Ken Rosenthal Reporting Cubs Going Hard After Tejada...

[Bote McBoteface]

i will be done with the cubs

[Zaphkiel]

I fail to see the need for such dramatic hand-wringing. We would be trading one potential superstar for one superstar + good pitcher. It's pretty far from the end of the world, or even a bad deal.

 

Plus, we all know that no one here will ever really be done with the Cubs. :)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I fail to see the need for such dramatic hand-wringing. We would be trading one potential superstar for one superstar + good pitcher. It's pretty far from the end of the world, or even a bad deal.

 

If Tejada is a superstar, then Prior is. Their numbers compared to the league are similar, and if anything favor Prior.

 

OPS+ for Tejada

 

Career: 112

Last 3 years: 125

 

ERA+ for Prior

 

Career: 132

Last 3 years: 134

 

 

And Bedard, of the 103 ERA+ and career 1.50 WHIP, is average at best as a Major Leaguer to date.

[FergieJ31]

The Orioles are pissing me off again. They pissed me off last year about the trade for sosa and now they are at it again. Prior and Tejada should never be mentioned in the same sentence when proposing a trade. Now that Chuck Lamar is gone Angelos thinks its his duty to become the donkey GM of the league. Screw these birds, let them rot in 4th place in the AL east. They want to much in this deal. Kiss my ass.

 

Amen brother. Tejada for Prior? :pig:

 

I remember Jul 2004 shortly before the deadline, when everyone assumed that the Red Sox would demand *at least* Clement to start talking about a Nomar deal. This situation reminds me a little of that. If Tejada really is traded to the Cubs (0.01% chance, but we said that about Nomar in late Jul 2004 too), it will NOT be for Prior -- there will be a 3rd team involved.

[ctcf]

I really hope this doesn't happen. I don't want to have to change my AIM name and such...

[Connor McConnor]

I would hate to miss the opportunity to watch Mark Prior tun into the next Kerry Wood. Over-hyped / oft injured pitcher who never lives up to his promise.

 

the 03 Prior is the pitcher everyone is talking about here. We havent really seen that guy for awhile. Prior got shellacked more than once in the last few years. And had many episodes of wildness and walks. "Injuries" are the reason given mostly....maybe.....or maybe the league figured him out after a year or so?

 

I find it hard to believe that people would "quit the Cubs" (Said in various ways)...over a guy that has been very inconsistent up to this point. He's got lots of potential...but he has NOT dominated the league consistently. For WHATEVER reason. By the tone of the posts you would think he's Nolan Ryan in his prime. Perhaps he will be someday....but he's certainly looked shakey....and has a lot to prove.

 

By the way.....both Prior and Wood had opportunities of a lifetime handed to them in 03. That is.....lead the Cubs to a World Series with 1 victory. BOTH FAILED. Granted....they didnt get much help....but if there was ever a time for a complete game of your life.....that was it. Didnt happen.

 

What's more likely? Prior develops some sort of arm trouble or other injuries over the next 5 years....or Tejada builds on a solid, proven career as one of the top SS in the game....and plays nearly everyday....and adds incredible punch to the lineup? Of course both could get hurt.....but whats more likely?

 

Enough hype and promise.....I want results. I'm not certain this is the right thing to do....but to act like trading Prior is the end of the world is silly......its worth considering and may be a good idea if you can get enough in return.

[abuck1220]

i really can't believe that this is even being discussed outside of inane message board trade proposals. the whole thing is ridiculous. if you wanted an impact bat that would cost you millions of dollars, why not just throw the bank at giles and keep prior? or better yet, signed tejada when he was a FA? or signed jeff kent? or vlad?

 

i was glad that the cubs didn't sign furcal, but now i'm starting to think that throwing 13 mil at furcal would have at least prevented this...i'd rather have furcal + prior than tejada + bedard. jeez.

[ConstableRabbit]

I really hope this doesn't happen. I don't want to have to change my AIM name and such...

 

Well I already have PriorLvr69... what could yours be?

[Laura]

I would hate to miss the opportunity to watch Mark Prior tun into the next Kerry Wood. Over-hyped / oft injured pitcher who never lives up to his promise.

 

I disagree.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

I find it hard to believe that people would "quit the Cubs" (Said in various ways)...over a guy that has been very inconsistent up to this point. He's got lots of potential...but he has NOT dominated the league consistently. For WHATEVER reason. By the tone of the posts you would think he's Nolan Ryan in his prime. Perhaps he will be someday....but he's certainly looked shakey....and has a lot to prove.

 

another boring stats listing, but it IS funny to see you dismiss Prior as inconsistent and then excuse concerns over trading him because he's no Nolan Ryan. heh.

 

Name    Age  YR   IPs  ERA   WHIP   K/9   BB/9  K/BB  ERA+*  HR/9  OPPavg  
Nolan    21  68   134  3.09  2.67    8.9  5.0   1.8    24     .81  .200       
Prior    21  02   117  3.32  1.17   11.3  2.9   3.9   122    1.08  .226     

Nolan    22  69    89  3.53  1.27    9.3  5.3   1.8   104     .30  .189       
Prior    22  03   211  2.43  1.10   10.4  2.1   4.9   175     .64  .231      

Nolan    23  70   132  3.42  1.39    8.5  6.6   1.3   117     .78  .188         
Prior    23  04   119  4.02  1.21   10.5  3.6   2.9   113    1.06  .251   

Nolan    24  71   152  3.97  1.59    8.1  6.9   1.2    86     .47  .219           
Prior    24  05   167  3.67  1.21   10.2  3.2   3.2   116    1.35  .227   

*ERA+ as Baseball Reference does it -- % +"better than" league average

 

Nolan had the advantage of pitching in a much less offensive era (baseball-wise); he pitched out of the bullpen often in his early days; and he pitched in pitching parks.

 

[for the Gallagher fans out there, Nolan was also a 12th round draft pick]

 

You scoff at the notion that Prior is some sort of Nolan Ryan.

 

Would you trade a 24-year-old Nolan Ryan for Miguel Tejada?

 

Because Prior is better at 24 years old than Nolan was.

 

*ETA: this is not a knock on NOLAN -- you don't pitch 7 no-hitters on a fluke. He was unhittable quite often, and who doesn't love NOLAN? But you also don't dismiss what Prior has done consistently and early on compared to other pitchers ... especially since Chicago sports radio seems to think Prior sucks but all these other pitchers rocked.

[Outshined_One]

You take a 130 mph line drive off your pitching arm and get upended by Marcus Giles on the basepaths...all of a sudden you're injury-prone.

 

Come on, painting Mark Prior like he's some sort of brittle and injury-prone never will be is an absolute mistake. As far as I'm concerned, it's a miracle he actually came back a month after taking that line drive off his pitching arm. Heck, when I saw it, I legitimately thought that his pitching career could well have been over at that point. If anything, that showed me his ability to recover from injury is pretty darn good.

 

Something tells me there isn't any pitcher out there who could take a shot like that to his pitching arm and not get injured.

[CubsWin]

i really can't believe that this is even being discussed outside of inane message board trade proposals. the whole thing is ridiculous. if you wanted an impact bat that would cost you millions of dollars, why not just throw the bank at giles and keep prior? or better yet, signed tejada when he was a FA? or signed jeff kent? or vlad?

 

i was glad that the cubs didn't sign furcal, but now i'm starting to think that throwing 13 mil at furcal would have at least prevented this...i'd rather have furcal + prior than tejada + bedard. jeez.

First off, I agree with you. There are very few people I would trade Prior for and Tejada isn't one of them. And, yes, it would make a lot of sense to have signed Tejada or Vlad or whomever as a free agent instead of trading someone like Prior for them. No one would argue that point.

 

However, we are referring to those potential signings as if all Hendry had to do was write the check. Its not that simple. Yes, the money is important but often it is far from the only deciding factor. There is a lot of evidence that suggests Giles never intended to leave San Diego. It may be true that Hendry never really pursued the others. But, then again, it may not.

 

Realities are what they are. Sosa and his contract were on the team when many of those guys were out there. The payroll, which has expanded every season, was smaller back then. And then there are the issues of guy's possibly wanting to stay in the American League or live in a certain area. We just don't know.

 

It may be an accurate criticism of Hendry to say he should have signed so and so instead of considering to make a trade like this one. But this specific criticism, which has been made by several different posters in this thread, suffers from revisionist history. I think it is important that we remember that.

[soapy]

By the way.....both Prior and Wood had opportunities of a lifetime handed to them in 03. That is.....lead the Cubs to a World Series with 1 victory. BOTH FAILED. Granted....they didnt get much help....but if there was ever a time for a complete game of your life.....that was it. Didnt happen.

 

What???

 

The Cubs wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs (let alone made it to the LCS) with out Prior and Wood. FAILED?? Oh my God.

[CuseCubFan69]

You take a 130 mph line drive off your pitching arm and get upended by Marcus Giles on the basepaths...all of a sudden you're injury-prone.

 

Come on, painting Mark Prior like he's some sort of brittle and injury-prone never will be is an absolute mistake. As far as I'm concerned, it's a miracle he actually came back a month after taking that line drive off his pitching arm. Heck, when I saw it, I legitimately thought that his pitching career could well have been over at that point. If anything, that showed me his ability to recover from injury is pretty darn good.

 

Something tells me there isn't any pitcher out there who could take a shot like that to his pitching arm and not get injured.

 

Gammons just said that he wouldn't make the Tejada for Prior deal because Prior is an injury risk. They also mentioned (Gammy + Phillips) on how great Bedyard (sp) is. Isn't he older than Prior?

[CubinNY]

You take a 130 mph line drive off your pitching arm and get upended by Marcus Giles on the basepaths...all of a sudden you're injury-prone.

 

Come on, painting Mark Prior like he's some sort of brittle and injury-prone never will be is an absolute mistake. As far as I'm concerned, it's a miracle he actually came back a month after taking that line drive off his pitching arm. Heck, when I saw it, I legitimately thought that his pitching career could well have been over at that point. If anything, that showed me his ability to recover from injury is pretty darn good.

 

Something tells me there isn't any pitcher out there who could take a shot like that to his pitching arm and not get injured.

 

Gammons just said that he wouldn't make the Tejada for Prior deal because Prior is an injury risk. They also mentioned (Gammy + Phillips) on how great Bedyard (sp) is. Isn't he older than Prior?

 

I heard the same thing. It is just like I wrote on page whatever. We see Prior differently than 99% of the baseball world. It doen't mean anyone is right or wrong in their view.

 

Both Gammons and Phillips, mentioned that Bedard could be a # 1 or #2 starter down the road.

 

What they were painfully ignorant on were the additional palyers that were being moved.

 

I don't really think either of them know anything more than we do.

[nolanwood]

You take a 130 mph line drive off your pitching arm and get upended by Marcus Giles on the basepaths...all of a sudden you're injury-prone.

 

Come on, painting Mark Prior like he's some sort of brittle and injury-prone never will be is an absolute mistake. As far as I'm concerned, it's a miracle he actually came back a month after taking that line drive off his pitching arm. Heck, when I saw it, I legitimately thought that his pitching career could well have been over at that point. If anything, that showed me his ability to recover from injury is pretty darn good.

 

Something tells me there isn't any pitcher out there who could take a shot like that to his pitching arm and not get injured.

 

Gammons just said that he wouldn't make the Tejada for Prior deal because Prior is an injury risk. They also mentioned (Gammy + Phillips) on how great Bedyard (sp) is. Isn't he older than Prior?

 

I heard the same thing. It is just like I wrote on page whatever. We see Prior differently than 99% of the baseball world. It doen't mean anyone is right or wrong in their view.

 

Both Gammons and Phillips, mentioned that Bedard could be a # 1 or #2 starter down the road.

 

What they were painfully ignorant on were the additional palyers that were being moved.

 

I don't really think either of them know anything more than we do.

 

Actually, I think it DOES mean something is wrong with their view, a pitcher who received one legitimate injury over a three year period is by no means whatsoever injury prone. The line drive off his arm in no way factors in to his injured past.

 

Gammons is an idiot, and Byrnes will never be a #1 or #2 starter. He had a CAREER year last year, that resulted in a 6-8 record, 4.00 era and 1.38 whip.

[CuseCubFan69]

You take a 130 mph line drive off your pitching arm and get upended by Marcus Giles on the basepaths...all of a sudden you're injury-prone.

 

Come on, painting Mark Prior like he's some sort of brittle and injury-prone never will be is an absolute mistake. As far as I'm concerned, it's a miracle he actually came back a month after taking that line drive off his pitching arm. Heck, when I saw it, I legitimately thought that his pitching career could well have been over at that point. If anything, that showed me his ability to recover from injury is pretty darn good.

 

Something tells me there isn't any pitcher out there who could take a shot like that to his pitching arm and not get injured.

 

Gammons just said that he wouldn't make the Tejada for Prior deal because Prior is an injury risk. They also mentioned (Gammy + Phillips) on how great Bedyard (sp) is. Isn't he older than Prior?

 

I heard the same thing. It is just like I wrote on page whatever. We see Prior differently than 99% of the baseball world. It doen't mean anyone is right or wrong in their view.

 

Both Gammons and Phillips, mentioned that Bedard could be a # 1 or #2 starter down the road.

 

What they were painfully ignorant on were the additional palyers that were being moved.

 

I don't really think either of them know anything more than we do.

 

I agree. I'm kind of bummed about that because I always thought that Gammons was really informative when I read the Sporting News many years ago. Now, I realize that maybe it was because Bill Conlin was the other beat writer and it just made him look better.

 

A lot of posters have mentioned that smae thing, how we over value our players like most fans do of their teams. This is why the great comprimise is when both sides (fans) are feeling uneasy about a deal.

Edited December 23, 2005 by CuseCubFan69

[nolanwood]

I agree that we overvalue some of our players for sure.....but, Prior by no means is overvalued.

[CubinNY]

I agree that we overvalue some of our players for sure.....but, Prior by no means is overvalued.

 

That is your opinion.

[nolanwood]

I agree that we overvalue some of our players for sure.....but, Prior by no means is overvalued.

 

That is your opinion.

 

yes it is

 

 

It has also been a longstanding opinion of mine that Peter Gammons is one of the dumbest analysts in baseball.....

Edited December 23, 2005 by nolanwood

[Tim]

I would like to mention one more time that Tejada usually walks fewer times each season than Corey did in '04.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Just because the fact that Prior took line drive off his pitching arm was freaky and not his fault doesn't mean it's not a concern. Prior understandably didn't look right after coming back last year. It's reasonable to believe it will effect his trade value.

 

edit - That said, I would not trade Tejada for Prior if I were the Cubs

[nolanwood]

Just because Prior took line drive off his pitching arm was freaky and not his fault doesn't mean it's not a concern. Prior understandably didn't look right after coming back last year. It's reasonable to believe it will effect his trade value.

 

edit - That said, I would not trade Tejada for Prior if I were the Cubs

 

Well, that is definitely something I hadn't thought of. I think most Cub's fans are just tired of hearing his name associated with "injury problems".

[UK1679666180]

I would like to mention one more time that Tejada usually walks fewer times each season than Corey did in '04.

 

I have to ask...

 

Likely, greater difference in production going from Cedeno to Tejada or Burnitz (now Jones) to Abreu/Dunn?

 

Just trying to gauge, how much the fact that Tejada plays SS is factoring into the equation?

[Wheelimus]

I just think it's dumb to move Prior now. If you're willing to trade him, let him start the season, show he's back to his old self, and then see what you can get midseason, when teams will know they have him under control for another 2 and a half seasons.

 

That being said, I'd prefer not to move Prior, we're a top payroll team, we can afford to keep the best after arbitration years. And that is even more so the case when you consider that Tejada & Bedard minus Prior doesn't put us in a guaranteed spot to win the division.

[Tim]

I would like to mention one more time that Tejada usually walks fewer times each season than Corey did in '04.

 

I have to ask...

 

Likely, greater difference in production going from Cedeno to Tejada or Burnitz (now Jones) to Abreu/Dunn?

 

Just trying to gauge, how much the fact that Tejada plays SS is factoring into the equation?

For '06, I think it is very likely to be a bigger boost to production to go to Abreu than the other two. However, I can see the argument against him because he's older. I can't see the Cubs valuing Dunn correctly because of the K's and I think they would be very uncomfortable shipping Prior within the division.