Cubs Sign Marquis to 3/21

[goonys evil twin]

On the bright side, since we didn't get a major FA pitcher, maybe Z will get locked up to a long term deal before the season starts.

 

another tangential effect of this and the Lilly deal is it allows the Cubs to trade away some minor league pitching without worrying about the depth chart. A trade or two before April is inevitable.

 

Good point. Nice issue spotting counselor.

 

I've been wondering if Hendry is going to surprise everybody with a trade of Rich Hill at his high point. You might be able to get a serious offensive upgrade if you're willing to part with him in a package. This is when I'd try and overwhelm Florida with all the prospects they want for Cabrera, or you offer to restock the Yankees farm team with just about anybody for ARod. The Cubs aren't going to win many 2-1 games with this staff, they need to rack up the runs.

 

The Cubs are going to have to play a rope a dope game this season, lulling the opponent to sleep with the incredibly boring pitching staff. 3/20 doesn't reak of terrible. Marquis does have a chance to have a good year, and if he does, and some internal options figure things out, he'd make great trade bait next season. Well, here's to Larry working some magic on the guy and getting something out of Marquis.

[XZero771679666304]

Seriously guys, I'm not so sure this is something to throw a hissy fit about. It seems like we have unrealistic expectations sometimes as Cubs fans. This is a #4 or #5. They can't all be aces. He's just a John Thomson or a Brett Tomko type.

 

My only concern is whether one of our younger guys couldn't have done the same thing, for about 1/10th the cost.

 

I think most of us are wondering why sign a #4 or #5 type when we needed a #2 type.

 

Maybe because there don't seem to be any #2's available? The only potential #2's that were on the market were Schmidt (who seemed set on the WC) and Pettitte, who wasn't going anywhere but NY or Houston. Jennings' availability has been in question, as well as Westbrook's. Zito would be an overpaid disaster in the NL central. Penny may or may not be available.

 

I wouldn't have signed Marquis regardless, but I am just not seeing where these #2's that everybody want are.

[dwalling]

I think most of us are wondering why sign a #4 or #5 type when we needed a #2 type.

 

They are still banking on Prior being that #2, even though they lead us to believe they considered him a #5 or #6 going into the Winter. All Marquis has to do along with Lily is get us 5 or 6 strong innings, we have a strong enough pen to finish it out.

[Flames24Rulz]

I knew I threw up for a reason earlier today.

 

Ugh.

You drank too many rum and cokes last night too?

 

More than enough. Definitely feeling the after-effects of it.

[JeffH]

I've been wondering if Hendry is going to surprise everybody with a trade of Rich Hill at his high point.

 

I think that's highly unlikely. What is more likely, IMO, is a trade for yet another "established" pitcher.

 

After last season, I don't think they will be willing to go into the season with the Miller/Prior/kids pool penciled in for one of the rotation spots.

[erik316wttn]

This is.....

 

it's......

 

I have no words. I'm speechless.

 

That money could have easily gone toward something else. Anything else.

 

Cripes, they're paying Marquis $7 million a year to suck? Hell, I'll do it for 1/10th that.

 

Note to Jim: Spending money alone won't improve this team. It's spending it WISELY. You obviously haven't figured that out yet.

Edited December 9, 2006 by erik316wttn

[TruffleShuffle]

I'm in the wrong line of work. Sure wish I could get $6M per year to suck at my job.

[XZero771679666304]

Free agent Jason Marquis, who finished last season with a 6.02 ERA, will sign a three-year deal with the Cubs.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch says it's worth $28 million, but the Chicago Tribune is going with a more reasonable $20 million. Despite his ugly year, Marquis will probably be a decent enough innings-eater over the life of the contract. Fourth starters are apparently worth $7 million per year in this market. Dec. 9 - 11:33 am et

[jjgman21]

He was the scheduled starter each day & in the game vs. the Sox, he gave 9ER thru the 1st 2. He still would've likely given up 5-6 runs and not have been pulled with a rested pen.

 

So, instead of assuming maybe 5-6 runs thru 1 2/3 rather than 13 thru 5, it's better to assume that it never happened?

 

Same thing with the Braves game, that was spread out I don't think he allowed more than 3 runs in any inning and the Braves scored in almost every inning he pitched.

 

He still would've pitched and likely given up the 4-6 runs thru 2-3IP and been pulled rather than going 5 and giving up 12.

 

It makes no sense.

No, I definitely agree that that's the best way to look at it. I just didn't feel like looking to see when exactly he should have been pulled. What I was basically trying to say was that Marquis had (at least) two outtings last year where he would've been pulled in normal circumstances, but wasn't. Therefore he wasn't as bad as he ERA makes him out to be.

 

in the game against ATL, he should have been pulled after the fourth. he'd just made the last out of the third inning, so pulling him then would not have even necessitated the need for a pinch hitter.

so probably take 4 runs and 2 innings off his totals.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=260718124&page=plays

 

in the game against the White Sox, he should have been pulled after the second I feel. after the Thome homer cleared the bases, give him a chance to get you one more inning, so take 3 innings and four runs off the totals.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=260621104&page=plays

[cubscott34]

I think most of us are wondering why sign a #4 or #5 type when we needed a #2 type.

 

They are still banking on Prior being that #2, even though they lead us to believe they considered him a #5 or #6 going into the Winter. All Marquis has to do along with Lily is get us 5 or 6 strong innings, we have a strong enough pen to finish it out.

 

Money is probably about right in this market but no way should we have gone 3 years. 2 tops... perferably with the second being an option.

 

However, I think that the Cubs look at it this way... they have Z, Hill, and Lilly and then a competition between Miller, Prior, Marquis, and whatever youngsters are looking good in spring for the final two spots. I also believe that, while they are not counting on Prior, hence 5 other starters, they do beleive that if he comes back healthy he will be no worse than a #2 type starter.

[YearofDaCubs]

I don't like this move, period. 3 year guaranteed contract for Marquis? Jeez I would have liked to have seen somebody else instead. Look at me with a straight face and honestly tell me Rothschild is going to straighten this guy out? I have zero confidence in Rothschild to improve ANY pitcher these days. Here's hoping he gets straightened out but I'm not going to hold my breath that's for sure.

[CubinNY]

The combination of Marquis stubbornous and Lou's tempor should make for some high entertainment next year. I cannot see this ending well.

 

Everything, and I mean everything, is going to have to break right for the Cubs to have a chance next year.

Edited December 9, 2006 by CubinNY

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Marquis has to be receptive towards Rothschild, it could potentially be the perfect fit for Marquis if he doesn't get his own way.

 

Can't believe I have to mention that after he's worked with Mazzone and Duncan.

 

But... the strength of Marquis is his slider and 2 seam FB. Those two pitches are Rothschild's signature pitches as a PC as far as getting the most out of a guy with those strengths. Right now, Marquis wants to throw his curve too much as well as his 4 seamer.

 

I've questioned Marquis' approach to the game, whether it has been his relationships with his PCs as well as his complaining about not being in the rotation on '04 during the playoffs. He has more talent than what he has produced.

 

He has to become a Matt Clement type (movement FB and slider 95% of all pitches) to be somewhat effective again. Hitters have hit .300 off of his curve, if you can't prevent hitters from hitting .300 on a breaking pitch, time to scrap it.

 

That 3/28 seems way too high, even in the current market.

 

But what is going to make him change if he wasn't receptive towards some of the best pitching coaches in the bigs? Greg Maddux and Mark DeRosa's word are nice and all, but I'm not sure I have faith in Marquis listening and improving much.

 

Three years? That sucks.

[erik316wttn]

3 years? :shock:

 

I don't understand this at all. Are we done getting pitchers now then? If we are, then I'm definitely disappointed in what Hendry has done. We have Z, the potential in Hill, and then a bunch of 5th starters.

 

What healthy pitcher will sign for less than 3 years these days?

 

I hope we aren't done and that a trade for a better #2 option is still availabe (ie Brad Penny) but my fear is that it's not. And Lilly, Marquis and Cotts aren't exactly what I had in mind for strengthening our pitching staff. Sori OTOH I'm counting down the days before we can see him in Cubs pinstripes.

 

This is what pisses me off about this signing. We could have passed on Marquis and swung a trade for Penny, using that money to get him to rework his contract or even give it to the Dodgers. Instead, we sign a guy who completely sucks for more money than I'll ever make in 10 lifetimes.

Edited December 9, 2006 by erik316wttn

[UMFan83]

I knew I threw up for a reason earlier today.

 

Ugh.

You drank too many rum and cokes last night too?

 

More than enough. Definitely feeling the after-effects of it.

 

Join the crowd. Holiday parties are fun

[BigbadB]

Looking at the bright side, Izturis will be able to bat 9th when Zambrano and Marquis are pitching.

[Jon]

This is a 3 year, $20 million minor league contract with Marquis having to fight for a spot on the 25-man roster, right?

:roll: :?:

Hendry is really sacrificing performance for stability here. This makes two multi-year deals for back of the rotation starters while the Cubs are most likely going to have several higher ceiling options for those spots once the Cactus League starts. And Lilly and Marquis are less likely to be moved if there's excess pitching than younger guys who have better chances of putting up better years for far less money.

 

And since I doubt Hendry really knows Hill's true (market) value, I'm not exactly holding out my hopes that if Rich were traded, that he'd bring back the most in return.

[erik316wttn]

The combination of Marquis stubbornous and Lous tempor should make for some high entertainment next year. I cannot see this ending well.

 

Everything, and I mean everything, is going to have to break right for the Cubs to have a chance next year.

 

This is what I was saying the other day about this team having far too many "ifs" for them to have any sort of a chance next year.

[XZero771679666304]

The combination of Marquis stubbornous and Lous tempor should make for some high entertainment next year. I cannot see this ending well.

 

Everything, and I mean everything, is going to have to break right for the Cubs to have a chance next year.

 

In this division, with the Astros regressing and the Cards not improving? No, the Cubs have as good a shot as anyone. In any other division you're right.

[UK1679666180]

Marquis has to be receptive towards Rothschild, it could potentially be the perfect fit for Marquis if he doesn't get his own way.

 

Can't believe I have to mention that after he's worked with Mazzone and Duncan.

 

But... the strength of Marquis is his slider and 2 seam FB. Those two pitches are Rothschild's signature pitches as a PC as far as getting the most out of a guy with those strengths. Right now, Marquis wants to throw his curve too much as well as his 4 seamer.

 

I've questioned Marquis' approach to the game, whether it has been his relationships with his PCs as well as his complaining about not being in the rotation on '04 during the playoffs. He has more talent than what he has produced.

 

He has to become a Matt Clement type (movement FB and slider 95% of all pitches) to be somewhat effective again. Hitters have hit .300 off of his curve, if you can't prevent hitters from hitting .300 on a breaking pitch, time to scrap it.

 

That 3/28 seems way too high, even in the current market.

 

But what is going to make him change if he wasn't receptive towards some of the best pitching coaches in the bigs? Greg Maddux and Mark DeRosa's word are nice and all, but I'm not sure I have faith in Marquis listening and improving much.

 

Three years? That sucks.

 

Hopefully getting his rear end handed to him last year made him realize he doesn't know more about pitching than Mazzone and Duncan.

[CubColtPacer]

The combination of Marquis stubbornous and Lous tempor should make for some high entertainment next year. I cannot see this ending well.

 

Everything, and I mean everything, is going to have to break right for the Cubs to have a chance next year.

 

In this division, with the Astros regressing and the Cards not improving? No, the Cubs have as good a shot as anyone. In any other division you're right.

 

I would agree. The Cubs may have plenty of question marks, but I can't see anyone in the division that I can point to as better than this team right now either.

[YearofDaCubs]

3 years? :shock:

 

I don't understand this at all. Are we done getting pitchers now then? If we are, then I'm definitely disappointed in what Hendry has done. We have Z, the potential in Hill, and then a bunch of 5th starters.

 

What healthy pitcher will sign for less than 3 years these days?

 

I hope we aren't done and that a trade for a better #2 option is still availabe (ie Brad Penny) but my fear is that it's not. And Lilly, Marquis and Cotts aren't exactly what I had in mind for strengthening our pitching staff. Sori OTOH I'm counting down the days before we can see him in Cubs pinstripes.

 

This is what pisses me off about this signing. We could have passed on Marquis and swung a trade for Penny, using that money to get him to rework his contract or even give it to the Dodgers. Instead, we sign a guy who completely sucks for more money than I'll ever make in 10 lifetimes.

I don't like Brad Penny either so I'm glad we didn't try and acquire him. Actually, I would prefer for us to make a trade for one of the Dodgers OF prospects instead.

Edited December 9, 2006 by YearofDaCubs

[Ken in DC]

I believe that the signing or non-signing of Cliff Floyd will create a number of moves. These could be centered around trading Jones to the Dodgers for good prospects and then turn around and try to get one of the Devil Ray's outfielders with a pitcher of two from the Cubs. I have it down that Guzman has to remain in the majors with the Cubs as he is out of options. I am not sure about the options left on Ryu.

 

But we have a whole host of pitchers who are on the heals of the Marshalls, Mateos, and Marmols. I think trading Marshall would be a hugh mistake, but if and its a big if Prior and or Miller is healthy then Marshall goes to AAA. Marmol looks like a relief pitcher in the making and Mateo has to learn another pitch or its off to the pen for him. Veal himself could just be a year away

 

 

I would also like to see Izturis traded and then one has Coats, Theriot and Cedeno to play short (I think Theriot is the answer).

[beer_man]

he sucks...good luck. It wasn't just his era, he led the league in long balls for a reason and with all the pitching questions the Cards had going into the post season everyone knew the Cards did not trust him to pitch...he is a headcase that arguably the 2 best pitching coaches in the game had to give up on. He will show some flashes of what could be, and you think man this guy can pitch and then bam...it is like he forgets what he is doing out there...

 

you know, all I heard (not necessarily from you of course) when the Braves traded him to the Cards was what a coup it was to get all this great young pitching talent for that bum JD Drew. I also heard so much 'Duncan was able to straighten him out' talk for his first two years as a Card when Cubs fans all predicted his eminant decline.

 

now Cox and Duncan couldn't straighten him out? will someone provide me with a link to anybody ever saying that Cox and/or Duncan couldn't straighten him out? or is this all just a conclusion reached without any exploration of cause and effect?

 

well the Cards do still have Wainwright from that trade(that will probably end up being the best coup) Marquis did decent the first couple of years and he was young and CHEAP. There is nothing wrong with him mechanically he just shakes off pitches and does not trust his sinker enough...his worst trait last year was that he did not keep the Cards in the game...he gave up a lot of runs early and just looks defeated. Like I said you will see flashes of hope but no consistency in his quality of starts...

[jjgman21]

Marquis has to be receptive towards Rothschild, it could potentially be the perfect fit for Marquis if he doesn't get his own way.

 

Can't believe I have to mention that after he's worked with Mazzone and Duncan.

 

But... the strength of Marquis is his slider and 2 seam FB. Those two pitches are Rothschild's signature pitches as a PC as far as getting the most out of a guy with those strengths. Right now, Marquis wants to throw his curve too much as well as his 4 seamer.

 

I've questioned Marquis' approach to the game, whether it has been his relationships with his PCs as well as his complaining about not being in the rotation on '04 during the playoffs. He has more talent than what he has produced.

 

He has to become a Matt Clement type (movement FB and slider 95% of all pitches) to be somewhat effective again. Hitters have hit .300 off of his curve, if you can't prevent hitters from hitting .300 on a breaking pitch, time to scrap it.

 

That 3/28 seems way too high, even in the current market.

 

But what is going to make him change if he wasn't receptive towards some of the best pitching coaches in the bigs? Greg Maddux and Mark DeRosa's word are nice and all, but I'm not sure I have faith in Marquis listening and improving much.

 

Three years? That sucks.

 

again, which is it? was he listening to Duncan in 04-05, or was that strictly his stubborn side putting up solid #3 numbers? and back in 01, was he listening to Cox, or was that his stubborn side?

 

where does this 'stubborn' / 'the best pitching coaches couldn't straighten him out' stuff come from other than looking at a situation and jumping to conclusions about cause and effect?