Re: Chone Figgins

[RammyFanny]

The Cubs would be tempted if they could find an impact player available in a trade this week who meets their need for power or speed. Possibilities would be Tampa Bay's Carl Crawford or Anaheim's Chone Figgins, who could become available if the Angels acquire Miguel Cabrera from Florida. The Cubs could then move Alfonso Soriano down in the order and perhaps even rest him on occasion.

 

The Cubs have plenty of youngsters to deal, including Sean Marshall, Eric Patterson and perhaps Pie. Among the few they'd be very unlikely to part with are pitchers Rich Hill, Carlos Marmol and Sean Gallagher and outfielder Tyler Colvin.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-newcubs-winter02dec02,1,1079795.story

 

What's the consensus on Chone? Was the .330 average with the near .400 OBP last year a sign of him figuring things out? Can he keep up the .800+ OPS or will he revert to sub .800?

 

Another interesting thing is the part of us "perhaps" shopping Pie.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Chone Figgins is an impact player?

[Electron Blue]

Chone Figgins is an impact player?

 

If last year could become somewhat of a trend, I'd like him quite a bit (for the right price) hitting 1st and playing some RF/2B.

 

But, yeah, he doesn't fit the connotation "impact player." He's not worth any package including Pie. Maybe Marshall/Patterson; I really don't know how much EP is/should be worth...

[rawaction]

Figgins is decent. He had a great season in 07. He was horrible in 06. But his previous 3 seasons are all right in line with his career numbers of .293/.355/.400. My problem with Figgins is that he doesn't really improve the team over what the Cubs already have. He can play 3b, 2b, or CF. Obviously, he's no match for Ramirez. Pie's upside is more than what Figgins can provide in CF. And his career numbers compare closely to Derosa's, but unless he hits .330, he's not worth acquiring to push, at worst, a similar player to the bench.

[Mizzou]

I've always liked Chone Figgins quite a bit. I wonder what it would take to acquire him.

[Post Count Padder]

Figgins is a nice player, but what does he really add to the team that we need? Every position he could play, we ahve someone better than him there, or too many players there already. If you say he adds versatility, Mark DeRosa waves hello. Only thing he really adds is stolen bases, which I guess is the reason Hendry would acquire him.

[Roast]

Figgins is a nice player, but what does he really add to the team that we need? Every position he could play, we ahve someone better than him there, or too many players there already. If you say he adds versatility, Mark DeRosa waves hello. Only thing he really adds is stolen bases, which I guess is the reason Hendry would acquire him.

 

Can't Chone play SS? If so he's FAR better than Theriot.

 

 

Like Mizzou, I've always really liked Chone. He fits Hendry's desire for being fast and having the ability to hit lefty - but the difference is; He's actually good!

[wrigley23]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

If Figgins can play SS, I'd take him. If not, I'm really not certain he improves the team very much.

[inari]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

 

Wrong on all counts. We need good hitters and it doesn't matter where they hit in the order or which hand they use to do it.

[USSoccer]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

 

Leadoff hitter is not a position. 2-hole hitter is not a position. Power lefty is not a position.

 

The Cubs need good hitters, not players that fit into the Olde Timey molds of perception.

[nilodnayr]

If Figgins can play SS, I'd take him. If not, I'm really not certain he improves the team very much.

I think he's only played 20 some games there in his career. And didn't his defense get panned when he was in the infield? Still I'm guessing he can play it just as well as Theriot.

[Yestheydo]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

 

No, to "get it" you have to realize that the Cubs feel the offense just needs a little tweaking. A speedy lefty infielder to bat second. A lefty RF with power to bat fifth. And we're done.

 

All we can hope for is we get lucky and they happen to be good players. (Roberts/ Fukudome instead of, say, Jose Valentin and Geoff Jenkins.)

 

Stuff like trading Pie or batting Soriano fifth, I'll believe when it happens.

[LuvChicagoSports]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

 

You seem to have a pretty set way of thinking so I'm not sure if you would be interested, but I would like to suggest a couple of readings merely to broaden your thoughts on the game. The first book I would suggest is "Moneyball" which is certainly not new reading material, but it is a very simple read that does a good job of introducing statistical ideas. If you feel like reading a book that is a little more advanced in sabermetrics, I would suggest "Baseball Between the Numbers" by the basball prospectus group. I feel that I am much more knowledgeable having read these books as well as others. I'm not saying it's what I would qualify as the only way to think about the game, but it certainly does suggest ideas that are worth thinking about and studying. It's not too long ago that I thought the Cubs needed a player like Juan Pierre and now I cringe at the idea that I thought things like that.

[Roast]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

So you say our biggest needs are:

 

Leadoff hitter

2nd Hitter

Power lefty?

 

 

Jim Hendry, is that you?

 

 

And about your power lefty - Explain to me this. How would a "power lefty" help the fact that one of our biggest offensive faults last year was the inability to hit left handed pitchers - something Left handed batters are notoriously not great at doing.

[wrigley23]

lovchicago...without even knowing it, you agreed w/ my points exactly. I have read moneyball. In fact, I believe it to a "T"...thus my comments. I never said we needed Juan Pierre. I said we needed guys at the top that get on base. Soriano does not. He is way, way too much of a free swinger just like the rest of our lineup. I don't want Figgins, iguchi or fukudome for steals but for OBP. They are very strong with that because they understand the art of getting on base whereas Soriano has no clue. Soriano is a run producer/rbi guy. He is selfish at the plate. We will not win w/ him leading off. Why do you think Piniella wants him out of there? Hendry is the buffoon that simply does not understand or value OBP. The Red Sox resurgance under Theo Epstein is no mistake. They value OBP & making the pitcher labor. We do not. Colorado & Arizona also had better understanding of the strikezone. That's why we went down in flames.

[CubColtPacer]

lovchicago...without even knowing it, you agreed w/ my points exactly. I have read moneyball. In fact, I believe it to a "T"...thus my comments. I never said we needed Juan Pierre. I said we needed guys at the top that get on base. Soriano does not. He is way, way too much of a free swinger just like the rest of our lineup. I don't want Figgins, iguchi or fukudome for steals but for OBP. They are very strong with that because they understand the art of getting on base whereas Soriano has no clue. Soriano is a run producer/rbi guy. He is selfish at the plate. We will not win w/ him leading off. Why do you think Piniella wants him out of there? Hendry is the buffoon that simply does not understand or value OBP. The Red Sox resurgance under Theo Epstein is no mistake. They value OBP & making the pitcher labor. We do not. Colorado & Arizona also had better understanding of the strikezone. That's why we went down in flames.

 

Two of the players you mentioned aren't really that good on getting on base. Iguchi has only been slightly better than Soriano in the OBP department. Figgins was only marginally better before last years great OBP year. Neither of them are much more than average OBP players, and they certainly aren't great examples of players who "understand the art of getting on base".

[rawaction]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

So you say our biggest needs are:

 

Leadoff hitter

2nd Hitter

Power lefty?

 

 

Jim Hendry, is that you?

 

 

And about your power lefty - Explain to me this. How would a "power lefty" help the fact that one of our biggest offensive faults last year was the inability to hit left handed pitchers - something Left handed batters are notoriously not great at doing.

 

I don't know why everyone keeps saying this. Sure the Cubs sucked vs. LH starters, but they don't see enough of them to be overly concerned with that. FYI, Cubs OPS vs RHPs .754.....Cubs OPS vs. LHPs .755. 8th vs. RHPs, 11th vs. LHPs. The Cubs had about 3000 fewer ABs vs. LHPs. The Cubs need to get better at hitting baseballs, no matter what hand they are thrown by.

[nilodnayr]

lovchicago...without even knowing it, you agreed w/ my points exactly. I have read moneyball. In fact, I believe it to a "T"...thus my comments. I never said we needed Juan Pierre. I said we needed guys at the top that get on base. Soriano does not. He is way, way too much of a free swinger just like the rest of our lineup. I don't want Figgins, iguchi or fukudome for steals but for OBP. They are very strong with that because they understand the art of getting on base whereas Soriano has no clue. Soriano is a run producer/rbi guy. He is selfish at the plate. We will not win w/ him leading off. Why do you think Piniella wants him out of there? Hendry is the buffoon that simply does not understand or value OBP. The Red Sox resurgance under Theo Epstein is no mistake. They value OBP & making the pitcher labor. We do not. Colorado & Arizona also had better understanding of the strikezone. That's why we went down in flames.

believe it or not, but power is also important out of the leadoff spot. Afterall, that's the guy who gets the most amount of plate appearances. I'd prefer to have one of my better jitters there than figgins etc.

[JeffH]

[soriano] is selfish at the plate.

 

LOL!

[Roast]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

So you say our biggest needs are:

 

Leadoff hitter

2nd Hitter

Power lefty?

 

 

Jim Hendry, is that you?

 

 

And about your power lefty - Explain to me this. How would a "power lefty" help the fact that one of our biggest offensive faults last year was the inability to hit left handed pitchers - something Left handed batters are notoriously not great at doing.

 

I don't know why everyone keeps saying this. Sure the Cubs sucked vs. LH starters, but they don't see enough of them to be overly concerned with that. FYI, Cubs OPS vs RHPs .754.....Cubs OPS vs. LHPs .755. 8th vs. RHPs, 11th vs. LHPs. The Cubs had about 3000 fewer ABs vs. LHPs. The Cubs need to get better at hitting baseballs, no matter what hand they are thrown by.

 

Fair enough, and I can agree with that last statement. And as far as that goes I think you can just as easily say we need to get better at hitting the ball regardless of what side of the plate it's from. I still dont think it's smart to waste our time searching for a "lefty power hitter." We need someone who can get on base and hit for power. Period. I dont care if he hits left or right.

[third eye]

some of you really don't get it. We need a leadoff hitter very badly. Soriano must be moved out of the spot. We need a leadoff & a #2 along w/ a power lefty in the middle of the lineup. If this doesn't happen, we go nowhere again in '08. We need Fukodome in right to leadoff. Someone like Roberts could also leadoff w/ fuko second. If not Roberts, then someone like Iguchi would be a great 2-hole hitter. Then we need a lefty power bat like Drew, Jenkins or the like. Fuko may have to play center in that case.

So you say our biggest needs are:

 

Leadoff hitter

2nd Hitter

Power lefty?

 

 

Jim Hendry, is that you?

 

 

And about your power lefty - Explain to me this. How would a "power lefty" help the fact that one of our biggest offensive faults last year was the inability to hit left handed pitchers - something Left handed batters are notoriously not great at doing.

 

I don't know why everyone keeps saying this. Sure the Cubs sucked vs. LH starters, but they don't see enough of them to be overly concerned with that. FYI, Cubs OPS vs RHPs .754.....Cubs OPS vs. LHPs .755. 8th vs. RHPs, 11th vs. LHPs. The Cubs had about 3000 fewer ABs vs. LHPs. The Cubs need to get better at hitting baseballs, no matter what hand they are thrown by.

 

Fair enough, and I can agree with that last statement. And as far as that goes I think you can just as easily say we need to get better at hitting the ball regardless of what side of the plate it's from. I still dont think it's smart to waste our time searching for a "lefty power hitter." We need someone who can get on base and hit for power. Period. I dont care if he hits left or right.

 

word

[badnews]

Soriano should stay at leadoff because it's where he's most productive, not because he's the ideal leadoff man. Also, he gets less productive with men on base than with the bases empty, so this is not the guy I want to count on in the middle of the order. What is there to "get" about that? I also agree he's one of our better producers and it's good to have him getting the most ABs. I could imagine Soriano hitting 4th, posting an .802 OPS, getting 100 RBIs, and setting a record in LOB and people thinking the move was a huge success.

 

Anyway, Chone Figgins has really no chance to replicate last season's success. He posted a BABIP near .400 last year. If you get Figgins you'll probably get the guy from 2005-2006.

[haltz]

Anyway, Chone Figgins has really no chance to replicate last season's success. He posted a BABIP near .400 last year. If you get Figgins you'll probably get the guy from 2005-2006.

I think 2006 was just as much an aberration as last year. Probably more like 2004-2005. I'd set a 50th at around a .300 average with a .350 BABIP or so, with .270 and .330 being high and low ends. I think BABIP for hitters is kind of silly but it probably works OK for him since he's a low slugging burner. If his BB% continues to rise and he hits ten taters instead of three, I could see him having a pretty valuable year if he can hack it at a premium position like SS. I don't know much about his defense though.

 

Hmm. He's played less games at SS than I thought, and was a 2B in the minors. UZR says he's been a butcher at SS, but it's a worthless sample. I'm guessing it wouldn't be pretty.

[CuseCubFan69]

[soriano] is selfish at the plate.

 

LOL!

 

I wouldn't say selfish but he doesn't seem to adapt as well as others and makes himself a little too one dimensional.