Cardinals Pitcher Josh Hancock Dies in Car Crash

[chuckywang]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

[Guest]

Should MLB take the NFL stance?

 

I have to think this is weighing very heavily on LaRussa.

 

The NFL's stand on DUI's isn't really all that harsh, compared to their stance against other behavior.

 

I think there should be an automatic suspension for DUIs, although the union would fight that. The problem is far too many people view DUIs as a victimless crime akin to speeding or parking tickets, only with harsher penalties.

 

Teams need to step up and better police their guys after hours. Stress the importance of taking cabs after drinking.

 

What they can't do is just brush aside DUIs like some sort of groin pull, an unfortunate, but inevitable nuisance that can't be avoided.

 

I meant more the general position of the NFL, which has become to police the players off the field.

 

I think perhaps there should be minimum suspensions for convictions of crimes. Drinking and driving is just entirely inexcusable and perhaps should have its own standards.

 

1st offense - 1 game suspension

2nd offense - 5 games and required rehab

3rd offense - 50 games.

[radarluv1]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

[chuckywang]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

[radarluv1]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

Where did you hear that?

[The Voice of Reason]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

 

Why drive in that specific area to "get himself tired?" I bet he lived nowhere close to the land of Strip Joints. The cops were probably Cardinal fans and gave him a pass.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

 

 

Do you believe your employer is doing the right thing?

[moorecg]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

 

Why drive in that specific area to "get himself tired?" I bet he lived nowhere close to the land of Strip Joints. The cops were probably Cardinal fans and gave him a pass.

 

I live here, and I feel safe in saying that no one, and I mean no one, just "goes for a drive" in that part of town. I'm not saying anything else...just that I wouldn't buy a "i'm out for a drive" story at 5:30 in the morning there...in fact, if I were a cop I'd from then on assume the guy was full of it.

[soccer10k]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and guess the incident that got him a $500 fine wasn't his first time.

[snoodmonger]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in our personal life?

 

I don't think taking a firm stance against DWI is mandating morality. Morality is vague and open to interpretation depending on one's beliefs. DWI is breaking a hard and fast law that can have severe consequences, both legal and otherwise.

 

 

So while an organization can't (and shouldn't) dictate whether or not you drink, go to strip clubs, etc., it can (and maybe should) have a firm policy against alcohol related crimes.

[chuckywang]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

Where did you hear that?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2854743

 

Hancock wanted to drive his vehicle home from the Sauget police station but could not because the accident damaged its radiator. While waiting for a cab that eventually took him home, Delaney said, Hancock told another officer he hated following a Cardinals night game with a daytime one, and that he routinely drove around to make himself tired enough to rest, the chief said.

 

"He said how he hated -- he used that word -- to play day games after a night game, that he had trouble sleeping and was out driving around," Delaney said.

[indifferent]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

 

 

Do you believe your employer is doing the right thing?

 

Since it's a school, yeah, I'd think so. Same with a pilot or anyone involved with public transport. But under the influence and hungover are two different things, you wouldn't get terminated if you were talking with co-workers about being hungover, would you, Vance?

[indifferent]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in our personal life?

 

I don't think taking a firm stance against DWI is mandating morality. Morality is vague and open to interpretation depending on one's beliefs. DWI is breaking a hard and fast law that can have severe consequences, both legal and otherwise.

 

 

So while an organization can't (and shouldn't) dictate whether or not you drink, go to strip clubs, etc., it can (and maybe should) have a firm policy against alcohol related crimes.

 

Agreed. Many companies do a credit check prior to hiring, so I'd think a driving record/DUI check is acceptable especially if they/you rely on a vehicle to get to work or at work.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in our personal life?

 

I don't think taking a firm stance against DWI is mandating morality. Morality is vague and open to interpretation depending on one's beliefs. DWI is breaking a hard and fast law that can have severe consequences, both legal and otherwise.

 

 

So while an organization can't (and shouldn't) dictate whether or not you drink, go to strip clubs, etc., it can (and maybe should) have a firm policy against alcohol related crimes.

 

 

Personally I think if you get one DWI and then you fired it's a little scary. But I'm not a huge fan of things like drunk tests for most jobs.

[soccer10k]

It comes as no surprise to me that La Russa is now trying to coverup Hancock's escapades and attacking the media. When it comes to discussing DUI's, he has no crediblity. He should address (not hide) the problem of athletes drinking and driving and become part of the solution, not an enabler to he problem.

 

I completely agree. LaRussa is being hypocritical in his statements in the article Chris posted the link to.

 

La Russa seemed to fire a pre-emptive shot at the media Monday. He said he told his club to be leery of the media seeking to exploit events. "I also had a very important caution: Be careful of the insincerity of some media people … trying to befriend you then trying to slam you with something that they want to turn this into, some kind of story that's not all sweet," La Russa said. "I've already seen signs of that. I'm sitting here listening. The first time I hear insincerity I'll start swinging this fungo because it doesn't have its place."

 

Pressed about his message, La Russa said, "I'm just talking about people who really don't care about us, who are out there trying to further their own agendas. That's exactly what I mean."

 

LaRussa is talking about the media "trying to further their own agendas" when he is doing exactly that. He realizes that if he condemns drinking and driving, he's screwing himself and that's the last thing he wants to do. So now he's trying to downplay a serious problem because he doesn't want to shed any more negative light on himself.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

 

 

Do you believe your employer is doing the right thing?

 

Since it's a school, yeah, I'd think so. Same with a pilot or anyone involved with public transport. But under the influence and hungover are two different things, you wouldn't get terminated if you were talking with co-workers about being hungover, would you, Vance?

 

 

What does a DUI have to do with being an effective teacher?

[imb]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

 

 

Do you believe your employer is doing the right thing?

 

Since it's a school, yeah, I'd think so. Same with a pilot or anyone involved with public transport. But under the influence and hungover are two different things, you wouldn't get terminated if you were talking with co-workers about being hungover, would you, Vance?

 

 

What does a DUI have to do with being an effective teacher?

 

There's a lot more to teaching than just telling kids their multiplication tables and teaching how to diagram a sentence.

 

Teacher's are/can/should be role models to impressionable kids, and a guy or girl who drinks and drives isn't exactly fitting that bill.

[UK1679666180]

You're talking apples and oranges as far as trying to apply your work standards with professional athletes. Who here has been tested here for steroids?

 

As far as the legality of the situation, that should remain constant regardless whether or not he or she is a pro athlete but isn't fair to do so given how different the situation is between a pro athlete and the general public beyond the law.

 

Yes, there is a double standard there and the differences in occupation there demand that there should be.

 

Fwiw, I would not be terminated if I was driving drunk w/out any injuries to myself or others.

Edited May 1, 2007 by UK

[indifferent]

It comes as no surprise to me that La Russa is now trying to coverup Hancock's escapades and attacking the media. When it comes to discussing DUI's, he has no crediblity. He should address (not hide) the problem of athletes drinking and driving and become part of the solution, not an enabler to he problem.

 

I completely agree. LaRussa is being hypocritical in his statements in the article Chris posted the link to.

 

La Russa seemed to fire a pre-emptive shot at the media Monday. He said he told his club to be leery of the media seeking to exploit events. "I also had a very important caution: Be careful of the insincerity of some media people … trying to befriend you then trying to slam you with something that they want to turn this into, some kind of story that's not all sweet," La Russa said. "I've already seen signs of that. I'm sitting here listening. The first time I hear insincerity I'll start swinging this fungo because it doesn't have its place."

 

Pressed about his message, La Russa said, "I'm just talking about people who really don't care about us, who are out there trying to further their own agendas. That's exactly what I mean."

 

LaRussa is talking about the media "trying to further their own agendas" when he is doing exactly that. He realizes that if he condemns drinking and driving, he's screwing himself and that's the last thing he wants to do. So now he's trying to downplay a serious problem because he doesn't want to shed any more negative light on himself.

 

Soccer, I think you're reading too much into this. I think he's just trying to protect a deceased teammate and a grieving team. If you want to look for more sinister motives, perhaps he thinks when all this dirt is revealed, it will take his team even longer to recoup on the field.

[TruffleShuffle]

There's a lot more to teaching than just telling kids their multiplication tables and teaching how to diagram a sentence.

 

Teacher's are/can/should be role models to impressionable kids, and a guy or girl who drinks and drives isn't exactly fitting that bill.

 

And since a lot of arrestable offenses are published in local papers, there's a good chance the kids/parents will know about the DWI.

[FergieJ31]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

 

 

Do you believe your employer is doing the right thing?

 

Since it's a school, yeah, I'd think so. Same with a pilot or anyone involved with public transport. But under the influence and hungover are two different things, you wouldn't get terminated if you were talking with co-workers about being hungover, would you, Vance?

 

 

What does a DUI have to do with being an effective teacher?

 

The reality is that an effective teacher is also a role model. One DUI obliterates that image.

 

The point is valid when it comes to baseball also, to a lesser extent, with athletes' off-field conduct having a direct correlation with on-field performance if we're talking about a hangover. Certainly a team's image and PR come into play too (see '86 Mets).

[jersey cubs fan]

Legislating morality and policing personal lives is firing you for going to a strip club or being gay.

 

 

A highly public entertainment company that relies heavily on public good will has the right to punish their extremely high paid employees for conduct that reflects poorly on the organization.

 

Not all jobs are the same, and not all employee/employer relationships are equal.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in your personal life?

I know if I show up late, hungover, and unable to perform they will intrude in my personal life by removing me from their payroll.

 

 

Even if it was for the first time? That seems a little extreme.

 

In my job, if I show up under the influence of alcohol or drugs, I'm terminated. If I get a DWI, I'm terminated.

 

I can drink all I want on my own time. I can go to all the gentleman's clubs or carouse about on my free time at will. But if I get a DWI or ever happen to be believed to be under the influence at work, they can order me to be tested. If I refuse, I'm terminated. If I consent and I test to be under the influence, i'm terminated.

 

So, while I have a right to do what I want on my own time, there are strict parameters that surround that.

 

 

Do you believe your employer is doing the right thing?

 

Since it's a school, yeah, I'd think so. Same with a pilot or anyone involved with public transport. But under the influence and hungover are two different things, you wouldn't get terminated if you were talking with co-workers about being hungover, would you, Vance?

 

It would be harder to have me terminated for that. But if they thought it might impact my ability to teach, they could hold a tenure hearing to revoke my tenure and then remove me by non-renewal of contract.

 

My guess is that one time coming to work noticeably hung-over would not result in such a response. On the other hand, if I made a habit of it, and especially if I admitted such to a co-worker, my guess is that I would be out of a job.

[UK1679666180]

Legislating morality and policing personal lives is firing you for going to a strip club or being gay.

 

 

A highly public entertainment company that relies heavily on public good will has the right to punish their extremely high paid employees for conduct that reflects poorly on the organization.

 

Not all jobs are the same, and not all employee/employer relationships are equal.

 

That's different than termination though. They can fine or suspend someone for poor conduct, but terminating a contract is a diff. issue for a MLB team compared to a standard worker b/c of that public good translating from public image concern to a greater demand for production (wins) from external sources of income (fans).