Cardinals Pitcher Josh Hancock Dies in Car Crash

[snoodmonger]

How much should companies mandate morality and intrude in our personal life?

 

I don't think taking a firm stance against DWI is mandating morality. Morality is vague and open to interpretation depending on one's beliefs. DWI is breaking a hard and fast law that can have severe consequences, both legal and otherwise.

 

 

So while an organization can't (and shouldn't) dictate whether or not you drink, go to strip clubs, etc., it can (and maybe should) have a firm policy against alcohol related crimes.

 

 

Personally I think if you get one DWI and then you fired it's a little scary. But I'm not a huge fan of things like drunk tests for most jobs.

 

in an athlete's case, dismissal is neither necessary nor plausible. Suspension, forced rehab, etc. are the more likely avenue.

 

And the benefits go beyond the potential life-saving possibilities. In the Cardinals case, they have a reputation for being a familial, clean organization. Assuming Hancock's accident was alcohol related (still no firm evidence for that) that's 2 DWIs in a few months, with one resulting in a fatality. That can go a long way in harming that familial reputation.

 

So it's in the organization's (any organization's) best interests to prevent that behavior as much as possible.

[kujay]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

 

Why drive in that specific area to "get himself tired?" I bet he lived nowhere close to the land of Strip Joints. The cops were probably Cardinal fans and gave him a pass.

 

I live here, and I feel safe in saying that no one, and I mean no one, just "goes for a drive" in that part of town. I'm not saying anything else...just that I wouldn't buy a "i'm out for a drive" story at 5:30 in the morning there...in fact, if I were a cop I'd from then on assume the guy was full of it.

 

I'll second that. I thought I read somewhere that he was at Pop's. Are they open that late? Hell, are the strip joints even open that late? I'm too old for that madness.

[mjohnson71]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

 

Why drive in that specific area to "get himself tired?" I bet he lived nowhere close to the land of Strip Joints. The cops were probably Cardinal fans and gave him a pass.

 

I live here, and I feel safe in saying that no one, and I mean no one, just "goes for a drive" in that part of town. I'm not saying anything else...just that I wouldn't buy a "i'm out for a drive" story at 5:30 in the morning there...in fact, if I were a cop I'd from then on assume the guy was full of it.

 

I'll second that. I thought I read somewhere that he was at Pop's. Are they open that late? Hell, are the strip joints even open that late? I'm too old for that madness.

 

Pops is open 24/7: it's part of the advertising.

 

(Seriously) I don't know about the strip clubs.

[radarluv1]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

 

Why drive in that specific area to "get himself tired?" I bet he lived nowhere close to the land of Strip Joints. The cops were probably Cardinal fans and gave him a pass.

 

I live here, and I feel safe in saying that no one, and I mean no one, just "goes for a drive" in that part of town. I'm not saying anything else...just that I wouldn't buy a "i'm out for a drive" story at 5:30 in the morning there...in fact, if I were a cop I'd from then on assume the guy was full of it.

 

I'll second that. I thought I read somewhere that he was at Pop's. Are they open that late? Hell, are the strip joints even open that late? I'm too old for that madness.

 

Pops is open 24/7: it's part of the advertising.

 

(Seriously) I don't know about the strip clubs.

they cant sever liquor after 3 though, right? 24/7? thats insane

[Abe Frohman]

I think it is time for MLB to step up.

 

All the money that MLB clubs are generating warrant for each club to create 10-15 modest paying jobs in which hired people would transport MLB players, coaches, etc. out for entertainment. You can't expect a guy between the age of 21 and 40 to be responsible enough to call a cab - or....wait for it.... a limo when he has been drinking.

 

Hire a fleet of drivers to take the guys out when they want to have some fun - or better yet, these guys make more with the league minimum than many lawyers and doctors - hire your own guy.

 

You just can't expect professional athletes to control themselves. It is the best thing to do for safety and public image.

 

It sucks what happened to Josh Hancock. It doesn't make him a bad guy, just a stupid guy. His character shouldn't be assasinated, he obviously (and allegedly) made a stupid mistake.

[treebird]

You can't expect a guy between the age of 21 and 40 to be responsible enough to call a cab - or....wait for it.... a limo when he has been drinking.

 

Really? Sure is weird how we punish people for doing something there's no way we could expect them to do.

 

I think you absolutely should expect all people of all ages to have the modicum of responsibility requisite to not drive home when drunk and threaten the lives of others.

[jersey cubs fan]

You can't expect a guy between the age of 21 and 40 to be responsible enough to call a cab - or....wait for it.... a limo when he has been drinking.

 

Really? Sure is weird how we punish people for doing something there's no way we could expect them to do.

 

I think you absolutely should expect all people of all ages to have the modicum of responsibility requisite to not drive home when drunk and threaten the lives of others.

 

Yeah Abe, that's a pretty ridiculous stance. You can't expect guys between 21-40 to call a cab after drinking? I'm between 21-40 and when necessary, I've done that quite often. This is a pretty weak cop-out.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I thought that statement was dripping with sarcasm. Was I wrong?

[jersey cubs fan]

I thought that statement was dripping with sarcasm. Was I wrong?

 

It's tough to say. I think he was being sarcastic, but not entirely. His defense, just calling it a stupid mistake, makes me believe that like many, he doesn't think DUIs are all that serious. I think DUI is far beyond a stupid mistake. It's reckless, negligent, completely selfish, criminal behavior. A stupid mistake insinuates that it's not really his fault.

[mjohnson71]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

 

Why drive in that specific area to "get himself tired?" I bet he lived nowhere close to the land of Strip Joints. The cops were probably Cardinal fans and gave him a pass.

 

I live here, and I feel safe in saying that no one, and I mean no one, just "goes for a drive" in that part of town. I'm not saying anything else...just that I wouldn't buy a "i'm out for a drive" story at 5:30 in the morning there...in fact, if I were a cop I'd from then on assume the guy was full of it.

 

I'll second that. I thought I read somewhere that he was at Pop's. Are they open that late? Hell, are the strip joints even open that late? I'm too old for that madness.

 

Pops is open 24/7: it's part of the advertising.

 

(Seriously) I don't know about the strip clubs.

they cant sever liquor after 3 though, right? 24/7? thats insane

 

Nope: you can get liquor 24/7 at Pops. The only thing in Sauget are bars and chemical factories. There's like 40 people who live in the town, most are related and have the last name. I think the mayor's last name is Sauget, the owner of Pops, Oz and PTs: her maiden name is Sauget and a couple of the cops have the last name of Sauget. You get the drift.

 

Most of St. Louis' debauchery is done in Illinois.

[Mizzou]

Hancock was already plastered and on the way out to continue drinking when he killed himself. Why can't millionaire athletes who must drink until their sloppy drunk just get call a cab or get a limo?

I guess he couldn't afford it after that whopping $500 fine LaRussa laid on him for showing up late, hungover, and unable to pitch last Thursday after his first accident.

 

Keep in mind that the cops did not think he was drunk when he got into his accident on Thursday morning. Also, there are no reports he was at any strip club.

if he was at that neighborhood at 5:30 AM, then the strip club(s) was the safest and most legal place(s) he could have been.

 

Hancock says he usually goes out to drive late at night to get himself tired enough to rest. I know that sounds as implausible to you as it does to me, but that's what he said to the cops.

If you're in St. Louis and you go to the East Side, you're going there for one of two reasons. 1) because you want to gangbang, or 2) because you're going to the strip clubs.

[Mizzou]

You can't expect a guy between the age of 21 and 40 to be responsible enough to call a cab - or....wait for it.... a limo when he has been drinking.

 

Really? Sure is weird how we punish people for doing something there's no way we could expect them to do.

 

I think you absolutely should expect all people of all ages to have the modicum of responsibility requisite to not drive home when drunk and threaten the lives of others.

 

Yeah Abe, that's a pretty ridiculous stance. You can't expect guys between 21-40 to call a cab after drinking? I'm between 21-40 and when necessary, I've done that quite often. This is a pretty weak cop-out.

Yeah, that's absurd. I'm 24 and I haven't drank and drive in at least 4-5 years. I take a cab every single time I go out (unless of course we have a sober driver).

[FergieJ31]

I thought that statement was dripping with sarcasm. Was I wrong?

 

It's tough to say. I think he was being sarcastic, but not entirely. His defense, just calling it a stupid mistake, makes me believe that like many, he doesn't think DUIs are all that serious. I think DUI is far beyond a stupid mistake. It's reckless, negligent, completely selfish, criminal behavior. A stupid mistake insinuates that it's not really his fault.

 

I agree. There should be a zero-tolerance attitude toward DUIs.

 

We still don't know for sure if Hancock was driving drunk. I hate to speculate and assume the worst -- but what if he was blitzed? What if the car in front of the tow truck in the breakdown lane was a Honda Civic with a couple of kids in the backseat, and the tow truck hadn't arrived before Hancock's Explorer? We'd be talking about an entirely different tragedy -- and Hancock would be looking at jail time.

 

Jersey Cubs Fan is right: when we say "stupid mistake" it insinuates that it's not really his fault -- and that's wrong.

[Abe Frohman]

Guys - I was ABSOLUTELY being sarcastic about that. I was also being serious about MLB getting these guys chaperons.

 

Driving after drinking is in excusable. Can you imagine how we would be viewing this if Hancock were still alive, but another person was killed? Driving under the influence is an inexcusable action.

 

I still hate that this happened to Josh Hancock.

[snoodmonger]

today's dispatch

 

Some snippets:

 

There's a lot of guys who like to have a cocktail now and then, and maybe some more than others," Jocketty said. "But unless you go out and socialize with the guys, which I don't, how are you going to know? … It's not like we police these guys away from the ballpark," Jocketty said. "It's up to them to police themselves."

 

 

"I've now talked to two guys who said they talked to him about (his drinking) from time to time, but I don't know how much they knew," Jocketty said. " … These guys are grown men. They have to know how to conduct themselves."

 

"I don't know what more we could have done at the time of Tony's situation. It is what it is. He got put in jail for the night for it and charged," Jocketty said. "It's not like he's an alcoholic and needs to go in rehab. He worked his tail off. He had a long day after a night game. If anything, he shouldn't have been out there that late. But he was seeing a bunch of different people before they left town."

 

Sources close to the crash investigation told the Post-Dispatch on Tuesday that a small amount of marijuana, in a small tin, was recovered from Hancock's demolished vehicle. A Cardinals source said the club was made aware of the finding Monday night.

 

 

Hancock gave differing accounts for his tardiness Thursday, Jocketty said. He told some club members he overslept and others that he had forgotten the game's early start time. La Russa fined Hancock for being late but made him available for the game, although he didn't play. Jocketty said he spoke with Hancock after he arrived at Busch Stadium shortly before game time and did not believe him to be hung over. Jocketty described Hancock as "frantic because he was late" but said he did not press him about his whereabouts.

 

 

It's an interesting article in which Jocketty appears to be in damage control mode. And I still don't like the lax attitude Jocketty is displaying RE: Tony's indiscretions.

 

It's also pretty clear he was lying when he told people he'd forgotten the early start time of the game he was late to, considering he told the cops:

 

he hated following a Cardinals night game with a daytime one, and that he routinely drove around to make himself tired enough to rest, the chief said.

 

"He said how he hated -- he used that word -- to play day games after a night game, that he had trouble sleeping and was out driving around," Delaney said.

[Backtobanks]

Guys - I was ABSOLUTELY being sarcastic about that. I was also being serious about MLB getting these guys chaperons.

 

Driving after drinking is in excusable. Can you imagine how we would be viewing this if Hancock were still alive, but another person was killed? Driving under the influence is an inexcusable action.

 

I still hate that this happened to Josh Hancock.

 

Give me a break. MLB ought to hire chaperons for these players. How about some adult responsibility? Can you imagine the tabloid stories and the lawsuits involved when all of these "adult" players (MLB, NFL, & NBA) have "babysitters" following them around. Let's not forget the motion picture studios need to hire "babysitters" for their actors. Let's be honest, probably 80% of the people leaving a bar at 1 or 2 in the morning are driving home drunk. Drunk driving is an epidemic in this country and I surprised more people aren't killed in drunk driving accidents. Let's not forget that "macho" athletes are convinced they can handle themselves in any situation. I feel sorry for Josh Hancock, but I feel sorrier for the innocent people that end up getting killed by drunk drivers.

[Soul]

Haha, come on Abe. Chaperons?

[Keener98]

today's dispatch

 

Some snippets:

 

There's a lot of guys who like to have a cocktail now and then, and maybe some more than others," Jocketty said. "But unless you go out and socialize with the guys, which I don't, how are you going to know? … It's not like we police these guys away from the ballpark," Jocketty said. "It's up to them to police themselves."

 

 

"I've now talked to two guys who said they talked to him about (his drinking) from time to time, but I don't know how much they knew," Jocketty said. " … These guys are grown men. They have to know how to conduct themselves."

 

"I don't know what more we could have done at the time of Tony's situation. It is what it is. He got put in jail for the night for it and charged," Jocketty said. "It's not like he's an alcoholic and needs to go in rehab. He worked his tail off. He had a long day after a night game. If anything, he shouldn't have been out there that late. But he was seeing a bunch of different people before they left town."

 

Sources close to the crash investigation told the Post-Dispatch on Tuesday that a small amount of marijuana, in a small tin, was recovered from Hancock's demolished vehicle. A Cardinals source said the club was made aware of the finding Monday night.

 

 

Hancock gave differing accounts for his tardiness Thursday, Jocketty said. He told some club members he overslept and others that he had forgotten the game's early start time. La Russa fined Hancock for being late but made him available for the game, although he didn't play. Jocketty said he spoke with Hancock after he arrived at Busch Stadium shortly before game time and did not believe him to be hung over. Jocketty described Hancock as "frantic because he was late" but said he did not press him about his whereabouts.

 

 

It's an interesting article in which Jocketty appears to be in damage control mode. And I still don't like the lax attitude Jocketty is displaying RE: Tony's indiscretions.

 

It's also pretty clear he was lying when he told people he'd forgotten the early start time of the game he was late to, considering he told the cops:

 

he hated following a Cardinals night game with a daytime one, and that he routinely drove around to make himself tired enough to rest, the chief said.

 

"He said how he hated -- he used that word -- to play day games after a night game, that he had trouble sleeping and was out driving around," Delaney said.

 

And so the plot thickens. This could get really ugly for the Cardinals before all is said and done.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

today's dispatch

 

I don't think Walt should talk to the press about non-baseball matters. "It's not like he's an alcoholic and needs to go in rehab"? Yeesh.

[jersey cubs fan]

And so the plot thickens. This could get really ugly for the Cardinals before all is said and done.

 

Hopefully the message gets across to all teams though. Remember, the Cubs had their own DUI issue last year with Speier. I think he took a leave of abscence following his arrest, so it's a little unclear how exactly the Cubs handled the situation. Did they brush it under the rug by pushing a disposable coach aside. How would they handle that with a manager, or player? This reflects very poorly on the Cards, especially with the LaRussa situation coming first. But it's definitely an issue for every team.

[Keener98]

And so the plot thickens. This could get really ugly for the Cardinals before all is said and done.

 

Hopefully the message gets across to all teams though. Remember, the Cubs had their own DUI issue last year with Speier. I think he took a leave of abscence following his arrest, so it's a little unclear how exactly the Cubs handled the situation. Did they brush it under the rug by pushing a disposable coach aside. How would they handle that with a manager, or player? This reflects very poorly on the Cards, especially with the LaRussa situation coming first. But it's definitely an issue for every team.

 

I agree. Regarding the Speir DUI though, didnt the Cubs make him take a leave of absense?

[Abe Frohman]

Haha, come on Abe. Chaperons?

 

It's all part of my schtick.

 

Grown men should be responsible.

[Laura]

The Cubs placed Speier on personal leave. The rumors at the time were that the Cubs had him go to some sort of alcohol counseling as a condition of retaining his job, but I can't find any confirmation of that, so if that was the case, it seems that the Cubs kept it private vs making a public statement.

 

Speier also played up his Cubs connection at the time of the arrest in hopes of being let off, which may have caused the organization to respond more strongly than they may have otherwise (impossible to know).

[Keener98]

The Cubs placed Speier on personal leave. The rumors at the time were that the Cubs had him go to some sort of alcohol counseling as a condition of retaining his job, but I can't find any confirmation of that, so if that was the case, it seems that the Cubs kept it private vs making a public statement.

 

Speier also played up his Cubs connection at the time of the arrest in hopes of being let off, which may have caused the organization to respond more strongly than they may have otherwise (impossible to know).

 

 

Ok so it does appear anyway that the Cubs took more action against Speier than the Cards did against Larussa. I know they were in different positions but I would think with Larussa being in a higher profile position that the Cards should have at least recommended some kind of counseling. What that has to do with this situation Im not really sure, but who know if the Cards would have taken on a harder stance with Larussal, maybe this could have been prevented, but thats all speculation.

[ryno-mvp23]

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