Yanks pursuing Furcal as a CF (talks start on Pierre to Cub)

[gflore34]

Free agent after this season? Maybe, ala Womack for the Cards in 2004, he'll have a career season for the Cubs (along with helping them to the WS) and be ridiculously overpaid by the Yankees in 2007. Go for it Hendry!

[Mark_R]

if pierre can get his OBP back up around .375, i'd like to see him in chicago. contrary to the beliefs of many, i think furcal is a much better #2 hitter than a leadoff hitter.

 

How old is Pierre? I thought they have done many studies on "speedster single hitters" and how their production falls after a certain age.

 

Pierre turned 28 in August, and is a free agent after this season.

 

This should make him pretty cheap for the Cubs player wise...right?

 

Cuse, they've been speculating all morning on the Score (take with a grain of salt) that they're talking up a straight swap of Patterson for Pierre.

[BigbadB]

The Cubs have been at or near the top in HR's each year for the last umpteen years. What has it gotten them? They have 2 guys with 40 HR power already on the team. What they need is a lefty complement between them. It doesn't have to be another 40 HR guy. Just a guy with good OBP and a decent SLG. I'd take Bradley, especially if they are just giving him away. He can play center or right.

 

What I really want more than anything is a whole line up of guys who can get on base at a .350+ clip. If you just went with speed and OBP to fill all the spots, I'd be fine with it. For example, I could deal with this line up:

 

Furcal SS

Castillo 2b

Lee 1b

Bradley RF

Ramirez 3b

Murton LF

Pierre CF

Barrett C

 

You have potentially 5 guys who can steal 20+ bases. You have 8 guys who can all get on base at a .350+ clip. You have improved the defense tremendously in both the infield and the outfield.

 

I'd rather have Giles in RF, but if you fill the line up all the way through with .350+ OBP, I think you have a team that scores 800+ runs throughout the season.

 

Bradley is a hard read. He hasn't played a full season. His last 2 seasons were in a pitchers park. It looks like he was on pace for a 30 HR season in LA. Not bad. Put him in the hitter friendly NL Central and watch him go.

 

It might be a good idea to pick up a little insurance in case we need to TO Bradley. Maybe Pie would be ready by that time, or maybe someone could be picked up at the trade deadline.

 

It seems like Hendry likes youth and speed more than aging and risk. As long as that youth and speed can also get on base at a good clip, I think he can come out all right on this.

[CuseCubFan69]

if pierre can get his OBP back up around .375, i'd like to see him in chicago. contrary to the beliefs of many, i think furcal is a much better #2 hitter than a leadoff hitter.

 

How old is Pierre? I thought they have done many studies on "speedster single hitters" and how their production falls after a certain age.

 

Pierre turned 28 in August, and is a free agent after this season.

 

This should make him pretty cheap for the Cubs player wise...right?

 

Cuse, they've been speculating all morning on the Score (take with a grain of salt) that they're talking up a straight swap of Patterson for Pierre.

 

Thanks Mark. I don't know how that makes me feel. On one hand I think Patterson could come back and be a very good CF but on the other I think he would be better off with another team for a fresh start. But, with this fresh start what if he hits 20 HR's and hits 280/310? Who is better defensively between the two? If the Cubs do not sign Furcal at least they would have a leadoff hitter in Pierre. But, if the Cubs sign Furcal and an impact bat in right could they just slide CPatt in the 7th slot and get decent production from that slot? What if CPatt has indeed lost it and will never be the player he was or could have been. What if the fish find the flaw and he is a 30/300 guy? This is a tough one for me and this is why potential is such a GM killer..

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

From the Stats Inc Scouting report on Mench:

 

Mench's nickname is Shrek, because he's got a giant-sized melon, but he's not a lumbering monster. He split time between left and right, which are two vastly different positions in Arlington. He's got just enough range to handle the big left field. He's got a plus arm for right. Though he didn't steal a base in 2004, he moves a lot faster than he looks. He is not necessarily just a station-to-station runner.

 

He's a decent fielder. He's not gold glove, but he has a strong and accurate arm. He definitely doesn't "suck" as a fielder.

 

His hitting stats aren't great, but they aren't poor either. He has a good deal of power. He's 27 years old, so he's just entering his prime.

 

Your comparisons to Burntiz are a little out of whack as well. In 2005, Mench put up a 272/334/484 line. In 2005, Burntiz hit 258/322/435. Mench was better across the board. Maybe he compares somewhat to Burnitz at the same age, as at age 27 Burnitz hit 265/377/470 and those are certainly more comparable to Mench. So if they're comparable at the same age, maybe Mench can replicate Burnitz's 281/382/533 season at age 28 as well.

 

The two are somewhat comparable players, but only if you compare them at similar ages. I wouldn't be surprised to see them follow similar career paths which would mean now is the time to grab Mench as he's about to experience his best 3-4 seasons. Comparing a 27 yr old Mench to the production of a 36 yr old Burntiz isn't a valid comparison.

[JeffH]

I know the "an out is an out" crowd will go nuts, but Mench puts the ball in play a lot more frequently that does ol' Jeromy.

 

Mench isn't great, but he'd be quite cheap for the Cubs next season. He'd fit nicely batting sixth. Unfortunately, the Cubs need someone to hit FIFTH.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I know the "an out is an out" crowd will go nuts, but Mench puts the ball in play a lot more frequently that does ol' Jeromy.

 

Mench isn't great, but he'd be quite cheap for the Cubs next season. He'd fit nicely batting sixth. Unfortunately, the Cubs need someone to hit FIFTH.

 

How much Mench would help depends greatly on the rest of the make-up of the team. I don't think he makes a horrible fifth hitter and he looks very good in the sixth spot.

 

Assume we have Furcal and Pierre for 1 & 2, Lee and Ramirez for 3 &4. If Murton, Barrett, and Cedeno make out the rest of the line-up...Mench may be a little weak for a five, but Barrett and Murton are likely better than a lot of 7 hitters. Cedeno is still a question mark in the eight spot.

[BigbadB]

I'll probably get assaulted by Vance, but I see Mench as a 4th outfielder.

 

Good thing I have mod powers. :P

[David]

In addition, two reports put the Marlins in the middle of preliminary discussions on a multiteam trade that is said to involve the Chicago Cubs' Corey Patterson and Florida's Juan Pierre.

 

This would suggest that it's a more than two team trade.

 

Maybe it's some adaptation of the trade Hoops told us about a few weeks ago.

[JeffH]

Patterson and Lowell to the Dodgers, Pierre to the Cubs, OPerez and Bradley to the Marlins.

 

Add as necessary.

[CuseCubFan69]

Patterson and Lowell to the Dodgers, Pierre to the Cubs, OPerez and Bradley to the Marlins.

 

Add as necessary.

 

A loud scream.

[rawaction]

Furcal and Pierre could be really good for the Cubs. If Pierre can get back to his .360-370 OBP days (contract year), and Furcal can continue his string of .350ish OBP work, that's a lot of speedy baserunners for Lee and Ramirez. A solid 1-4, although probably not as productive as they'll get paid to be. The Cubs still need a 5-hitter. Right now, Murton is the guy protecting Ramirez. A bat in RF is still the biggest need on this team. I could settle for Bradley, because I truly believe he is gonna get back to at least the .875 OPS range if not .900. LA isn't a great place to hit, and he was on his way there before missing so much time this season.

[CuseCubFan69]

I just see the Marlins making out like a bandit after that trade.

[USSoccer]

Furcal and Pierre could be really good for the Cubs. If Pierre can get back to his .360-370 OBP days (contract year), and Furcal can continue his string of .350ish OBP work, that's a lot of speedy baserunners for Lee and Ramirez. A solid 1-4, although probably not as productive as they'll get paid to be. The Cubs still need a 5-hitter. Right now, Murton is the guy protecting Ramirez. A bat in RF is still the biggest need on this team. I could settle for Bradley, because I truly believe he is gonna get back to at least the .875 OPS range if not .900. LA isn't a great place to hit, and he was on his way there before missing so much time this season.

 

I agree. It would signifigantly help the offense to have those 2 guys in front of Lee and Ramirez all season.

 

Could Barrett bat 5th?

[jmajew]

Anybody know how much Milton Bradley would make next year. This past year he made 2.5 mil. He seems like a reasonably priced option allowing us to sign another starter and work on the bullpen.

[rawaction]

Furcal and Pierre could be really good for the Cubs. If Pierre can get back to his .360-370 OBP days (contract year), and Furcal can continue his string of .350ish OBP work, that's a lot of speedy baserunners for Lee and Ramirez. A solid 1-4, although probably not as productive as they'll get paid to be. The Cubs still need a 5-hitter. Right now, Murton is the guy protecting Ramirez. A bat in RF is still the biggest need on this team. I could settle for Bradley, because I truly believe he is gonna get back to at least the .875 OPS range if not .900. LA isn't a great place to hit, and he was on his way there before missing so much time this season.

 

I agree. It would signifigantly help the offense to have those 2 guys in front of Lee and Ramirez all season.

 

Could Barrett bat 5th?

 

Yeah, but still that's a huge hole in the lineup. A 5-8 of Barrett, Murton, mediocre RF, and Perez doesn't scare anyone. Hell, now that I think of it, Neifi would probably hit 5th.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Could Barrett bat 5th?

 

Heck yes, he could:

 

Batting #5 .339/.431/.625/1.056

Batting #6 .382/.439/.674/1.113

 

Granted, this was 56 and 89 ABs respectively, but those numbers look pretty darn good to me.

[rawaction]

Could Barrett bat 5th?

 

Heck yes, he could:

 

Batting #5 .339/.431/.625/1.056

Batting #6 .382/.439/.674/1.113

 

Granted, this was 56 and 89 ABs respectively, but those numbers look pretty darn good to me.

 

Yeah they do, but obviously they wouldn't hold up. The Cubs can and should do a lot better than Barrett in the middle of the order.

[mg420]

Could Barrett bat 5th?

 

Heck yes, he could:

 

Batting #5 .339/.431/.625/1.056

Batting #6 .382/.439/.674/1.113

 

Granted, this was 56 and 89 ABs respectively, but those numbers look pretty darn good to me.

 

i would still like to see a lefty batting 5th, hopefully whoever they get to play right. tracy or wilkerson would be nice or perhaps floyd (although i recall someone here saying that the cubs would never play floyd in rf) if he has the defense & arm to do so.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Fine, we'll plug Godzilla in the 5 spot, and Barrett will just have to hit .382 in the 6 hole. :)

[rawaction]

Fine, we'll plug Godzilla in the 5 spot, and Barrett will just have to hit .382 in the 6 hole. :)

 

Ok. We got a deal!

[mg420]

Fine, we'll plug Godzilla in the 5 spot, and Barrett will just have to hit .382 in the 6 hole. :)

 

sounds good. my compliments on your avatar btw.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Anybody know how much Milton Bradley would make next year. This past year he made 2.5 mil. He seems like a reasonably priced option allowing us to sign another starter and work on the bullpen.

 

Bradley will probably get around 4 million next year.

[jmajew]

Anybody know how much Milton Bradley would make next year. This past year he made 2.5 mil. He seems like a reasonably priced option allowing us to sign another starter and work on the bullpen.

 

Bradley will probably get around 4 million next year.

 

If thats the case Bradley is the guy we should go out and get to play RF. You hopefully sign Furcal to play short and then get Lofton as a stopgap in center until Pie is ready.

 

Furcal

Lofton

Lee

Ramirez

Bradley

Barrett

Murton

Cedeno

 

Looks pretty solid to me and is an affordable lineup. Probably about 40 mil. That would leave us with enough money to go out and fill the holes in the pen and the bench.

[Guest]

Your comparisons to Burntiz are a little out of whack as well. In 2005, Mench put up a 272/334/484 line. In 2005, Burntiz hit 258/322/435. Mench was better across the board.

Mench was definitely better than Burnitz in 2005, but it's not like his line was extrordinarily better. Taking into account park factors further narrows the gap as Arlington is one of the most hitter-friendly parks in the majors.

 

Yes, having Mench in our outfield would be a little better than having Burnitz out there. Given just how sorry our outfield was last season, however, getting just a little better isn't going to cut it.