March Madness Thread

[bukie]

Bukie,

 

They never left a 10 win conference team out until last year so I don't understand why that would be a thing. If conference play is an influence, why Arizona over Arizona St? It seems to me that they can boot any of these teams out by using examples A-Z. I just don't like the inconsistency of their criteria. Does the RPI count? When does it count? It seems to only count when it's convenient.

 

I'll try to get an answer to each question:

 

1) 10 conference wins is something, but 12 is something else. I mean, 12-4 is 12-4. There's just no precedent, and I definitely agree that the situation for the conference tournament put the committee in a no-win situation with Kentucky, as leaving them out would give them the best argument ever for being slighted.

 

2) Arizona was without their two best players for the end of the conference season. Like Sheehan said, you can either make the argument that those 2 ASU wins over Arizona were good for ASU, or not bad for Arizona, but you can't make both arguments. The committee apparently took into account the injury to Bayless and discounted that bad portion of the season.

 

3) The RPI mostly counts in these ways: Good wins (vs. top 50/100), bad losses (vs. >200), and overall records vs. those groups. RPI is more a measure of what a team has accomplished during the year than a measure of how good a team is or will play going forward. It appears that the committee puts a team in the field based on what they accomplished during the year, and then seeds them based on how good they are or will play going forward. This is why an Indiana gets an 8 seed, or a Butler gets a 7.

 

Syracuse was a top seed in the NIT, so it would appear they weren't that far out from being selected. Although I am still surprised that Illinois State didn't get selected, for having a very good year in a very good league.

[CuseCubFan69]

Bukie,

 

They never left a 10 win conference team out until last year so I don't understand why that would be a thing. If conference play is an influence, why Arizona over Arizona St? It seems to me that they can boot any of these teams out by using examples A-Z. I just don't like the inconsistency of their criteria. Does the RPI count? When does it count? It seems to only count when it's convenient.

 

I'll try to get an answer to each question:

 

1) 10 conference wins is something, but 12 is something else. I mean, 12-4 is 12-4. There's just no precedent, and I definitely agree that the situation for the conference tournament put the committee in a no-win situation with Kentucky, as leaving them out would give them the best argument ever for being slighted.

 

2) Arizona was without their two best players for the end of the conference season. Like Sheehan said, you can either make the argument that those 2 ASU wins over Arizona were good for ASU, or not bad for Arizona, but you can't make both arguments. The committee apparently took into account the injury to Bayless and discounted that bad portion of the season.

 

3) The RPI mostly counts in these ways: Good wins (vs. top 50/100), bad losses (vs. >200), and overall records vs. those groups. RPI is more a measure of what a team has accomplished during the year than a measure of how good a team is or will play going forward. It appears that the committee puts a team in the field based on what they accomplished during the year, and then seeds them based on how good they are or will play going forward. This is why an Indiana gets an 8 seed, or a Butler gets a 7.

 

Syracuse was a top seed in the NIT, so it would appear they weren't that far out from being selected. Although I am still surprised that Illinois State didn't get selected, for having a very good year in a very good league.

 

12-4 in a conference that had a team that was under 500 win its tournament.

 

When is Bayless coming back?

 

The RPI takes into account road wins so why does Syracuse get punished twice when they mention road games?

[bukie]

12-4 in a conference that had a team that was under 500 win its tournament.

 

When is Bayless coming back?

 

The RPI takes into account road wins so why does Syracuse get punished twice when they mention road games?

 

Bayless was back for the conference tournament, where Arizona crushed OSU by 40 and lost a close one to Stanford.

 

The actual RPI number makes very little difference. 12-4 in a BCS conference is still 12-4 in a BCS conference, and the 4th best conference by RPI. There's just no ignoring that, and the crazy situation of the conference tournament basically destroys the importance of it, aside from Georgia getting the auto bid. Essentially, since January, Kentucky has been, by far, the better team.

[CuseCubFan69]

12-4 in a conference that had a team that was under 500 win its tournament.

 

When is Bayless coming back?

 

The RPI takes into account road wins so why does Syracuse get punished twice when they mention road games?

 

Bayless was back for the conference tournament, where Arizona crushed OSU by 40 and lost a close one to Stanford.

 

The actual RPI number makes very little difference. 12-4 in a BCS conference is still 12-4 in a BCS conference, and the 4th best conference by RPI. There's just no ignoring that, and the crazy situation of the conference tournament basically destroys the importance of it, aside from Georgia getting the auto bid. Essentially, since January, Kentucky has been, by far, the better team.

 

 

RPI matters. The Committee mentions it when they want to bounce a team out near the end if it comes down to it.

[CubColtPacer]

Here's what the selection committee chair had to say about Arizona:

 

"The Wildcats were 16-6 with Nic Wise and Jerryd Bayless, and their strength of schedule [was high]. When they weren't in the lineup they were a different team."

 

The committee does have the ability to take mid-season injuries into account, especially when the results are clearly better when they were healthy. If Dayton had been healthy at this point of the season like Arizona is now, they probably would have gotten more consideration as well.

 

Here's the committee chair's thoughts on a few other specific teams:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney08/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=3297287

 

BTW, the schedules are now out. IU plays the 9:40 game, which seems to be tradition for them. I'm not sure I've ever seen IU get a first round afternoon game, and most of the time they are one of the last games of the night.

[CubColtPacer]

12-4 in a conference that had a team that was under 500 win its tournament.

 

When is Bayless coming back?

 

The RPI takes into account road wins so why does Syracuse get punished twice when they mention road games?

 

Bayless was back for the conference tournament, where Arizona crushed OSU by 40 and lost a close one to Stanford.

 

The actual RPI number makes very little difference. 12-4 in a BCS conference is still 12-4 in a BCS conference, and the 4th best conference by RPI. There's just no ignoring that, and the crazy situation of the conference tournament basically destroys the importance of it, aside from Georgia getting the auto bid. Essentially, since January, Kentucky has been, by far, the better team.

 

 

RPI matters. The Committee mentions it when they want to bounce a team out near the end if it comes down to it.

 

If anybody wants to know about how the committee selects teams and what criteria they use, this is probably a good thing to read Last year about a month before the tournament, they let the media come in and play like they were the committee and make a bracket. Here's a story about it:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2758650

 

And if you're interested in the first link, here's another one:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2758770&sportCat=ncb

 

There are a couple other links from other people involved in that process that has some otherwise not covered info that I can dig up if you want to read more. It's really quite fascinating IMO.

 

And as for RPI,

 

The RPI was on the screen when teams were compared, but a team's RPI wasn't used in any argument that was discussed among the entire group.

[MPrior]

i maybe can understand some of the whining about seeds for teams that just want to win a game or two. but i don't feel sorry for unc having to play in a tough region. i mean, isn't their goal to win the whole thing? then what does it matter if they have to play tennessee to get to the final four? if they're the best, aren't they going to have to beat the second best anyway?

 

As an avid UNC fan, I sort of agree with you, but you have to understand why UNC fans would be frustrated by a more difficult bracket - the whole idea is to be fair, so that every top seed has a roughly equal path to the final four.

 

That said, I don't think UNC's bracket is necessarily that much tougher than the rest (last year, though, was a different story. That was ridiculous). The only thing that really peeves me is Indiana's 8 seeding. That's absurd, and Arkansas is probably better than a 9 seed too. Either way, it sets up UNC for a more difficult 2nd round game than any other 1 seed, probably.

[CuseCubFan69]

"We thought they weren't one of the 34 best." So, when it comes to Syracuse they used their intense knowledge of the game but the numbers with other teams. I think an SOS of 10 should have helped and every year we got bounced that was their reason why, the lack of SOS. This is the second year in a row and as I said before, yes all these bubble teams should have won more but I'm starting to wonder if our new AD has a problem with the Committee members.

[CuseCubFan69]

12-4 in a conference that had a team that was under 500 win its tournament.

 

When is Bayless coming back?

 

The RPI takes into account road wins so why does Syracuse get punished twice when they mention road games?

 

Bayless was back for the conference tournament, where Arizona crushed OSU by 40 and lost a close one to Stanford.

 

The actual RPI number makes very little difference. 12-4 in a BCS conference is still 12-4 in a BCS conference, and the 4th best conference by RPI. There's just no ignoring that, and the crazy situation of the conference tournament basically destroys the importance of it, aside from Georgia getting the auto bid. Essentially, since January, Kentucky has been, by far, the better team.

 

 

RPI matters. The Committee mentions it when they want to bounce a team out near the end if it comes down to it.

 

If anybody wants to know about how the committee selects teams and what criteria they use, this is probably a good thing to read Last year about a month before the tournament, they let the media come in and play like they were the committee and make a bracket. Here's a story about it:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2758650

 

And if you're interested in the first link, here's another one:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2758770&sportCat=ncb

 

There are a couple other links from other people involved in that process that has some otherwise not covered info that I can dig up if you want to read more. It's really quite fascinating IMO.

 

And as for RPI,

 

The RPI was on the screen when teams were compared, but a team's RPI wasn't used in any argument that was discussed among the entire group.

 

It was a nice read but we're talking writers, not the guys that made the decisions.

[NOLA]

I don't know much about Arkansas. They beat Vandy and Tennessee, but lost to a Georgia team playing it's 3rd game in 30 hours. They went into the SEC tourney having lost 5 of 8 games, and lost now 4 games to the bottom 4 in the SEC. They also lost at Providence and home vs. App. St. Admittedly, though, I have not seen them play all year. And clearly, you don't know what IU team you are gonna get, but I do think they played OK vs. Minnesota.

I've seen a ton of Arkansas games this year. They are as talented as anyone around, but they have a new coach and new system this year and are just now starting to figure it out. They have a DEEP bench, and especially talented inside. Hill at 7' is Mr. Defense, second in blocked shots in SEC history behind Shaq. Townes is almost automatic in the post. Thomas has a double/double in him at any time. Someone on their frontcourt will get you around 20pts/10rb every game, but their leading rebounder is 6' 1" Beverly at guard, who is the heart of the team. Their point guard, Ervin, has been suspect all year. That said, if Weems at SF looks to be hot early, look out. When he is on he is unstoppable, when he is off he just looks bored out there. Their inside game is always there, but they go as their guards go. Hope that helps a little.

[CubColtPacer]

12-4 in a conference that had a team that was under 500 win its tournament.

 

When is Bayless coming back?

 

The RPI takes into account road wins so why does Syracuse get punished twice when they mention road games?

 

Bayless was back for the conference tournament, where Arizona crushed OSU by 40 and lost a close one to Stanford.

 

The actual RPI number makes very little difference. 12-4 in a BCS conference is still 12-4 in a BCS conference, and the 4th best conference by RPI. There's just no ignoring that, and the crazy situation of the conference tournament basically destroys the importance of it, aside from Georgia getting the auto bid. Essentially, since January, Kentucky has been, by far, the better team.

 

 

RPI matters. The Committee mentions it when they want to bounce a team out near the end if it comes down to it.

 

If anybody wants to know about how the committee selects teams and what criteria they use, this is probably a good thing to read Last year about a month before the tournament, they let the media come in and play like they were the committee and make a bracket. Here's a story about it:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2758650

 

And if you're interested in the first link, here's another one:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2758770&sportCat=ncb

 

There are a couple other links from other people involved in that process that has some otherwise not covered info that I can dig up if you want to read more. It's really quite fascinating IMO.

 

And as for RPI,

 

The RPI was on the screen when teams were compared, but a team's RPI wasn't used in any argument that was discussed among the entire group.

 

It was a nice read but we're talking writers, not the guys that made the decisions.

 

Yes, but they were forced to do things just like the committee does them, and there were people there telling them how to proceed and what discussions were appropriate and what discussions were not.

[CuseCubFan69]

I don't know much about Arkansas. They beat Vandy and Tennessee, but lost to a Georgia team playing it's 3rd game in 30 hours. They went into the SEC tourney having lost 5 of 8 games, and lost now 4 games to the bottom 4 in the SEC. They also lost at Providence and home vs. App. St. Admittedly, though, I have not seen them play all year. And clearly, you don't know what IU team you are gonna get, but I do think they played OK vs. Minnesota.

I've seen a ton of Arkansas games this year. They are as talented as anyone around, but they have a new coach and new system this year and are just now starting to figure it out. They have a DEEP bench, and especially talented inside. Hill at 7' is Mr. Defense, second in blocked shots in SEC history behind Shaq. Townes is almost automatic in the post. Thomas has a double/double in him at any time. Someone on their frontcourt will get you around 20pts/10rb every game, but their leading rebounder is 6' 1" Beverly at guard, who is the heart of the team. Their point guard, Ervin, has been suspect all year. That said, if Weems at SF looks to be hot early, look out. When he is on he is unstoppable, when he is off he just looks bored out there. Their inside game is always there, but they go as their guards go. Hope that helps a little.

 

They sound like a team that could beat a lot of good teams and then lose to a bad one.

[Andy]

I created the NSBB group and sent invites to all the members I'm 'friends' with that added the CBSSports app. For anyone else that has a Facebook and wants in, here's the link.

[abuck1220]

"We thought they weren't one of the 34 best." So, when it comes to Syracuse they used their intense knowledge of the game but the numbers with other teams. I think an SOS of 10 should have helped and every year we got bounced that was their reason why, the lack of SOS. This is the second year in a row and as I said before, yes all these bubble teams should have won more but I'm starting to wonder if our new AD has a problem with the Committee members.

 

they have to win some of those games against tough competition for SOS to matter. playing a bunch of good teams and losing doesn't help your cause.

[NOLA]

I don't know much about Arkansas. They beat Vandy and Tennessee, but lost to a Georgia team playing it's 3rd game in 30 hours. They went into the SEC tourney having lost 5 of 8 games, and lost now 4 games to the bottom 4 in the SEC. They also lost at Providence and home vs. App. St. Admittedly, though, I have not seen them play all year. And clearly, you don't know what IU team you are gonna get, but I do think they played OK vs. Minnesota.

I've seen a ton of Arkansas games this year. They are as talented as anyone around, but they have a new coach and new system this year and are just now starting to figure it out. They have a DEEP bench, and especially talented inside. Hill at 7' is Mr. Defense, second in blocked shots in SEC history behind Shaq. Townes is almost automatic in the post. Thomas has a double/double in him at any time. Someone on their frontcourt will get you around 20pts/10rb every game, but their leading rebounder is 6' 1" Beverly at guard, who is the heart of the team. Their point guard, Ervin, has been suspect all year. That said, if Weems at SF looks to be hot early, look out. When he is on he is unstoppable, when he is off he just looks bored out there. Their inside game is always there, but they go as their guards go. Hope that helps a little.

 

They sound like a team that could beat a lot of good teams and then lose to a bad one.

Hit the nail on the proverbial head. See win over Tennesee, two losses to Georgia. Although, Georgia is not as bad as one would think by their record. They were in total disaray after kicking two starters off their team, but they have some talent.

[CuseCubFan69]

"We thought they weren't one of the 34 best." So, when it comes to Syracuse they used their intense knowledge of the game but the numbers with other teams. I think an SOS of 10 should have helped and every year we got bounced that was their reason why, the lack of SOS. This is the second year in a row and as I said before, yes all these bubble teams should have won more but I'm starting to wonder if our new AD has a problem with the Committee members.

 

they have to win some of those games against tough competition for SOS to matter. playing a bunch of good teams and losing doesn't help your cause.

 

True. It seems to help Arizona often enough though and we did beat Georgetown and Marquette along with Nova, Cornell, Siena and St. Joes. Plus, since the committee is talking healthy, we played at Virginia before they had injuries and won.

 

Another thing for the other RPI posts form others. The committee is big on wins versus the top 50/100/200 and how is this criteria determined? The RPI.

[Exile on Waveland]

I don't know much about Arkansas. They beat Vandy and Tennessee, but lost to a Georgia team playing it's 3rd game in 30 hours. They went into the SEC tourney having lost 5 of 8 games, and lost now 4 games to the bottom 4 in the SEC. They also lost at Providence and home vs. App. St. Admittedly, though, I have not seen them play all year. And clearly, you don't know what IU team you are gonna get, but I do think they played OK vs. Minnesota.

I've seen a ton of Arkansas games this year. They are as talented as anyone around, but they have a new coach and new system this year and are just now starting to figure it out. They have a DEEP bench, and especially talented inside. Hill at 7' is Mr. Defense, second in blocked shots in SEC history behind Shaq. Townes is almost automatic in the post. Thomas has a double/double in him at any time. Someone on their frontcourt will get you around 20pts/10rb every game, but their leading rebounder is 6' 1" Beverly at guard, who is the heart of the team. Their point guard, Ervin, has been suspect all year. That said, if Weems at SF looks to be hot early, look out. When he is on he is unstoppable, when he is off he just looks bored out there. Their inside game is always there, but they go as their guards go. Hope that helps a little.

 

They sound like a team that could beat a lot of good teams and then lose to a bad one.

 

Hopefully they lose to a bad one Friday evening.

[CuseCubFan69]

This ought to be an interesting tournament. I miss the days when I could just take Thursday off and watch the games from 12 on drinking beer and eating wings throughout the whole day.

[Guest]

it's nice to see that the committee is using the old "throw a dart" method of picking teams again this year

 

what teams do you have an issue with?

 

just seems like they dismissed conf. tourney results in some instances and regular season in others (more in terms of seeding than who was in our out). Tennessee should NOT be in the same regional as UNC. Kansas shouldn't have to potentially play Texas in Houston in the Elite 8. Arizona St. got shafted.

 

also, does anyone else think the play-in game should be between two at-large teams? i think that if you earn an automatic bid to the tourney, you should be in period. or eliminate the play-in game, which is altogether lame to begin with

 

Kansas and Texas are on opposite sides of the bracket and can't play until the final.

[Guest]

I don't understand how people can actually complain about teams getting hosed in this ridiculously oversized tournament. If you can't get into the NCAA tourney, or if you can't get a very high seed, then you didn't have a good enough season, so just shut up already.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Hey [insert team that went 9-9/9-7/was barely over .500 in conference], guess you should have won a couple more games in league, eh? Like you said, if you're on the bubble already, you have nothing to complain about because you played yourself onto the bubble in the previous 30 games.

[Derwood]

it's nice to see that the committee is using the old "throw a dart" method of picking teams again this year

 

what teams do you have an issue with?

 

just seems like they dismissed conf. tourney results in some instances and regular season in others (more in terms of seeding than who was in our out). Tennessee should NOT be in the same regional as UNC. Kansas shouldn't have to potentially play Texas in Houston in the Elite 8. Arizona St. got shafted.

 

also, does anyone else think the play-in game should be between two at-large teams? i think that if you earn an automatic bid to the tourney, you should be in period. or eliminate the play-in game, which is altogether lame to begin with

 

Kansas and Texas are on opposite sides of the bracket and can't play until the final.

 

sorry, I meant Memphis

[JimSorgi]

it's nice to see that the committee is using the old "throw a dart" method of picking teams again this year

 

what teams do you have an issue with?

 

just seems like they dismissed conf. tourney results in some instances and regular season in others (more in terms of seeding than who was in our out). Tennessee should NOT be in the same regional as UNC. Kansas shouldn't have to potentially play Texas in Houston in the Elite 8. Arizona St. got shafted.

 

also, does anyone else think the play-in game should be between two at-large teams? i think that if you earn an automatic bid to the tourney, you should be in period. or eliminate the play-in game, which is altogether lame to begin with

 

Kansas and Texas are on opposite sides of the bracket and can't play until the final.

 

sorry, I meant Memphis

 

It doesn't matter anyway. Memphis will lose to Pittsburgh.

[snoodmonger]

I don't understand how people can actually complain about teams getting hosed in this ridiculously oversized tournament. If you can't get into the NCAA tourney, or if you can't get a very high seed, then you didn't have a good enough season, so just shut up already.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Hey [insert team that went 9-9/9-7/was barely over .500 in conference], guess you should have won a couple more games in league, eh? Like you said, if you're on the bubble already, you have nothing to complain about because you played yourself onto the bubble in the previous 30 games.

 

 

I agree. It's not like in football where a team that deserves a shot at the title is left out. We're talking about very mediocre teams here who have virtually no shot of winning more than 1-2 games. Play better next year.

[Brendan]

i posted this in the ncaa thread, which seems dead. i was wondering does anyone know where they publish tv coverage maps for this weekend's games?

[illiniguy]

This ought to be an interesting tournament. I miss the days when I could just take Thursday off and watch the games from 12 on drinking beer and eating wings throughout the whole day.

I am off the whole weekend and plan on doing just that.

 

The UNC thing is a joke. Yes they have to beat all of the teams to win, but playing more of them than the other 1 seeds is where I see the problem. They earned the number 1 overall seed, thus they should have the easier road. They will play an IU team that was near the top ten the entire year in round two(yes IU fans you are going to win that game vs Arkansas). But, then Kansas plays Kent State or UNLV. I don't see any Eric Gordon or D.J. White's on those rosters. UNC has a shot to go down in any round. I can't see KU losing before the elite eight and that isn't because KU is better than UNC.