MacPhail: Deal is dead (p. 297), stop posting, go outside

[17 Seconds]

Does anyone still question why I feel like Jim Hendry is acting like the gutless wonder?

 

It takes 2 parties, both of whom think they are getting a good deal, to make a trade. I'm not sure how guts enters into that.

 

This negotiation is now 3 months also and Hendry is still getting jerked around. It's pretty clear that Hendry wants to make the deal and that Baltimore is the side holding it up. That fact that Hendry has let it drag on while not saying "this is my final offer, take it or leave it" is gutless, plain and simple. Not to mention it's now created a distraction with opening day just over a week away. That's great, everyone knows how key distractions are when avoiding getting off to a slow start.

[TakeMeOutToTheBallGame]

I cant remember a proposed trade like this where all the parties involved seem to openly acknowledge and discuss the rumors. Pretty crazy. That said, either crap or get off the pot.

[badnews]

It takes 2 parties, both of whom think they are getting a good deal, to make a trade. I'm not sure how guts enters into that.

 

I'm not sure I see what that has to do with my post. I'm talking about having the guts to put an end to an asinine situation where you're being jerked around. Three months and they're "starting to" get frustrated because "they don't know what it will take to get the trade done?" Maybe if you don't know that after three months you should stop negotiating with the lunatics. It's weak. You get jerked around for that long and don't walk away, that's gutless to me. It would be like if, Doug Melvin, after being told it would take Rickie Weeks to get Chad Cordero from Washington, if he continued to negotiate with Bowden for months on end. Yeah, that doesn't make you look pathetic. Like I said, who would continue to put up with this crap? I see too much of this, "Orioles are still scouting players," "Orioles are still deciding who they want," "Cubs don't know what it will take to get this trade done," enough already, it's been enough for a long time.

 

I don't see what is difficult to understand about this. If you have something I want, but you're an unreasonable ass to me in negotiations, I continue to discuss it with you.

 

I don't understand why people aren't grasping the idea of having some pride and dignity about this. By all means let's continue to indulge in the Orioles' masturbatory negotiations instead of hard-lining them after 3 months, that shows an organization that operates with some self-respect.

[RedFlash]

Trade talks starting to wear on Roberts

 

However, the Orioles and Cubs have been negotiating for more than three months and still haven't reached a deal. The talk around baseball and among the scouts who have been at Orioles games the past couple of days is that one could be imminent, but that's been said since spring training began.

 

"I wouldn't say it would be a letdown if [a trade] doesn't happen. I'm going to play baseball either way. I love my teammates, the city of Baltimore. It's not like it would be the end of the world. But like I've said before, everybody wants to win and you always want to be in a situation where you feel like you have the best chance of doing that."

 

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

 

Let's face it, the Cubs are the only ones being the buttclowns in this. I feel sorry for both DeRosa and Roberts for being put in a VERY difficult position, because neither side knows how to negotiate a trade. I remember the Sosa trade to Baltimore took a couple of months (and cost the Cubs the chance at signing Carlos Beltran and was force to bargain signed Burnitz), so maybe Hendry still has a little hesitation about dealing with Angelos. While the Sosa trade sitation was taxing, at least it was resolved during the offseason.

 

I could see DeRosa and the Cubs getting off to a slow start because of this distration. For the love of the Cub, please I wish somebody (calling Bruce Miles, paging Dr. Miles) would tell Hendry to "Cowboy up" and tell the O's that an offer of Gallagher/Patterson and a prospect would be the final offer, and set a dang deadline. MacPhail knows what players he wants to Roberts, but he's trying to get more then what Roberts is worth. Call their bluff, Jim, please.

[rsmoler]

My guess is that MacPhail has told Hendry what he wants but Hendry doesn't want to give that up. MacPhail has been trying to maximize the return from the few assets he has and Roberts represents the last of his chips. He probably has asked for Hill and Pie or something outrageous like that and Hendry has said no way. I could see MacPhail saying if you want me to consider someone else, I've got to see them play in minor league and spring games. It could be that no package of players that the Baltimore scouts has seen have impressed MacPhail and his crew enough for them to give up their last trade chip.

 

Personnally, I don't think this trade gets done before spring training ends. Hendry has no incentive to gut his farm system for Roberts since the Cubs might be good enough to win the division without making a move. MacPhail has no incentive to trade Roberts unless he gets the package he wants. Chances are that MacPhail will get that package when some team gets desparate and no team is going to be desparate before the season starts.

[BigbadB]

Even if all the rumored players are involved in the trade, Baltimore will still suck even if they make this trade. When the smoke clears and Roberts is traded to the Cubs, all Baltimore will have gotten for Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts is Adam Jones and a bunch of guys who may or may not piece together a decent major league career. There is plenty of reason for Angelos to balk on this deal.

 

Like the guys the Giants got for Pierzynski and so forth? I don't get this line of thinking. If a guy isn't in Baseball America's Top 10 he isn't worth anything. Look at what players have been traded for lately - guys like Tejada and Roberts *shouldn't* be getting these fantastic packages people are raving about. They balked on the Tejada deal for a long time and that's why they got what they did. So more balking hardly seems to be the answer.

 

If you read my post again, you'll see that I said Angelos has plenty of reason to balk on this deal. They will suck before the season starts, they will suck at midseason and they will still suck at season's end. There is no sense of urgency on Baltimore's part to trade Roberts. Thus, Hendry just needs to move on. He's playing their game.

[Athletics36]

Hey folks lets add this to the discussion, I was just watching MASN(Orioles channel) The "Tom Davis show". They brought up an interesting point when a caller asked about the names and mentioned Cedeno. They mentioned they heard that Cedeno could possibly be released and they could grab him without the trade. If I remember correctly Cedeno is out of options and does this change the names of the players involved.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hey folks lets add this to the discussion, I was just watching MASN(Orioles channel) The "Tom Davis show". They brought up an interesting point when a caller asked about the names and mentioned Cedeno. They mentioned they heard that Cedeno could possibly be released and they could grab him without the trade. If I remember correctly Cedeno is out of options and does this change the names of the players involved.

 

Yeah, this has been mentiond before, that the Orioles might be killing time since they want Cedeno and think that they might be able to just snatch him up and thens till milk the Cubs for an extra player for Roberts. I don't see Cedeno being released if Cintron is injured, unless the Cubs do sign Lopez.

[Soul]

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

 

AAAhhh- hahahahah. Weeeee!

 

 

You know what's going to happen, right? It's obvious now. Some other team is going to swoop in and grab Roberts. It's inevitable.

[rawaction]

Hey folks lets add this to the discussion, I was just watching MASN(Orioles channel) The "Tom Davis show". They brought up an interesting point when a caller asked about the names and mentioned Cedeno. They mentioned they heard that Cedeno could possibly be released and they could grab him without the trade. If I remember correctly Cedeno is out of options and does this change the names of the players involved.

 

Yeah, this has been mentiond before, that the Orioles might be killing time since they want Cedeno and think that they might be able to just snatch him up and thens till milk the Cubs for an extra player for Roberts. I don't see Cedeno being released if Cintron is injured, unless the Cubs do sign Lopez.

 

See, this doesn't make much sense to me. If the Os want Cedeno, the only way to guarantee that they get him is if they trade for him. If he is released, he's free to go wherever he wants. The O's aren't guaranteed to get him in that case. My thinking is if they think Cedeno is going to be released maybe they think "hey Cubs, he's not good enough for your roster, why should we accept him as part of a trade for Roberts.....we want more"

[Sammy Sofa]

Hey folks lets add this to the discussion, I was just watching MASN(Orioles channel) The "Tom Davis show". They brought up an interesting point when a caller asked about the names and mentioned Cedeno. They mentioned they heard that Cedeno could possibly be released and they could grab him without the trade. If I remember correctly Cedeno is out of options and does this change the names of the players involved.

 

Yeah, this has been mentiond before, that the Orioles might be killing time since they want Cedeno and think that they might be able to just snatch him up and thens till milk the Cubs for an extra player for Roberts. I don't see Cedeno being released if Cintron is injured, unless the Cubs do sign Lopez.

 

See, this doesn't make much sense to me. If the Os want Cedeno, the only way to guarantee that they get him is if they trade for him. If he is released, he's free to go wherever he wants. The O's aren't guaranteed to get him in that case. My thinking is if they think Cedeno is going to be released maybe they think "hey Cubs, he's not good enough for your roster, why should we accept him as part of a trade for Roberts.....we want more"

 

I was trying to think from the Orioles' position of anti-logic.

[BigbadB]

Wouldn't Cedeno be released through waivers, therefore allowing the Orioles to be one of the first teams to grab him? A few teams would probably have shot ahead of Baltimore, but how many want a guy who probably takes a back seat to a veteran in a utility infield role with most teams?

[rawaction]

Wouldn't Cedeno be released through waivers, therefore allowing the Orioles to be one of the first teams to grab him? A few teams would probably have shot ahead of Baltimore, but how many want a guy who probably takes a back seat to a veteran in a utility infield role with most teams?

 

IF it's thru waivers don't all the NL teams have 1st shot at him before the worst AL team? Just confirmed this is true. If teams from each league claims a player, the claim goes to the team in the same league, regardless of record.

[Mizzou]

Does anyone still question why I feel like Jim Hendry is acting like the gutless wonder?

 

It takes 2 parties, both of whom think they are getting a good deal, to make a trade. I'm not sure how guts enters into that.

 

This negotiation is now 3 months also and Hendry is still getting jerked around. It's pretty clear that Hendry wants to make the deal and that Baltimore is the side holding it up. That fact that Hendry has let it drag on while not saying "this is my final offer, take it or leave it" is gutless, plain and simple. Not to mention it's now created a distraction with opening day just over a week away. That's great, everyone knows how key distractions are when avoiding getting off to a slow start.

I don't know if gutless is the word I'd use, but I do agree that it's pretty ridiculous that this has been going on for so long. Hendry should have given Baltimore an ultimatum a long time ago.

[wrigley23]

I agree he should have given them an ultimatum, I also think he already knew their answer...that they would just hang onto him. I think the cubs want him much worse than the O's want to move him & that's the problem. Beyond that, the cubs don't see a similar impact move in terms of upgrading the lineup from an offensive standpoint otherwise they would have done it some time ago.

[RynoRules]

Hendry may have already given MacPhail a final offer. Sometimes you give two "finals" - for example, one with Cedeno, Gallagher and EPatt and another with Murton, Cedeno and Marshall - and say to the other side, "Take your pick."

 

I don't see how Hendry has done anything wrong here. He's not driving up the price by insisting that only certain guys are available, and he clearly is not desperate, otherwise he would have already parted with guys like Pie in order to get the deal done.

 

I understand everyone is annoyed with the persistent rumors and lack of action, but I think some are being hypercritical of Jim here.

[rawaction]

Hendry may have already given MacPhail a final offer. Sometimes you give two "finals" - for example, one with Cedeno, Gallagher and EPatt and another with Murton, Cedeno and Marshall - and say to the other side, "Take your pick."

 

I don't see how Hendry has done anything wrong here. He's not driving up the price by insisting that only certain guys are available, and he clearly is not desperate, otherwise he would have already parted with guys like Pie in order to get the deal done.

 

I understand everyone is annoyed with the persistent rumors and lack of action, but I think some are being hypercritical of Jim here.

 

Maybe he is willing to give up Pie, but won't do it unless he has another CF. Maybe he has a deal for that other CF, but is waiting to hear if the O's want the Cubs to take back Payton. :flame:

[Andy]

When asked if the trade will go down, three different Orioles officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, gave three different answers. One said yes, one said no and the other said it was "50-50".

 

AAAhhh- hahahahah. Weeeee!

 

 

You know what's going to happen, right? It's obvious now. Some other team is going to swoop in and grab Roberts. It's inevitable.

I would be perfectly fine with that at the price the O's seem to be asking.

[RedFlash]

Hey folks lets add this to the discussion, I was just watching MASN(Orioles channel) The "Tom Davis show". They brought up an interesting point when a caller asked about the names and mentioned Cedeno. They mentioned they heard that Cedeno could possibly be released and they could grab him without the trade. If I remember correctly Cedeno is out of options and does this change the names of the players involved.

 

Yeah, this has been mentiond before, that the Orioles might be killing time since they want Cedeno and think that they might be able to just snatch him up and thens till milk the Cubs for an extra player for Roberts. I don't see Cedeno being released if Cintron is injured, unless the Cubs do sign Lopez.

 

Agreed. I could see Hendry being abit ticked off about how long this has dragged out, that if he comes to the conclusion that is what the O's are trying to do (wait for Cedeno to be released, and then ask for a new 4th player, to essentially make it a 5 player trade), I could see Hendry being petty enough to keep Cedeno on the roster for two reasons: 1: The Cubs need a legit SS on the roster, and 2: The keep the O's from picking him up.

 

So again, I don't see that scenerio playing out. If the O's want Cedeno, there more likely to have to trade for him.

[JGalt73]

Nothing really new from Peter Gammons:

 

Gammons 03.22.08[/url]"]The Cubs still don't know where talks on Brian Roberts stand. They still hope the Matt Murton-Marlon Byrd trade, which is actually one-sided for Texas, happens, but will not throw extra prospects in with Murton.

[17 Seconds]

What a joke. Way to man up Jim.

[Sammy Sofa]

What a joke. Way to man up Jim.

 

YAH!!! UZE YER PENIS, D00D!!!!

[Post Count Padder]

Nothing really new from Peter Gammons:

 

Gammons 03.22.08[/url]"]The Cubs still don't know where talks on Brian Roberts stand. They still hope the Matt Murton-Marlon Byrd trade, which is actually one-sided for Texas, happens, but will not throw extra prospects in with Murton.

#-o

[17 Seconds]

What a joke. Way to man up Jim.

 

YAH!!! UZE YER PENIS, D00D!!!!

 

Well done.

[RynoRules]

What a joke. Way to man up Jim.

 

Man up and do what? Hold MacPhail's family hostage until he agrees to deal Roberts?

 

I am sorry, but your comment is stupid.