Rosenthal: Cubs Showing Interest in Jenkins

[nilodnayr]

I didn't really think it was necessary to start a new thread just to throw a new name around, but I was just wondering if someone smarter than me could tell me the general consensus on the Diamondbacks Carlos Gonzalez....I saw a blurb on rotoworld saying that they were looking for a starter to replace Livan, and that he was their best trading chip available. All I really know about him is that he is a 21 year old left handed outfielder....

 

Basically I'm just wondering if A. He could potentially be ready to play in the majors next year/platoon in right in Murton B. If he's not quite ready and platooning him would just stunt his growth and C. Do we have anything near what it takes to go after him, if he's even worth it?

 

I'm aware this is completely out of nowhere, but I've been trying to look at anything to try and fix this right field thing, since it looks like the Cubs are set with "fan-favorite" Theriot at short. The Diamondback's need starting pitching, and we seem to have a surplus of potential starters...a 21 year old Lefty corner outfielder wouldn't be too bad to acquire, assuming the price wasn't too steep...

 

It would be a brilliant move on the Cubs part to get a guy like Carlos Gonzalez, however, it will never happen. The Cubs aren't willing to give their own prospects a chance. How on Earth is someone else's prospect going to get that chance?

Because our prospects aren't very good. This guy is good.

 

 

If the Diamondbacks need a SP, send them Marquis and a prospect.

Gonzalez is a no brainer top 50 prospect and possibly/probably top 25. In other words...you've set the bar pretty high for most ridiculous trade proposal of the day.

 

Thanks for being such an ass about it. u could have merely said that wouldn't get it done/be enough. It's replies like this that keep me away from most discussions on this board.

 

Sorry, but when people propose receiving one of the best products in the game for a guy on our team that we couldn't give away for nothing, thats the response you are going to get.

[SouthSideRyan]

I think whatever Sean Marshall did to Jim Hendry's dog, Rich Hill did to half the people on this board's sisters. Rich Hill is a very valuable commodity, and it doesn't seem like we're ever gaining anything by trading him away in any of these proposals.

[squally1313]

I think whatever Sean Marshall did to Jim Hendry's dog, Rich Hill did to half the people on this board's sisters. Rich Hill is a very valuable commodity, and it doesn't seem like we're ever gaining anything by trading him away in any of these proposals.

 

 

I agree that Rich Hill is a great pitcher, but I'd rather have Bedard's 146 ERA+ out of the AL East than Hill's 119 ERA+ out of the NL Central. I definitely think Rich Hill is already a number 2 pitcher, and maybe could become an ace, but he just seems like a guy Arizona would love to pencil in as the number 2 guy behind Webb. That only strengthens our package that we could offer to Baltimore.

 

In my opinion, going into next year I think having Bedard/Tejada/(Dempster, Prior, Hart, etc) at #2 pitcher/Shortstop/#5 pitcher is a lot better than Hill/Theriot/Marshall. Bedard put up better stats (WHIP, K/9, BB/9, ERA) in a much better division. Tejada is obviously an upgrade, at least short term, over Theriot/Infante/Cedeno, and while I think Marshall is better than any of the options we would have at the #5, I don't think the difference is that much, or near enough to overcome the advantage gained in Bedard vs Hill and Tejada vs Theriot. Plus, as you said, the organization clearly doesn't like Marshall, much like Murton and Cedeno, so who knows where Marshall would even be next year if we don't make any moves.

[nilodnayr]

If ERA is a poor predictor, then how is ERA+ not?

[abuck1220]

rich hill for carlos gonzalez? come on.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Rich Hill through age 27 looks a whole lot like Erik Bedard through age 27.

[SCCubbieFAN]

I didn't really think it was necessary to start a new thread just to throw a new name around, but I was just wondering if someone smarter than me could tell me the general consensus on the Diamondbacks Carlos Gonzalez....I saw a blurb on rotoworld saying that they were looking for a starter to replace Livan, and that he was their best trading chip available. All I really know about him is that he is a 21 year old left handed outfielder....

 

Basically I'm just wondering if A. He could potentially be ready to play in the majors next year/platoon in right in Murton B. If he's not quite ready and platooning him would just stunt his growth and C. Do we have anything near what it takes to go after him, if he's even worth it?

 

I'm aware this is completely out of nowhere, but I've been trying to look at anything to try and fix this right field thing, since it looks like the Cubs are set with "fan-favorite" Theriot at short. The Diamondback's need starting pitching, and we seem to have a surplus of potential starters...a 21 year old Lefty corner outfielder wouldn't be too bad to acquire, assuming the price wasn't too steep...

 

It would be a brilliant move on the Cubs part to get a guy like Carlos Gonzalez, however, it will never happen. The Cubs aren't willing to give their own prospects a chance. How on Earth is someone else's prospect going to get that chance?

Because our prospects aren't very good. This guy is good.

 

 

If the Diamondbacks need a SP, send them Marquis and a prospect.

Gonzalez is a no brainer top 50 prospect and possibly/probably top 25. In other words...you've set the bar pretty high for most ridiculous trade proposal of the day.

 

Thanks for being such an ass about it. u could have merely said that wouldn't get it done/be enough. It's replies like this that keep me away from most discussions on this board.

 

Sorry, but when people propose receiving one of the best products in the game for a guy on our team that we couldn't give away for nothing, thats the response you are going to get.

 

 

So what you are saying is don't expect any civility out of you/your response if you deem the post to be ridiculous, eh? you've been on this board quite awhile and I have never noticed your comments to be like this. I therefore would have expected better out of you. or perhaps I just haven't been paying close attention to your past remarks.

[nilodnayr]

If we are sending 2 of Pie, Gonzalez, and Murton...its going to be Pie and Gonzalez we are going to send. And Cedeno, Marshall, plus pitching is going to have to also include Marmol and Gallagher.

 

Gonzalez, Pie, Marmol, Gallagher, Cedeno, Marshall, Samardzija, Hart might be a starting point.

 

Of course, then we have traded away much of our farm system/young talent for two years of Bedard/Tejada while adding about $35M/year to the payroll.

 

Why don't we just keep Hill, trade a package centered around Marmol, Patterson, others for Tejada, and sign Fukudome?

[squally1313]

rich hill for carlos gonzalez? come on.

 

Like I said, I was just throwing out ideas. I know Rich Hill is a great pitcher, and I would never do the first trade if I didn't have the second one in line and confirmed. But I know Arizona needs starting pitching, and I know Baltimore needs outfielders. Arizona gets a solid number 2 for one of their many outfield prospects (Quentin, Young, and Upton, along with Byrnes and Salazar), Baltimore would get a number 5 pitcher, a young shortstop to replace Tejada, two outfielders that could conceivably start with Markakis in Pie/Gonzalez and Murton, and we would upgrade from Hill to Bedard, and obviously Theriot to Tejada, which would cost us only Marshall, Murton, Cedeno and whatever prospects we would need to finish the Baltimore deal, since we would still have a young top outfield prospect.

 

I would hate to see Hill go, but Bedard put up better numbers in almost every single category, against significantly better competition. And since it's been mentioned many times how we weren't even that bad in right field last year, upgrading Shortstop would help our offense the most.

[abuck1220]

Rich Hill through age 27 looks a whole lot like Erik Bedard through age 27.

 

i was fine with arguing for rich hill's greatness before he was great, but i didn't think i'd have to continue arguing for it after he became great.

[TruffleShuffle]

Rich Hill through age 27 looks a whole lot like Erik Bedard through age 27.

 

i was fine with arguing for rich hill's greatness before he was great, but i didn't think i'd have to continue arguing for it after he became great.

 

i'd say you're being fairly liberal with the use of "great" here, and you know i'm one of rich's biggest fans on this board

[nilodnayr]

 

 

So what you are saying is don't expect any civility out of you/your response if you deem the post to be ridiculous, eh? you've been on this board quite awhile and I have never noticed your comments to be like this. I therefore would have expected better out of you. or perhaps I just haven't been paying close attention to your past remarks.

I apologize for being a jerk.

[abuck1220]

Rich Hill through age 27 looks a whole lot like Erik Bedard through age 27.

 

i was fine with arguing for rich hill's greatness before he was great, but i didn't think i'd have to continue arguing for it after he became great.

 

i'd say you're being fairly liberal with the use of "great" here, and you know i'm one of rich's biggest fans on this board

 

yeah, i was joking. though he was probably a top 15-20 starter in the NL...and that's w/o factoring in how cheap he is.

[brinoch]

Good, now that everything is smoothed over among our fine posters...

 

I wouldn't mind a Murton/Jenkins platoon in RF with Fukudome in CF -- as a last result. I'm more and more taken with the idea of signing Fukudome for CF, rather than RF. That would mean that one of our more valuable prospects -- Pie -- is expendable to be used in a trade for a SS.

 

It's a pretty thin market for shortstops, unfortunately, and that makes a good deal that much more important. Personally, I would try to acquire one of Orlando Cabrera, Miguel Tejada or Khalil Greene; all three are likely to provide 16-19 runs more than Theriot over the course of the season, which is pretty significant. I know that SD is looking for a CF, so a deal including Pie could be a decent match. In the world where we can get Greene and Fukudome, I rather like that team.

 

Under these circumstances, I could see us ending up with two options (second in parenthesis):

C - Soto

1B - Lee

2B - DeRosa

3B - Ramirez

SS - Greene (Theriot)

LF - Soriano

CF - Fukudome (Pie)

RF - Murton (Fukudome)

 

I think the first option is a better team, all in all.

[nilodnayr]

Good, now that everything is smoothed over among our fine posters...

 

I wouldn't mind a Murton/Jenkins platoon in RF with Fukudome in CF -- as a last result. I'm more and more taken with the idea of signing Fukudome for CF, rather than RF. That would mean that one of our more valuable prospects -- Pie -- is expendable to be used in a trade for a SS.

 

It's a pretty thin market for shortstops, unfortunately, and that makes a good deal that much more important. Personally, I would try to acquire one of Orlando Cabrera, Miguel Tejada or Khalil Greene; all three are likely to provide 16-19 runs more than Theriot over the course of the season, which is pretty significant. I know that SD is looking for a CF, so a deal including Pie could be a decent match. In the world where we can get Greene and Fukudome, I rather like that team.

 

Under these circumstances, I could see us ending up with two options (second in parenthesis):

C - Soto

1B - Lee

2B - DeRosa

3B - Ramirez

SS - Greene (Theriot)

LF - Soriano

CF - Fukudome (Pie)

RF - Murton (Fukudome)

 

I think the first option is a better team, all in all.

 

Using 2007 MLv:

Theriot provided negative 17.8 runs

Greene provided 0 runs

Cabrera provided 2.6 runs

Tejada provided 11.9 runs

 

Greene would be fine if we had above average offensive production (especially OBP) and groundball pitchers, but we don't.

[JeffH]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

[SCCubbieFAN]

 

 

So what you are saying is don't expect any civility out of you/your response if you deem the post to be ridiculous, eh? you've been on this board quite awhile and I have never noticed your comments to be like this. I therefore would have expected better out of you. or perhaps I just haven't been paying close attention to your past remarks.

I apologize for being a jerk.

 

 

thanks. I appreciate that.

[Post Count Padder]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

.659 career home OPS

.849 career away OPS

[TruffleShuffle]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

.659 career home OPS

.849 career away OPS

 

he swings at too much and doesn't draw enough walks, but he's still a mile better than any of the trash that we have available at SS.

[brinoch]

 

Using 2007 MLv:

Theriot provided negative 17.8 runs

Greene provided 0 runs

Cabrera provided 2.6 runs

Tejada provided 11.9 runs

 

Greene would be fine if we had above average offensive production (especially OBP) and groundball pitchers, but we don't.

 

I'm all for more OBP -- don't get me wrong -- but Greene is a marked upgrade over Theriot, and that's really the point -- find upgrades for the weak positions, SS, C, CF, and RF. Given that RF was the best of the bad bunch, and C is covered by Soto, SS and CF are the best places to upgrade the team. MLV indicates that Greene is a 17.8 run upgrade over Theriot, that's a nice upgrade. So where's the problem?

[brinoch]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

.659 career home OPS

.849 career away OPS

 

he swings at too much and doesn't draw enough walks, but he's still a mile better than any of the trash that we have available at SS.

 

He might not be available, either. But upgrading SS is where I believe we can get the most bang for the buck. Even a marginally decent SS, like Alex Gonzalez from the Reds, is a huge step up from Theriot. Sometimes you can't get a superstar, but our SS production was so bad that we don't need a superstar to make upgrading worthwhile.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Using 2007 MLv:

Theriot provided negative 17.8 runs

Greene provided 0 runs

Cabrera provided 2.6 runs

Tejada provided 11.9 runs

 

Greene would be fine if we had above average offensive production (especially OBP) and groundball pitchers, but we don't.

 

I'm all for more OBP -- don't get me wrong -- but Greene is a marked upgrade over Theriot, and that's really the point -- find upgrades for the weak positions, SS, C, CF, and RF. Given that RF was the best of the bad bunch, and C is covered by Soto, SS and CF are the best places to upgrade the team. MLV indicates that Greene is a 17.8 run upgrade over Theriot, that's a nice upgrade. So where's the problem?

 

I'm pro-Green. He's got flaws, but he could be such an enormous improvement over what the Cubs have at SS, that it could be a bigger upgrade than just about anything else they do this year.

[nilodnayr]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

.659 career home OPS

.849 career away OPS

 

he swings at too much and doesn't draw enough walks, but he's still a mile better than any of the trash that we have available at SS.

 

I agree. He just doesn't bring to the table what this team needs.

 

Also, its best to adjust his home stats, rather than just throw them away.

[BigbadB]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

.659 career home OPS

.849 career away OPS

 

he swings at too much and doesn't draw enough walks, but he's still a mile better than any of the trash that we have available at SS.

 

He might not be available, either. But upgrading SS is where I believe we can get the most bang for the buck. Even a marginally decent SS, like Alex Gonzalez from the Reds, is a huge step up from Theriot. Sometimes you can't get a superstar, but our SS production was so bad that we don't need a superstar to make upgrading worthwhile.

 

I'd love to get Jhonny Peralta. Asdrubal Cabrera is SS and Cleveland needs to get Josh Barfield back on track at 2b. We just need to find what Cleveland needs to rid themselves of Peralta.

[jersey cubs fan]

Have you seen Khalil Greene's statistics away from Petco?

.659 career home OPS

.849 career away OPS

 

he swings at too much and doesn't draw enough walks, but he's still a mile better than any of the trash that we have available at SS.

 

I agree. He just doesn't bring to the table what this team needs.

 

Also, its best to adjust his home stats, rather than just throw them away.

 

this team needs something from SS though, and that's probably the biggest need.