Levine: Soto called up; 3 teams interested in Izturis

[jersey cubs fan]

We've been hoping for a CF transaction since the winter meetings and it hasn't happened. I like to think most of us went into this season knowing CF would likely be an issue, but maybe not.

 

I don't get what you're trying to say. Yes, we've known CF was in doubt all year. I believe consensus was to let Jacque play there and hope for the best. That's been a disaster as he's been worse than most thought.

[Soul]

We've been hoping for a CF transaction since the winter meetings and it hasn't happened. I like to think most of us went into this season knowing CF would likely be an issue, but maybe not.

 

I don't get what you're trying to say. Yes, we've known CF was in doubt all year. I believe consensus was to let Jacque play there and hope for the best. That's been a disaster as he's been worse than most thought.

 

Point is, we don't have an option in the organization that will work and we haven't all year. The consensus was also that we leave Pie down -- we pressed him into service, and he quite predicatbly failed. He's 22, and doesn't know how to hit yet. Jones is 32, and fading fast.

 

Barring a trade, there's not going to be a white horse to ride in and save the day in '07 for CF. We knew this, so why all the handwringing now about a decision to put Pie down for more development and play Jones? There's no savior here; other parts of the ballclub will just need to pick up the slack.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Point is, we don't have an option in the organization that will work and we haven't all year. The consensus was also that we leave Pie down -- we pressed him into service, and he quite predicatbly failed. He's 22, and doesn't know how to hit yet. Jones is 32, and fading fast.

 

Again, you are terribly, terribly wrong.

[jersey cubs fan]

We've been hoping for a CF transaction since the winter meetings and it hasn't happened. I like to think most of us went into this season knowing CF would likely be an issue, but maybe not.

 

I don't get what you're trying to say. Yes, we've known CF was in doubt all year. I believe consensus was to let Jacque play there and hope for the best. That's been a disaster as he's been worse than most thought.

 

Point is, we don't have an option in the organization that will work and we haven't all year. The consensus was also that we leave Pie down -- we pressed him into service, and he quite predicatbly failed. He's 22, and doesn't know how to hit yet. Jones is 32, and fading fast.

 

Barring a trade, there's not going to be a white horse to ride in and save the day in '07 for CF. We knew this, so why all the handwringing now about a decision to put Pie down for more development and play Jones? There's no savior here; other parts of the ballclub will just need to pick up the slack.

 

Pie showed flashes, including patience, and has the track record in the minors that would justify letting him work through a slump at the major league level. It's not about being a savior.

[Guancous]

I'd rather have Felix Pie long term than Hunter Pence. However, I have no problem sending him down and letting Jones play until the trade deadline.

[Soul]

Point is, we don't have an option in the organization that will work and we haven't all year. The consensus was also that we leave Pie down -- we pressed him into service, and he quite predicatbly failed. He's 22, and doesn't know how to hit yet. Jones is 32, and fading fast.

 

Again, you are terribly, terribly wrong.

 

Again, no, I'm not.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I think Pence will be a much better major league hitter than Pie, though Pie will play much better defense.

[Roast]

Point is, we don't have an option in the organization that will work and we haven't all year. The consensus was also that we leave Pie down -- we pressed him into service, and he quite predicatbly failed. He's 22, and doesn't know how to hit yet. Jones is 32, and fading fast.

 

Again, you are terribly, terribly wrong.

 

Again, no, I'm not.

 

I agree with TT here.

 

Pie came up and, no, he didnt fail. He hit very well when he first came up, plus his patience was much better. However, he went into a 2-week-or-so slump and then we stopped playing him.

 

He's young, yes. But he's learned all that he can learn in AAA as, if i recall correctly, he was tearing it up down there before we brought him up. He just needs to see ML pitching every day and he'll work himself out of his slump.

[Soul]

Point is, we don't have an option in the organization that will work and we haven't all year. The consensus was also that we leave Pie down -- we pressed him into service, and he quite predicatbly failed. He's 22, and doesn't know how to hit yet. Jones is 32, and fading fast.

 

Again, you are terribly, terribly wrong.

 

Again, no, I'm not.

 

I agree with TT here.

 

Pie came up and, no, he didnt fail. He hit very well when he first came up, plus his patience was much better. However, he went into a 2-week-or-so slump and then we stopped playing him.

 

He's young, yes. But he's learned all that he can learn in AAA as, if i recall correctly, he was tearing it up down there before we brought him up. He just needs to see ML pitching every day and he'll work himself out of his slump.

 

Well, just for the record, and so people don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying Pie's a fail-URE, just that he's not ready yet.

[jersey cubs fan]

Well, just for the record, and so people don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying Pie's a fail-URE, just that he's not ready yet.

 

I'm not sure how one comes to that conclusion. It's not as if he did nothing in the majors. He looked really good at times. He had a 2 week slump, and they didn't allow him to work through that.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Well, just for the record, and so people don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying Pie's a fail-URE, just that he's not ready yet.

 

and how does he go about proving that he's ready? isn't his 1006 AAA OPS enough?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Well, just for the record, and so people don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying Pie's a fail-URE, just that he's not ready yet.

 

I'm not sure how one comes to that conclusion. It's not as if he did nothing in the majors. He looked really good at times. He had a 2 week slump, and they didn't allow him to work through that.

 

Yes, this. And it's not as if they flew him to the majors. He was in his second season of AAA and hit nearly .400 for a 1.000+ OPS in around 150 PA's.

[Guest]

.389/.443/.563/1.006 OPS; 13 K : 17 BB in his second season at AAA but he's not ready for the big leagues?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Free Felix!

[Soul]

Well, just for the record, and so people don't get the wrong idea, I'm not saying Pie's a fail-URE, just that he's not ready yet.

 

I'm not sure how one comes to that conclusion. It's not as if he did nothing in the majors. He looked really good at times. He had a 2 week slump, and they didn't allow him to work through that.

 

Yes, this. And it's not as if they flew him to the majors. He was in his second season of AAA and hit nearly .400 for a 1.000+ OPS in around 150 PA's.

 

That's cool. I'll take the lone-wolf opinion on this. I think it's madness to say he was just in a temporary slump. He regressed badly from what I saw, it didn't look like, say, Derek Lee when he has a funk. He looked completely lost at the plate to me many times. Overmatched.

 

I know his AAA numbers. While impressive, I don't see how prior AAA numbers mean he's ready for the majors when he just got bitch-slapped up here. He needed help, more than just getting beat up by more major leaguers in the hopes that he'll pull out of it. He's 22, a kid, and he was getting completely owned by the big boys. I was happy to have him getting instruction from the big league hitting coach rather than being sent out to be slaughtered every day and repeat bad habits. If that's not going to happen, then the next best thing is to have him re-tool in the minors for a spell.

 

In short, I'm completely, totally, and in all other ways on board with Lou on this one.

 

I just don't see it the same as all of you.

[RichHillIsABeast]

.389/.443/.563/1.006 OPS; 13 K : 17 BB in his second season at AAA but he's not ready for the big leagues?

 

Maybe it's the rest of his minor league track record...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

.389/.443/.563/1.006 OPS; 13 K : 17 BB in his second season at AAA but he's not ready for the big leagues?

 

Maybe it's the rest of his minor league track record...

 

You mean his .294/.353/.459/.812 line while being 1-2 years younger than his level? What of it?

[TruffleShuffle]

.389/.443/.563/1.006 OPS; 13 K : 17 BB in his second season at AAA but he's not ready for the big leagues?

 

to be fair, his .435 BABIP was helping his numbers just a bit

[abuck1220]

hill wasn't ready for the big leagues in 2006 either.

 

it's just a shame the cubs can't produce a few guys who immediately come up to the big leagues and put up all star caliber numbers.

[Jazz]

I think once we sort out the mess that is the depth chart, then we can bring up Pie and start to give him regular playing time.

 

IMO, once we see a trade for a decent regular at OF, or C (or if soto starts producing consitently) then we can plug Pie in the lineup so that we can afford his struggles. Right now, Floyd IMO is pretty much a vs. righty only guy. Find a platoon partner for him (since pagan isn't to good against lefties either) that can play good defense, and then stick Pie in CF. My hope though is we get Dunn or Griffey, and after myriad of roster moves, the 25-man works out as follows.

 

C - Soto, Bowen

IF - Lee, Ramirez, Derosa, Theriot, Fontenot, Ward, Cedeno

OF - Soriano, , Pie, Floyd, Pagan

SP - Zambrano, Hill, Lilly, Marquis, Marshall

RP - Wuertz, Marmol, Dempster, Ohman, Eyre, Howry

 

im hoping Dunn is the acquisition, since Griffey might cost us Marshall, and create a hole in the rotation. You DFA or unload Izturis and Jones. call up cedeno and you get:

 

Soriano

Theriot/Cedeno

Lee

Dunn

Ramirez

Derosa/Fontenot

Pie

Soto

[Irrelevant Dude]

im hoping Dunn is the acquisition, since Griffey might cost us Marshall, and create a hole in the rotation.

If Griffey only cost us Marshall, I would be fine with that. We're not going to get him for a couple mediocre prospects and I would be fine dealing one of our soft-tossing lefties for a huge left-handed bat. Yes it would create somewhat of a hole in the 5 spot, but most other teams have that same hole.

[Jazz]

im hoping Dunn is the acquisition, since Griffey might cost us Marshall, and create a hole in the rotation.

If Griffey only cost us Marshall, I would be fine with that. We're not going to get him for a couple mediocre prospects and I would be fine dealing one of our soft-tossing lefties for a huge left-handed bat. Yes it would create somewhat of a hole in the 5 spot, but most other teams have that same hole.

 

but creating a hole to fix another is lateral progression. If we had someone who was near ML-ready even to take the reins over the 5th starter spot I'd be fine with moving Marshall, but since Dempster would be the best canidate when he gets back, I'd rather not go down that path.

[A New Era]

Why worry about it? Just worry about the cubs winning.

 

Like you said Vance, the kid is still like 1-2 years younger than the average age of MLB breakout, isn't he?

 

Jones is being showcased right now. Now if by some miracle Jones plays so well. They will either trade him for a salary dump and bring Pie back up. Or keep him if full playing time shows he can put up better #'s.

 

I really beleive they want to bring Pie back up, and will trade Jones if he can up his value a little bit.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

im hoping Dunn is the acquisition, since Griffey might cost us Marshall, and create a hole in the rotation.

If Griffey only cost us Marshall, I would be fine with that. We're not going to get him for a couple mediocre prospects and I would be fine dealing one of our soft-tossing lefties for a huge left-handed bat. Yes it would create somewhat of a hole in the 5 spot, but most other teams have that same hole.

 

but creating a hole to fix another is lateral progression. If we had someone who was near ML-ready even to take the reins over the 5th starter spot I'd be fine with moving Marshall, but since Dempster would be the best canidate when he gets back, I'd rather not go down that path.

 

gaining Griffey closes a bigger hole than losing Marshall will create

[Transmogrified Tiger]

im hoping Dunn is the acquisition, since Griffey might cost us Marshall, and create a hole in the rotation.

If Griffey only cost us Marshall, I would be fine with that. We're not going to get him for a couple mediocre prospects and I would be fine dealing one of our soft-tossing lefties for a huge left-handed bat. Yes it would create somewhat of a hole in the 5 spot, but most other teams have that same hole.

 

but creating a hole to fix another is lateral progression. If we had someone who was near ML-ready even to take the reins over the 5th starter spot I'd be fine with moving Marshall, but since Dempster would be the best canidate when he gets back, I'd rather not go down that path.

 

gaining Griffey closes a bigger hole than losing Marshall will create

 

Floyd/Fontenot > Mateo/Gallagher/Miller/Dempster/Marmol

 

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot Murton.

 

Murton >> Mateo/Gallagher/Miller/Dempster/Marmol/Ichiro/Guzman

Edited July 14, 2007 by Transmogrified Tiger