Harden & Gaudin for Gallagher, Murton, EPatt & Donaldson

[CubColtPacer]

So, since we're going to the playoffs anyways, we have to keep Harden on a short leash the remainder of the season right? IE Pitch counts, skipping his rotation spot on occasion, etc...

 

I don't see any way the Cubs act like they already are in with Harden. That's the quickest way for everyone to get fired if it doesn't work out. So I certainly don't see them skipping his rotation spot at all.

 

I do think and hope that they will be somewhat careful with him though, and keep him to a pitch count that is regularly below 110 and doesn't get above 115 in any game. My optimal would be to pull him somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 pitches each time out. Unfortunately, Lou's resolve for having his pitchers go deep if they are being effective will be tested with Harden, who will have to be removed in the 6th or after the 6th even while effective a great deal.

[Mizzou]

Are Saturday games blocked out on MLBTV ?

 

The Saturday game has been changed to a 12:05 start, so I'm pretty sure it's not blacked out. Not 100% positive though.

Well, normally it has only been the 3:55 EST time games this year that have been blacked out. All the rest of the Saturday games have been shown on mlb.tv. However, looking at ESPN's projected schedule (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/schedules) it has all 3:55 EST games on FOX as well as the Cubs 1:05 start. So judging by that, then I would think that the cubs will indeed be blacked out Saturday. Looks like it's a sportsbar for me.

The Cubs Saturday game has been changed to a 12:05 start for some reason. Does that mean that it will be shown on Extra Innings now? Anyone know for sure?

[Tyrant]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but the ESPN story had an interesting sidebar.

 

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry checked in from time to time throughout June with Oakland general manager Billy Beane about the availability of Rich Harden, and their conversations traveled down the same path: Yes, Harden was available, but only at the right price, and that price would include right-handed pitcher Sean Gallagher. And Hendry indicated, repeatedly, that Gallagher wasn't available.

 

On Sunday evening -- the same night when word broke that the Brewers had worked out a deal for CC Sabathia -- Hendry indicated to Beane for the first time that he would make Gallagher available in a Harden deal, but it would create a problem: If Gallagher was traded, the Cubs wouldn't have the kind of depth they needed to deal with an injury.

 

"Let me call you back," Beane said.

 

Beane had an idea. He could fill Hendry's need for depth by adding veteran swingman Chad Gaudin in the trade. He phoned Hendry back on Monday night with the suggestion. "That could work," Hendry said, and the two general managers began piecing together other parts of the trade. Beane called Hendry with a detail of the trade very late on Monday night, California time, figuring the call would switch over to voice mail on Hendry's cell phone because it was so late.

 

But Hendry answered the phone, wide awake. "Jim, what are doing awake?" Beane asked.

 

"I'm just laying here on my couch," Hendry said.

 

Some 15 hours later, the trade was finished. Oakland got Gallagher, a pitching prospect with a more stable medical history than Harden, and the Cubs got a high-risk, high-reward talent in Harden.

[moochpuppy]

Congratulations Cub fans! Nice trade by Hendry, especially to also receive Gaudin for what the Cubs gave up.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think he's talking about this year only. Harden has a lengthy injury history and the Cubs dealt their quality pitching depth to acquire him. So I think he's just pointing out that CC doesn't have the injury history and the Brewers didn't have to trade any current MLB players to get him.

 

The Cubs still have quality pitching depth. Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Dempster, Marquis, Gaudin, Marshall, Rich Hill on the comeback trail, and Lieber is supposedly alive as well.

 

EDIT: Considering that Gaudin and Gallagher are similar options for this year, they actually ADDED pitching depth with the deal.

[Jehrico]

Just wanted to add my perspective on the trade: Harden, best talent available via trade with obvious risks, no need to beat that dead horse. Gaudin: Someone referred to him as a typical inconsistant reliever. If you look a little closer, he's only 25 years old. Inconsistency from 22-23-24-25 isn't unusual, it should be expected. He's a guy who's already had success before he was 25, has show good durability, can start or work out of the pen, and whose best years are still ahead of him. He's more of a wild card than a straight throw in; I equate him to Murton in the Nomar trade, but better. Obviously, we're all hoping Harden's injury woes are behind him and he sticks around for a long time. If he spends significant time on the DL over the next season and a half, I can see us in three years commenting on how great of a deal it was that we got Gaudin in that deal. Unless we spin him off on someone else in the next year or so, I'd be surprised if he's not pitching for us still 4-5 years or more from now. In other words, no matter how Harden ends up, we should have something to show for this trade several years from now.

 

I wholly agree with the sentiment that this isn't a high-risk move. It's a low-risk, high reward move in the short term, and at worst, it's a medium risk, high reward move in the long-term.

[shnsajax]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but the ESPN story had an interesting sidebar.

 

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry checked in from time to time throughout June with Oakland general manager Billy Beane about the availability of Rich Harden, and their conversations traveled down the same path: Yes, Harden was available, but only at the right price, and that price would include right-handed pitcher Sean Gallagher. And Hendry indicated, repeatedly, that Gallagher wasn't available.

 

On Sunday evening -- the same night when word broke that the Brewers had worked out a deal for CC Sabathia -- Hendry indicated to Beane for the first time that he would make Gallagher available in a Harden deal, but it would create a problem: If Gallagher was traded, the Cubs wouldn't have the kind of depth they needed to deal with an injury.

 

"Let me call you back," Beane said.

 

Beane had an idea. He could fill Hendry's need for depth by adding veteran swingman Chad Gaudin in the trade. He phoned Hendry back on Monday night with the suggestion. "That could work," Hendry said, and the two general managers began piecing together other parts of the trade. Beane called Hendry with a detail of the trade very late on Monday night, California time, figuring the call would switch over to voice mail on Hendry's cell phone because it was so late.

 

But Hendry answered the phone, wide awake. "Jim, what are doing awake?" Beane asked.

 

"I'm just laying here on my couch," Hendry said.

 

Some 15 hours later, the trade was finished. Oakland got Gallagher, a pitching prospect with a more stable medical history than Harden, and the Cubs got a high-risk, high-reward talent in Harden.

 

Love him or hate him, I don't think anyone can really ever question Hendry's work ethic.

 

I am sure this will follow with a couple of donut jokes, but the man works his ass off.

[Tyrant]

I'm just surprised that Beane's answer to the depth issue was to throw in a pretty good 25-year-old pitcher.

[JeffH]

If you read between the lines in this article, it's killing Dayn Perry to say positive things about the Cubs.

 

That man has a tremendous amount of forehead.

[RynoRules]

Stole my thunder. I have disliked about half of his choices over the last several years, but I cannot question Jim's work ethic. We have heard several stories like the one above. He earns his money in terms of his effort and appears to take a great deal of pride in what he does.

 

Plus he seems to be a generally likeable guy:

 

Last season I was at a game that was eventually called due to rain. My wife and I were under the stands during a delay with a few friends when Jim walked right by us. I said, "Hey Mr. Hendry, nice job getting this thing turned around." He responded with a wave, smile and "Thank you!".

[Joe_Cub]

xm radio kept saying it was sean marshall in the deal while i was driving in. you wouldn't think that two pitchers with the same first name would cause so much confusion.

[ctcf]

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but the ESPN story had an interesting sidebar.

 

Cubs general manager Jim Hendry checked in from time to time throughout June with Oakland general manager Billy Beane about the availability of Rich Harden, and their conversations traveled down the same path: Yes, Harden was available, but only at the right price, and that price would include right-handed pitcher Sean Gallagher. And Hendry indicated, repeatedly, that Gallagher wasn't available.

 

On Sunday evening -- the same night when word broke that the Brewers had worked out a deal for CC Sabathia -- Hendry indicated to Beane for the first time that he would make Gallagher available in a Harden deal, but it would create a problem: If Gallagher was traded, the Cubs wouldn't have the kind of depth they needed to deal with an injury.

 

"Let me call you back," Beane said.

 

Beane had an idea. He could fill Hendry's need for depth by adding veteran swingman Chad Gaudin in the trade. He phoned Hendry back on Monday night with the suggestion. "That could work," Hendry said, and the two general managers began piecing together other parts of the trade. Beane called Hendry with a detail of the trade very late on Monday night, California time, figuring the call would switch over to voice mail on Hendry's cell phone because it was so late.

 

But Hendry answered the phone, wide awake. "Jim, what are doing awake?" Beane asked.

 

"I'm just laying here on my couch," Hendry said.

 

Some 15 hours later, the trade was finished. Oakland got Gallagher, a pitching prospect with a more stable medical history than Harden, and the Cubs got a high-risk, high-reward talent in Harden.

 

Love him or hate him, I don't think anyone can really ever question Hendry's work ethic.

 

I am sure this will follow with a couple of donut jokes, but the man works his ass off.

 

The man worked from his hospital bed for crying out loud.

[TheRaven]

Excellent deal for the Cubs. It is slightly humerous to see some sport people, but not necessarily baseball people, jump on the Cubs for making such a 'risky' move. Getting Gaudin back in this deal really makes this one to love. Him and Gallagher wash each other out, leaving us with Harden for scrubs. Even if Harden goes down, nothing lost. Beautiful trade.

 

I also like it because he is coming here to be a Cub. CC is going to Milwaukee to try to showcase himself for FA. Trying to dominate doesn't always equate to team success and I fully believe he would sacrifice team success for an attempt to parlay his talents into Johan type money. He knows that and his new teammates know that. That is why I am not a fan of these 'rentals', especially when having to give up top prospects back as well. I am not trying to rip Milwaukee, I am actually pleased to see a smaller market team make a splash for a change. I just prefer the lower key move the Cubs made.

[Soul]

Yes, this deal is better than the CC deal IMO.

 

The Brewers either make it to the World Series this year, or face '09 with no CC and no Sheets unless they spend more money than they want to.

 

Even if Harden were to break down, we would still be in the same pitching situation we were always in -- that got us to 54 wins. Plus, Rich can rehab for next year and we come back even stronger in '09.

 

It's a better deal, period.

[VanceJergins]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but there's another great thing about this deal. Now if Hill comes back, Marquis is the only one he can bump from the rotation. He don't have any more rascally kids to send down. So if Hill has actually found it, then that could spell the end of Marquis reign of terror.

[abuck1220]

If you read between the lines in this article, it's killing Dayn Perry to say positive things about the Cubs.

 

That man has a tremendous amount of forehead.

 

But there's another concern: Parting with Gallagher means that Jason Marquis must hold down the fifth starter's job. It's almost a historical imperative that Marquis will collapse in the second half. For his career, Marquis' ERA before the break is an acceptable 4.29; after the break, however, that figure rises to 4.97. At present, the Cubs' other options for the five hole include Rich Hill, whose control problems have forced him all the way down to rookie ball, and the newly acquired Gaudin, who's much more effective when deployed as a reliever. So if Harden goes down and Marquis struggles in the second half (neither is particularly unlikely), then the Cubs suddenly have serious issues in the rotation. In other words, the loss of Gallagher is not to be discounted.

 

if the cubs hadn't traded gallagher and marquis sucked in the 2nd half, they'd go with marshall...who is the same guy they'll go with if marquis sucks in the 2nd half post-trade.

 

i don't think he realizes the cubs got two pitchers for one.

[Soul]

He's right that the loss of Gallagher shouldn't be discounted, but he's wrong about the reasons.

 

Marshall's the guy if Marquis falters. My God, have you ever seen a pitcher who is more invisible than Sean Marshall? The guy goes out there and pitches decently on a fairly consistent basis, yet it's like he doesn't exist.

 

The loss of Gally is something that will likely be felt in '09, or beyond. We've got the arms for this year to handle the 5th spot, good Marquis or bad Marquis.

[cubweiser03]

Awesome. This is the guy i wished for all along. As i was driving home i tuned into the pregame broadcast and they said 'the Cubs made a move today'. I was saying to myself Rich Harden? Please be Rich Harden, no way is it Rich Harden. "The Cubs have acquired Rich Harden" Hell yeah baby! I love the move and i love the trade.

[TMan92]

If you read between the lines in this article, it's killing Dayn Perry to say positive things about the Cubs.

 

Yeah, and I don't agree with him at all when he says the Cubs are taking a bigger risk than the Brewers.

 

For one thing, We'll still have Z and Harden next year. Sheets and Sabathia are both goners (CC for sure, probably Sheets), and they gave up LaPorta, who was the likely replacement for Fielder when Prince leaves (though they still have Gamel, but I like LaPorta more). Gallagher is good, but none of the other players the Cubs gave up have any future on the team, nor were they elite prospects.

 

Put it this way: if the worst were to happen and the Cubs implode down the stretch, we're still in fine shape going into 2009.

 

If the same happens to the Brewers, they will have suffered a net loss (LaPorta and the PTBNL). Though if the Brewers did nothing they likely enter 2009 with Gallardo as their ace, but they still would have had their top ML ready prospect.

 

Even if Harden were to suffer a catastrophic injury tomorrow, the Cubs wouldn't be out that much.

I think he's talking about this year only. Harden has a lengthy injury history and the Cubs dealt their quality pitching depth to acquire him. So I think he's just pointing out that CC doesn't have the injury history and the Brewers didn't have to trade any current MLB players to get him.

 

The main difference here is that Sabathia is truly a rental, while Harden is not.

[CubinNY]

Awesome. This is the guy i wished for all along. As i was driving home i tuned into the pregame broadcast and they said 'the Cubs made a move today'. I was saying to myself Rich Harden? Please be Rich Harden, no way is it Rich Harden. "The Cubs have acquired Rich Harden" Hell yeah baby! I love the move and i love the trade.

I know. I was driving home from class and listening to Ron and Pat on XM. They said that Hendry was coming on and I was thinking "why?". Then Pat congratulated Hendry on the Harden deal and I yelled like a school girl. It scared my wife. Then I high fived her. And she asked what was going on. I told her and she asked if they Cubs traded Theriot. I told her no. She loves Theriot for some reason.

[YearofDaCubs]

Harden was just on the Waddle and Silvy show and they asked him about his shoulder. He definitely hesitated with his answers but he did answer his shoulder was fine. Maybe that's the way he answers but if he was interviewing with me that would def raise a flag. I just checked his last 3 starts and his velocity is definitely down from before. The positive that I did see was against the WSox in his last start he was able to hit 96-97 again, better than his previous two starts. So maybe indeed he is just going through a dead arm period. He did mention in the interview that he was a bit tired and he wasn't trying to push it so he can make it through the season. Said that he really liked this new regimen and it's helped him stay healthy. I think it was pretty obvious that a lot of teams really liked Gallagher. Some people said his ceiling was a 3-4 and some have said up to a #2. I believe that he has shown enough at his age to think he might be able to be as good as a #2. We also did get Gaudin back who I believe can give us Lilly type numbers out of the rotation. Long story short, the Cubs had to make this trade, I commend Hendry for it because even with the ? marks with Harden the upside to this trade is so HUGE that you have to do it. Harden is one of my favorite pitchers, I love the fact that he is a Cub.

[RammyFanny]

Was it just me or was Hendry talking about Marshall starting and saying Marquis could even go to the pen?

 

It makes sense since we'd only have one lefty.

[Joe_Cub]

BP's analysis is up ... does anyone subscribe?

[Andrew Cashner]

What will Hardin's number be since (at least I think) Larry Rothschild is #40

[Joe_Cub]

i read someplace that larry would give it up, he's worn 3 numbers since arriving with the Cubs.