The end of the whole world? (Murton soon to be in AAA)

[Fro]

Yeah, we can't afford to have a LF with that poor of SLG when we have a 100 million dollar payroll.

[soccer10k]

I hope this doesn't happen but with the return of Derrek Lee, I think it will. It might end up being better for Murton anyway.

[treebird]

remember in january when everyone was like "murton will definitely have an 850 ops this year, he's the next paul oneill I GUARANTEE IT"

 

: (

[oldstyle81]

you are crying about a guy who has a grand total of

 

drum role please

 

5 RBIS since May 1

 

hell Nevin has 7 in 10 games

 

Be happy knowing Lee might be back, he is the one you should be crying about maybe missing.

[CubinNY]

you are crying about a guy who has a grand total of

 

drum role please

 

5 RBIS since May 1

 

hell Nevin has 7 in 10 games

 

Be happy knowing Lee might be back, he is the one you should be crying about maybe missing.

 

For sure Murton hasn't been playing well against righties. But it is hard to get RBI with the OBP the Cubs have.

 

Nevertheless, he's playing much better then the guy next to him and yet he's still at the top of the order grounding out to someone in the infield every AB.

[oldstyle81]

I know C Lee isnt mister consistent, but I rather have someone who can hit over 30 HR's and 100 RBI's in the lineup ... What has a better chance of gettin u to the playoffs..A heart of the order of DLee,CLee,and Ramierz, or those two and murton, if you think the second ur nuts...Im not even gonna go into freddie bynum,thats just joke... Money dosent matter, its not our money so why should we care, We just want high caliber players on the team that can make us a winning team and take us to the world series...The last guy we had in left that was a beast was Moises Alou, and now are times i miss him the most..Dont get me wrong, I Like Matt murton alot, but hes just not the answer for us... only 4 HR's and 21 RBI's.. comeon..sure hes cheap...but what do we care about how cheap a player is if hes not going to put up numbers...its 98 years..this is no time to worry about building up Young players, low salarys and not spending alot of money.. I dont know about you guys im not waiting till 2024 for prospects and guys like matt murton to win me a world series...I want it now... So lets sign C Lee and Barry Zito and lets go from there

 

No offense, but I am NOT enamored with Carlos Lee. I mean if we go after Carlos, that would mean the Cubs are subscribing to the "mashers" theory again, and I don't want an offense to be built around the three run homerun. I want an offense, that can do it all. Hit for average/power, can run, can play both small and long ball. I haven't given up on Murton, and I believe he will still be a very good player.

 

 

So you would rather the cubs score no runs?

 

everyone was like the white sox played small ball, thats how they won. they however still had 200 homeruns.

[Mizzou]

Murton this month:

 

207/258/224/482

 

Wow.

 

Maybe sending him down isn't a bad idea afterall. At least he'd get to work with a competent hitting coach.

[soccer10k]

I know C Lee isnt mister consistent, but I rather have someone who can hit over 30 HR's and 100 RBI's in the lineup ... What has a better chance of gettin u to the playoffs..A heart of the order of DLee,CLee,and Ramierz, or those two and murton, if you think the second ur nuts...Im not even gonna go into freddie bynum,thats just joke... Money dosent matter, its not our money so why should we care, We just want high caliber players on the team that can make us a winning team and take us to the world series...The last guy we had in left that was a beast was Moises Alou, and now are times i miss him the most..Dont get me wrong, I Like Matt murton alot, but hes just not the answer for us... only 4 HR's and 21 RBI's.. comeon..sure hes cheap...but what do we care about how cheap a player is if hes not going to put up numbers...its 98 years..this is no time to worry about building up Young players, low salarys and not spending alot of money.. I dont know about you guys im not waiting till 2024 for prospects and guys like matt murton to win me a world series...I want it now... So lets sign C Lee and Barry Zito and lets go from there

 

No offense, but I am NOT enamored with Carlos Lee. I mean if we go after Carlos, that would mean the Cubs are subscribing to the "mashers" theory again, and I don't want an offense to be built around the three run homerun. I want an offense, that can do it all. Hit for average/power, can run, can play both small and long ball. I haven't given up on Murton, and I believe he will still be a very good player.

 

Didn't you learn from previous years that hitting homeruns wasn't the problem, it was the getting on base part of it.

[Warpticon]

Man, the bad arguments are overwhelming in this thread. I don't even know where to start. :(

[USSoccer]

There's no justification in sending Murton down. Let me run through these arguments and disprove them:

 

-He has a poor SLG% and we need a guy like Carlos Lee.

 

I agree, we need a better SLG% out of LF, but we're not sending him down and bringing up Lee, nor are we trading for him, so this argument is crap. If you want to sign Lee this winter, ok, but demoting Murton isn't a precondition of that.

 

-He needs to work on hitting with Von Joshua

 

Yeah, Joshua is a better coach than the ML guys, but why, then would you keep the ML guys? Wouldn't every hitter benefit from a better hitting coach? Why just send Matt down? Wh not call Joshua up, so to speak?

 

-He's struggled in June and has 5 RBI since May 1st.

 

Yes, he has. So have half the team. Hit run production suffers because our offense sucks as a whole. Aramis has around 40 RBI, which for him is really, really low. Our whole offense is bad; why punish one kid for it?

 

-He's not the answer in LF.

 

On a competently constructed team, he can be an asset. You can allow him to grow into his role. However, this is the Cubs, and they stupidly constructed a team where Murton was counted on to be a run producer right away. Them when he hits a skid thanks to bad coaching and pressure from a stupid manager to be more aggressive, you send him down?

 

Given that we're nowhere close to contending, I see no point in demoting him to learn facing AAA pitching. The best thing the Cubs could do is recognize that their hitting coaches are terrible, fire them, promote Joshua, and allow Murton to grow as a player and play through his struggles. Platooning him with Bynum does nothing ni the short term and damages our options in the long term.

[Illini Iceman]

I think the move will be to DFA Womack.

 

He has gotten very little playing time lately and when he has played his results have regressed quite a bit from the hot start he had.

 

Also, he is a LH second baseman and with Lee back they already have Walker for that role since they won't need him to play 1B any more. He could also play some OF but he brings almost exactly the same things to the table as Bynum so again he would be redundant.

 

Murton has started each of the last three games and I would think that if they were planning to send him down they would have started putting other guys out there as a signal that he was on the way out.

 

Personally, I still have higher hopes for Murton than for Cedeno, despite the fact that Cedeno seems to have adjusted more quickly to the big league competition. Murton has a very good eye and does a nice job of hitting to the opposite field when he is pitched away. I think he can make some adjustments and be a Mark Grace type of hitter. As long as the Cubs can get power out of some other positions (1B, 3B, RF, C, maybe even CF with Pie) he would be a nice #3 or #6 hitter even if he only is good for about 15-20 HR's per year.

[PrimeTime]

Murton OBP. 336 SLG .365 Jones. OBP .327 SLG .513 yet everyone is so critical of Jones no matter what he does... but Murton can up going 0-4 every day and have only like 4 RBI's since May 1st and I never hear anyone ever criticize or boo him..If you guys just want another .500 season with a guy liek murton..thats fine.. But id rather have a power hitter like C Lee or Soriano out in left... Just think DLee,CLee,Thome...dosent impress you? Just look across town at the sox with Thome,Konerko, and Dye.. Probably one of the most lethal trio in all of baseball...Thats how theyre averaging like 5 or 6 runs a game...Especially at a hitters park like Wrigley, you want a lineup that can score some runs..and C Lee has always dominated whenever he comes to Wrigley..Sure hes not consistent...Just look at the stats compared to murton.. Wed win alot mroe games and atleats have hopr for this team with another guy who can hit 30+HR's and 100+ RBI's jsut remember where sammy and moises got us in 2003 with all those homers and Rbi's.. Not to mention a big part of that was Kenny lofton gettig on base almost every at bat, and Mark Gruzielanek, a great number two hitter always gettin on too for our power hitters... The team lacks power..and thats what we need in the offseason

[Pinktermite]

I too think that Womack will be sent down. Murton dominates the lefties too much to be sent down, plus he does get on base. We know that Neifi won't go, he has too much contract left, plus he is a good defender despite his lousy bat and OBP.

 

I really don't care what they do, the team is done for the year anyway, so whatever they do to make room for DLee won't make a diff at this point in the year.

[Fro]

The reason why we're tough on Murton is LF is the easiest and most logical position for us to upgrade the offense in the offseason (besides the bench).

 

Pie likely replaces Pierre, Cedeno is solid at SS. Jacque's production for the price is actually excellent if you platoon him with someone who hits lefties (i.e. Murton, Craig Wilson).

[cubfan1955]

They should send Murton, Cedeno, Lee, Ramirez, Walker, Barrett, Prior, Z, Marshall, Marmol, Dempster, Eyre, Howry, Guzman, and Maddux to Iowa and let Dusty have free reign with his boys. Getting players away from the 3 amigos Baker, Clines, and Sarge can only be considered good.

[BigbadB]

yet everyone is so critical of Jones no matter what he does... but Murton can up going 0-4 every day and have only like 4 RBI's since May 1st and I never hear anyone ever criticize or boo him

 

This is where you are way off base. No one here is critical of Jones OR Murton. They are critical of the guys who assembled the team with Jones and Murton as your corner outfield.

 

Jones would be an acceptable LF if you had + production from a good RF. He'd probably be an outstanding CF given his production.

 

If Jacque Jones and Matt Murton were the two halves of a platoon compliment in LF with a really good RF, you probably wouldn't be hearing much criticism about either player.

 

Hendry was the one who went with Cedeno and Murton as his everyday starters for the 2006 season. Thinking he could get enough offense out of these two rookies and an average player like Jones was a huge error in judgment. Not only did he go with these guys as his everyday starters, he had no quality back up players if they ended up struggling worse than they are now.

 

The Dodgers played it much better. There was a lot of criticism of how poorly the Dodgers offseason went, but you absolutely cannot deny now that they went into this last offseason with a much better approach than the Cubs did. The Dodgers have so much depth, they don't know what to do with it all. They slowly promoted the kids one by one, and they have solid veterans as back ups if for some reason the kids struggle.

 

Hendry placed all his hopes on a couple of kids to be as good as advertised, and he had no back up plan in the event they struggled. The Jones contract is a joke. I don't dislike the guy. I just don't think he's worth a 3 year deal. His biggest weakness offensively happens to match the biggest weakness that continually goes ignored in this organization. If you're going to spend 3 years and 15m on a guy, make sure he is good at getting on base.

 

Austin Kearns was an available bat this past offseason. He makes less than 2m a year right now, and he matches Jones in most offensive stats but is much better at drawing walks. He's just an example of how poor of a decision it was to spend 3 years and ridiculous money on a guy who has the same disease as most of the other players on the team, poor OBP.

 

I love the kids, but before any offseason moves were made, my suggestioin was find a lefty compliment for Murton and get a stud RF. Since Cedeno didn't really have any real competition and would almost be guaranteed to play everyday, it made good sense to improve the offense in the outfield.

 

I also suggested bringing back Nomar. Nomar provided protection and depth. If you couldn't get a stud RF, you could stick Nomar out there. If you did get a stud RF, you could put Nomar at SS and use Cedeno as a defensive replacement/spot starter. When Lee got hurt, you could slide Nomar over to 1st and put Cedeno at SS. There would still be a loss of offensive production downgrading from Lee and Nomar to Nomar and Cedeno, but if you had GOOD outfielders, the offensive drop off wouldn't have been that signficant.

 

My criticism isn't with Jones, himself. It's with the guy who signed him to be the stud offensive player the Cubs needed to go out and get. We got the short end of the straw. Plain and simple. Almost any criticism's of this team revert back to management, and not the player.

 

This team was constructed so poorly, it's hard to find a place to begin. Nobody hates Neifi, Rusch, Pierre, Bynum, Mabry, Womack and Blanco. By themselves, having any one of them on the team as the 25th guy wouldn't draw much ire. Collectively, it's one of the worst benches in the history of sports. It becomes even worse if 1 or more of them actually start a game. That is Hendry's fault. That's what you get when you don't know what you are doing.

 

Am I happy that a guy who doesn't know what he is doing just received a 2 year extension? Absolutely not. That's why most of my posts point to Hendry, MacPhail, Baker and his coaching staff as the first moves that need to be made. These are the guys who will be making the decisions this next offseason on who to add to this team. For that, we should all be very scared.

[jaydee]

Hmm...where to start.

 

Why send Murton down? if the hitting coach at AAA is better than the one in the MLB, then fire the MLB one. If the organization doesn't do this, then that just shows how poorly run the cubs are right now.

 

I don't see what Carlos Lee and Soriano have to do with this. Neither are available right now.

 

There is no reason to not let Murton develop and see if he can become a productive LFer with a very good OBP and decent power.

[jaydee]

you are crying about a guy who has a grand total of

 

drum role please

 

5 RBIS since May 1

 

hell Nevin has 7 in 10 games

 

Be happy knowing Lee might be back, he is the one you should be crying about maybe missing.

 

What do you expect when he has this coaching staff. Their advice has never made a young player that has been brought up better so far. It always has the same effect - make them much, much worse.

[Jon]

Nevin has no value to this team next season.

 

Bynum has no value to this team any season.

 

Murton needs to be playing in the majors. He should be starting in left this season and then platooning with Jones next season on the rare chance that Hendry can actually acquire a decent corner outfielder for LF.

 

Oh, and does Dusty still get credit for breaking in Murton (otherwise known as not letting Murton play against righties for much of his time up in the majors) last year?

[Guest]

Given the state of the Cubs and the possible alternatives to Murton in LF I absolutely agree that demoting him is a boneheaded more. That being said, I wouldn't see it as the end of the world, either. (Just further proof of how woefully mismanaged this organization is.) Murton was more or less called up to the majors straight from AA, so I'm not positive he wouldn't benefit from working at a lower level with Joshua. I'd also much rather he play every day in Iowa than rot on the bench watching Bynum/Mabry get 80% of the LF starts in a straight platoon.

[SouthSideRyan]

remember in january when everyone was like "murton will definitely have an 850 ops this year, he's the next paul oneill I GUARANTEE IT"

 

: (

 

No.

[RynoRules]

remember in january when everyone was like "murton will definitely have an 850 ops this year, he's the next paul oneill I GUARANTEE IT"

 

: (

 

No.

 

I don't recall anyone guaranteeing it. I do recall hoping it would happen. Oh well.

[NewUserName]

Funny How the White Sox have the best team in baseball and are sticking with Brian Anderson in CF. I agree that Murton hasnt been productive however it is not like this team is productive as a whole. WE are way below average offensively at at least 5 positions. So why would be send down a player that may have a future.

 

I do get sick of fans and management that thinks we can somehow save this disaster of a season. Just let Murton play. In 2 yrs when he is a 850 ops guy you will be happy we did. If we send him down, in 2 yrs we will have Pedro Feliz putting up 21 hrs and a 303 obp in LF.

[Blueheart05]

Funny How the White Sox have the best team in baseball and are sticking with Brian Anderson in CF. I agree that Murton hasnt been productive however it is not like this team is productive as a whole. WE are way below average offensively at at least 5 positions. So why would be send down a player that may have a future.

 

I do get sick of fans and management that thinks we can somehow save this disaster of a season. Just let Murton play. In 2 yrs when he is a 850 ops guy you will be happy we did. If we send him down, in 2 yrs we will have Pedro Feliz putting up 21 hrs and a 303 obp in LF.

 

 

Actually, there has been a lot of speculation about demoting Anderson. In either case, the Sox have a much better offense which allows them to wait out a struggling youngster (of course, the Cubs season is likely over so they should just allow Murton to get as many at bats as possible).

[CubsBullsBears]

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

Anything to make this losing easier to take, please. If we're going to lose, play the kids. It's bad enough having to deal with the White Sox World Series winner last year, and the Cardinals and White Sox winning this year. Please, spare my insanity and play the kids.