MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[CubsGM]

My sources tell me that Jim Hendry may be adding a 6th player in this deal and it could be Fukudome.

Take this as a grain of salt or even smaller than that...

[BigbadB]

The RBI race will likely come down to Lee and Ramirez, not Ramirez and Soriano.

 

With the line up you suggested, Soriano will receive a lot of IBB's when 1b is open. Opposing pitchers will much rather pitch to Pie, Soto and Theriot much more than they would pitch to Soriano. That would be a good thing if Pie and Soto are being productive, not so good if they aren't.

[Moonshot]

Apparently DeRosa made some comments about this proposed deal, saying that it's making it difficult for him to concentrate on getting ready with this whole thing hanging over his head.

 

I swear to God, if we start tanking games in April because this stupid Roberts deal hangs over the club like a black cloud, I'm going to start killing small animals.

 

I'd like to see the quotes because it sounds unprofessional. He has a job to do. If he doesn't like the rumors he can elect to not answer questions about them (and stop reading the latest gossip as he has confessed to in the past).

 

Yeah, stop being human, DeRosa!

 

He can be human on his own time. He has a job to do. Allegedly making excuses about the trade rumors disturbing him, especially after saying as recent as last week that he wouldn't, is just stupid. He should keep those comments to himself.

 

He's actually having a pretty decent spring, I think he's hitting about .294 and has an obp somwhere around .400. So I don't know that he's making excuses, because there is nothing to make excuses for. It's not like he's having the kind of spring like, oh, I don't know, Derrek Lee? He's not hitting below the Mendoza line.

[98navigator]

Apparently DeRosa made some comments about this proposed deal, saying that it's making it difficult for him to concentrate on getting ready with this whole thing hanging over his head.

 

I swear to God, if we start tanking games in April because this stupid Roberts deal hangs over the club like a black cloud, I'm going to start killing small animals.

 

I'd like to see the quotes because it sounds unprofessional. He has a job to do. If he doesn't like the rumors he can elect to not answer questions about them (and stop reading the latest gossip as he has confessed to in the past).

 

Yeah, stop being human, DeRosa!

 

He can be human on his own time. He has a job to do. Allegedly making excuses about the trade rumors disturbing him, especially after saying as recent as last week that he wouldn't, is just stupid. He should keep those comments to himself.

 

He's actually having a pretty decent spring, I think he's hitting about .294 and has an obp somwhere around .400. So I don't know that he's making excuses, because there is nothing to make excuses for. It's not like he's having the kind of spring like, oh, I don't know, Derrek Lee? He's not hitting below the Mendoza line.

 

It doesn't matter. He should remain diplomatic about the whole thing. Roberts may well show up in the next two weeks; there's no reason for DeRosa, or any other player, to start talking about distractions. That's something a manager does to help deflect for the team (which Lou did for the younger players). I like DeRosa but he isn't the type of player who prevents a team from making a move. If the Cubs get Roberts, he will have to deal with it and be a backup. I'm sure DeRo can handle it, which is why I don't like hearing dissension this close to the end of Spring (when the trade could be coming close to fruition). He should just remain cool and not be baited by reporters.

[Soul]

Apparently DeRosa made some comments about this proposed deal, saying that it's making it difficult for him to concentrate on getting ready with this whole thing hanging over his head.

 

I swear to God, if we start tanking games in April because this stupid Roberts deal hangs over the club like a black cloud, I'm going to start killing small animals.

 

I'd like to see the quotes because it sounds unprofessional. He has a job to do. If he doesn't like the rumors he can elect to not answer questions about them (and stop reading the latest gossip as he has confessed to in the past).

 

Yeah, stop being human, DeRosa!

 

He can be human on his own time. He has a job to do. Allegedly making excuses about the trade rumors disturbing him, especially after saying as recent as last week that he wouldn't, is just stupid. He should keep those comments to himself.

 

He's actually having a pretty decent spring, I think he's hitting about .294 and has an obp somwhere around .400. So I don't know that he's making excuses, because there is nothing to make excuses for. It's not like he's having the kind of spring like, oh, I don't know, Derrek Lee? He's not hitting below the Mendoza line.

 

It doesn't matter. He should remain diplomatic about the whole thing. Roberts may well show up in the next two weeks; there's no reason for DeRosa, or any other player, to start talking about distractions. That's something a manager does to help deflect for the team (which Lou did for the younger players). I like DeRosa but he isn't the type of player who prevents a team from making a move. If the Cubs get Roberts, he will have to deal with it and be a backup. I'm sure DeRo can handle it, which is why I don't like hearing dissension this close to the end of Spring (when the trade could be coming close to fruition). He should just remain cool and not be baited by reporters.

 

It's not just DeRosa, the point is this is likely having an effect on the entire team, professional or not.

 

And I can guarantee if this thing is still hanging out there come April, and the Cubs start dropping games, people will start asking the questions. Right or wrong. You know how these things go. There might not even have been a problem to start with, but the damn media freaking out like a beehive, question after question, then suddenly players don't have their heads screwed on straight and the whole thing turns into a losing streak and a big hole to climb out of.

 

I say Hendry needs to end this thing, one way or the other, right now. End it before it finds a way to eat into your win total for the season.

[SABR Gamer]

UPDATE: ~250 Views from 200,000!

[SABR Gamer]

7107 posts is a bit absurd.

[Sweet Swinging Billy]

Not sure whether or not this has been mentioned already but Dave Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live last night, said that two of the top Orioles scouts (Bruce Kison) told him that they thought the deal between the Cubs and Baltimore would have been made a couple of weeks ago, only to find out that Peter Angelos didn't think the Orioles were getting enough in return, so he nixed the deal.

[cbbryan]

Not sure whether or not this has been mentioned already but Dave Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live last night, said that two of the top Orioles scouts (Bruce Kison) told him that they thought the deal between the Cubs and Baltimore would have been made a couple of weeks ago, only to find out that Peter Angelos didn't think the Orioles were getting enough in return, so he nixed the deal.

 

We're back to that angle again, ay!

[Yanksfan1523]

Has anyone ever found a trade that Angelos thinks he can live with?

[CarolinaCubFan]

If this deal gets done by opening day, I'll be happy. I'm excited about this move.

 

Roberts

Fukudome

 

These guys should get on base a ton. Fukudome's patience will allow Roberts to be active on the bases. Opposing pitchers will get tested right from the start of the game.

 

Lee

Aram

Soriano

 

With Roberts and Fukudome at the top, Lee shouldn't see the bases empty very often. We know he's going to give us a great OBP and good power. Aram and Soriano should be in a battle for team leader in RBI's. The OBP starts a decline and batting Soriano 5th will allow him to "lead off" for the bottom of the order.

 

Pie

Soto

Theriot

Pitcher

 

The bottom of the order needs to take pitches. Starting Pitchers will have been put to task from our 1-5 spots. Any of these young guys who swing at the first pitch need benched for a couple of days. HR's should be discouraged. Preach getting on base. Soriano, Pie, and Theriot will put a lot of speed on the bases at the bottom of the order. Playing small ball with the youngsters will help deal with the pitchers spot and transition well back to the top of the order.

 

HRs should never be discouraged. They are better than any other possible outcome in any given at bat. Young or old, any player would be stupid to give up a drivable pitch just because it's the first one. Playing small ball yields small results. Pie and Soto have 15-20 HR potential this year. Should they just slap at the ball because they are young? When do they graduate to being old enough to swing hard?

 

Poor wording on my part. HR’s can be bad for the development of young unpolished hitters such as Pie and Soto. Their success on this team is going to be based on how well they get on base. I want to see line drives going to all fields. Those line drives will begin to get hit harder and harder, with a few leaving the park. Routine fly outs and warning track power are unacceptable in my book by either Pie or Soto. Swinging for the fences isn’t going to help either player progress as a hitter.

 

Lou and his staff need to continue the development of the young players.

[Yanksfan1523]

UPDATE: ~250 Views from 200,000!

 

Is there a prize for being viewer 200,000? 250,000?

 

post 7500? 10,000?

 

Which will come first 250,000 views or 10,000 posts? should we do a poll?

 

[/sarcasm]

[NCCubFan]

Not sure whether or not this has been mentioned already but Dave Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live last night, said that two of the top Orioles scouts (Bruce Kison) told him that they thought the deal between the Cubs and Baltimore would have been made a couple of weeks ago, only to find out that Peter Angelos didn't think the Orioles were getting enough in return, so he nixed the deal.

So Bruce Kison is two people? :D

[17 Seconds]

In case anyone wanted to hear Derosa's comments on the Roberts thing:

 

http://www.670thescore.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=1655324

[badnews]

Like 15 pages ago the Roberts-at-all-costs crowd were trying to spin that there was discussion for letting this thing drag out for 3 months or into the regular season or into eternity.

 

I think we're now well past that point. Lou has identified it as a distraction, DeRosa has expressed frustration, and Aramis has had to come out in support of DeRosa. It's a distraction people.

 

Personally I don't blame DeRosa. I don't think organizations that are on-the-ball let themselves get jerked around by the clowns of baseball for this long. I mean really, can anyone imagine Theo Epstein, Brian Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Billy Beane, et al putting up with this farce for this long? I can't.

[Rob]

Not sure whether or not this has been mentioned already but Dave Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live last night, said that two of the top Orioles scouts (Bruce Kison) told him that they thought the deal between the Cubs and Baltimore would have been made a couple of weeks ago, only to find out that Peter Angelos didn't think the Orioles were getting enough in return, so he nixed the deal.

So Bruce Kison is two people? :D

 

After PA tears him in half for speaking with a member of the press, he will be...

[CubColtPacer]

Like 15 pages ago the Roberts-at-all-costs crowd were trying to spin that there was discussion for letting this thing drag out for 3 months or into the regular season or into eternity.

 

I think we're now well past that point. Lou has identified it as a distraction, DeRosa has expressed frustration, and Aramis has had to come out in support of DeRosa. It's a distraction people.

 

Personally I don't blame DeRosa. I don't think organizations that are on-the-ball let themselves get jerked around by the clowns of baseball for this long. I mean really, can anyone imagine Theo Epstein, Brian Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Billy Beane, et al putting up with this farce for this long? I can't.

 

Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein put up with the Santana trade from early November to the beginning of February when Santana was finally dealt to somebody else. And the Twins didn't even have a reason to wait on the trade like the Orioles did with the Bedard trade.

 

Plus the thing that ended that trade is Minnesota decided that they were going to stop negotiating, ask for final offers, and make the decision right then. If they hadn't decided to do that the Yankees and Red Sox might still be waiting at their door.

 

At the same time, I will say again what I said then. Opening Day. If the trade isn't done by then, the negotiations should stop and just let the players play for at least 6 weeks. If the Cubs still need Roberts after that period, they can always revisit it.

Edited March 19, 2008 by CubColtPacer

[Post Count Padder]

Not sure whether or not this has been mentioned already but Dave Kaplan on Chicago Tribune Live last night, said that two of the top Orioles scouts (Bruce Kison) told him that they thought the deal between the Cubs and Baltimore would have been made a couple of weeks ago, only to find out that Peter Angelos didn't think the Orioles were getting enough in return, so he nixed the deal.

What a surprise

[badnews]

That seems like a rather generous interpretation of the events. But it's pointless to do this back-and-forth for too long, because I see our interpretations are so far off it makes no sense to talk much about it. Epstein and Cashman were pretty hard line about it. The Yankees had their best offer on the table for what, 2 hours, and then withdrew it. That's not taking a lot of crap. It's certainly not this "Yeah but we want Felix Pie or your best three pitching prospects plus more, and you'll let us try and wheedle you out of it" crap that's been going on for even longer than the Santana trades. Plus, the Twins had other suitors. Who do the Orioles have? A rumor about the White Sox with no basis? The phantom Indians' offer that never existed? The Twins eventually said "Make us your best offer or we're taking the Mets' offer" and the Red Sox and Yankees pretty much said what you last heard from us stands. Because this is how sane organizations operate.

 

What have we heard from the Roberts' trade on our end? I've seen like ten reports the Orioles "are deciding which players they want" and so forth. Plus, I give a little more leeway to the fact that trading the best pitcher in baseball carries more import than trading the 5th best 2nd baseman in baseball. So the latter trade should certainly not take longer than the former, especially when there's only two teams involved, which makes this fiasco even dumber.

 

By now there should be nothing left for rational people to discuss really.

[moorecg]

7107 posts is a bit absurd.

 

 

"a bit" talk about understatment of the year.

[SABR Gamer]

Like 15 pages ago the Roberts-at-all-costs crowd were trying to spin that there was discussion for letting this thing drag out for 3 months or into the regular season or into eternity.

 

I think we're now well past that point. Lou has identified it as a distraction, DeRosa has expressed frustration, and Aramis has had to come out in support of DeRosa. It's a distraction people.

 

Personally I don't blame DeRosa. I don't think organizations that are on-the-ball let themselves get jerked around by the clowns of baseball for this long. I mean really, can anyone imagine Theo Epstein, Brian Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Billy Beane, et al putting up with this farce for this long? I can't.

 

Brian Cashman and Theo Epstein put up with the Santana trade from early November to the beginning of February when Santana was finally dealt to somebody else. And the Twins didn't even have a reason to wait on the trade like the Orioles did with the Bedard trade.

 

Plus the thing that ended that trade is Minnesota decided that they were going to stop negotiating, ask for final offers, and make the decision right then. If they hadn't decided to do that the Yankees and Red Sox might still be waiting at their door.

 

At the same time, I will say again what I said then. Opening Day. If the trade isn't done by then, the negotiations should stop and just let the players play for at least 6 weeks. If the Cubs still need Roberts after that period, they can always revisit it.

 

Brian Roberts is not Johan Santana. There is a big difference between getting the best pitcher in baseball and getting a guy who MIGHT be a top 5 second basemen, and is really only different from the guy we have because he is faster.

[badnews]

Like I said, the Orioles are crackpots. I can't imagine any good GM humoring them for as long as we have.

[Moonshot]

Apparently DeRosa made some comments about this proposed deal, saying that it's making it difficult for him to concentrate on getting ready with this whole thing hanging over his head.

 

I swear to God, if we start tanking games in April because this stupid Roberts deal hangs over the club like a black cloud, I'm going to start killing small animals.

 

I'd like to see the quotes because it sounds unprofessional. He has a job to do. If he doesn't like the rumors he can elect to not answer questions about them (and stop reading the latest gossip as he has confessed to in the past).

 

Yeah, stop being human, DeRosa!

 

He can be human on his own time. He has a job to do. Allegedly making excuses about the trade rumors disturbing him, especially after saying as recent as last week that he wouldn't, is just stupid. He should keep those comments to himself.

 

He's actually having a pretty decent spring, I think he's hitting about .294 and has an obp somwhere around .400. So I don't know that he's making excuses, because there is nothing to make excuses for. It's not like he's having the kind of spring like, oh, I don't know, Derrek Lee? He's not hitting below the Mendoza line.

 

It doesn't matter. He should remain diplomatic about the whole thing. Roberts may well show up in the next two weeks; there's no reason for DeRosa, or any other player, to start talking about distractions. That's something a manager does to help deflect for the team (which Lou did for the younger players). I like DeRosa but he isn't the type of player who prevents a team from making a move. If the Cubs get Roberts, he will have to deal with it and be a backup. I'm sure DeRo can handle it, which is why I don't like hearing dissension this close to the end of Spring (when the trade could be coming close to fruition). He should just remain cool and not be baited by reporters.

 

Let's say you have a career, a career you have been working at since you were 5 years old, training and working your tail off, giving it everything you have. Now let's say that your boss has gone publicly back and forth for 4 months saying that he wants to replace you.

 

If I asked you how that made you feel and you said that you were alright with that, I would question your heart. I like the fact that DeRo hasn't come out and said that he's fine with being a bench player. He believes in his abilities and wants to play. That's called being competitive. If he had rolled over and said he hopes they get Roberts, a lot of people would be on this board saying he's soft, he doesn't have the desire to play.

 

So if anything I'm glad that he would come out and say that of course he wants to play everyday, and the talks are a little bit of a distraction.

[98navigator]

Like 15 pages ago the Roberts-at-all-costs crowd were trying to spin that there was discussion for letting this thing drag out for 3 months or into the regular season or into eternity.

 

I think we're now well past that point. Lou has identified it as a distraction, DeRosa has expressed frustration, and Aramis has had to come out in support of DeRosa. It's a distraction people.

 

Personally I don't blame DeRosa. I don't think organizations that are on-the-ball let themselves get jerked around by the clowns of baseball for this long. I mean really, can anyone imagine Theo Epstein, Brian Cashman, Josh Byrnes, Billy Beane, et al putting up with this farce for this long? I can't.

 

Lou identified it was a distraction for the younger players like Cedeno and Gallagher. The talks have come this far, there's no reason to suddenly halt things. The truth is, the Roberts trade is only part of what should/could be done. Something is going to have to happen with the pitching staff as well because they have too many starters. It's apparent that some last minute moves will be made. This is an unusual offseason in general, not just for the Cubs, because other teams are also looking to make last minute moves like the Angels, Boston, and the White Sox to name a few.

[Banedon]

7107 posts is a bit absurd.

 

Yeah...7106...that's fine...but 7107...that's just wacky. ;)