Soriano's HOF monitor index as used by BR is 75.5 (100 is a likely HOFer), so he needs several more productive years to up that. It's not a given at this point, but if he performs well enough to justify his salary for the rest of his contract, then he's got a pretty darned good shot.

 

Aramis is sitting at 41, so he's got to do alot more than Fonzie, and he's only two and a half years younger.

 

If Soriano justifies his salary for hte rest of his contract, he'll be a shoe in. But that's not going to happen.

He might if inflation keeps boosting contract costs in the market over the next 6 years at the rate it has been the last couple of years.

 

Not really. Inflation isnt' going to make an $18m salary acceptable for anything less than superstar performance. Giambi is in the last year of what was a mega contract signed in 2001, time hasn't made his $21m salary this year look any less than it looked back then.

There were a couple of years of deflation since 2001 too though, so the relative value of Giambi's contract has flattened out. In the final year of Soriano's contract, it's not unforeseeable that $18 mil then could be worth about $12 now. With some good luck and health, I don't think it's impossible that Soriano could play at that level. I think it's more likely he wont' than he will, but I don't think it's that highly unlikely though.

[Sammy Sofa]

For wrigley23, he's already in the HOF...of his heart.

[B]

It's not the Hall of Very Good.

 

 

 

Yep, it's the Hall of FAME. Ozzie Smith wasn't very good, but he was famous :)

 

What?

Every time -- and this is not an exaggeration; I literally mean every single time -- a sportswriter writes an article about whether Player X is good enough to make the Hall of Fame, and that sportswriter has decided that: no, Player X is not quite good enough to make the Hall of Fame, the sportswriter smugly and anti-humorously writes some variation of the sentence: "It's not called the 'Hall of Very Good.'" Some incarnations include:

 

Classic: "It's the 'Hall of Fame,' not the 'Hall of Very Good.'"

Positive: "He belongs in the 'Hall of Very Good.'"

Sarcastic: "Maybe he'd get my vote for the 'Hall of Very Good.'"

Dickish/Cowherd-ian: "Um...hello? It's not called the 'Hall of Good.' It's called the 'Hall of Fame.' Fame, as in famous. 'Fame' is part of the equation!!!!! I am bad at my job!!!!!!!!'"

 

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2007/07/hall-of-very-weird.html