Predict the Apology

[CuseCubFan69]

When they slow the play down, it appears the ball does move up into the glove slightly when it's trajectory was toward the ground. so, I'm not convinced the ball never hit the ground.

 

The catcher is not looking at the ump who never uttered a word. It doesn't look like the catcher caught the umps signal, but it is odd for the ump to signal.

 

At the end of the day, this wasn't the only thing that won the game, Crede hit a legit double to capitalize.

 

IMO it was too close for Paul to take that chance to not tag or throw a slow runner out.

 

Yes the umps screwed up and Katway is right....the Sox took advantage.

[CuseCubFan69]

A.J. is on Jim Rome's tv show atm, he just lied about how he started back to the dugout before going to 1st "I was off-balance"

At least saying you heard 2 noises is plausible (the glove hitting+ball hitting glove)

 

AJP has always been "offbalance". :D

[Chris]

Don't forget that AJ lied about that play from a year ago. There's a big difference between a ball being called in the dirt and a ball that is obviously dropped from the glove of the catcher.

[Andy]

He's been lying about everything. How about someone asks him, flat out, why he manipulated the umpire. While we're at it, ask him why he kicked a SF trainer in the balls last spring.

[CuseCubFan69]

Don't forget that AJ lied about that play from a year ago. There's a big difference between a ball being called in the dirt and a ball that is obviously dropped from the glove of the catcher.

 

Then wouldn't the ump have given Paul the benefit of doubt then?

[Careless]

He's been lying about everything. How about someone asks him, flat out, why he manipulated the umpire. While we're at it, ask him why he kicked a SF trainer in the balls last spring.

From what I saw last year, most people on this board think players should fake being hit by pitches if they can sell it to the umpire. I don't see how this (AJ's behavior) is any different

[Chris]

Don't forget that AJ lied about that play from a year ago. There's a big difference between a ball being called in the dirt and a ball that is obviously dropped from the glove of the catcher.

 

Then wouldn't the ump have given Paul the benefit of doubt then?

 

But he didn't call the ball in the dirt, he called in "no contact" and rung him up.

[Chris]

He's been lying about everything. How about someone asks him, flat out, why he manipulated the umpire. While we're at it, ask him why he kicked a SF trainer in the balls last spring.

From what I saw last year, most people on this board think players should fake being hit by pitches if they can sell it to the umpire. I don't see how this (AJ's behavior) is any different

 

I can't rip on AJ because he turned and saw the umpire giving the no contact signal and not the out signal.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

[snoodmonger]

Don't know if this has been discussed or posted already (not in the mod to read 25 pages), but this is a pretty nice breakdown by an Angels fan. He makes some nice points.

 

 

 

http://anaheimangelsblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/breaking-it-down-i-posted-this-in.html

[RynoRules]

Don't forget that AJ lied about that play from a year ago. There's a big difference between a ball being called in the dirt and a ball that is obviously dropped from the glove of the catcher.

 

Then wouldn't the ump have given Paul the benefit of doubt then?

 

But he didn't call the ball in the dirt, he called in "no contact" and rung him up.

 

EXACTLY - and if he had thought the ball had been dropped and/or hit the ground first, he would have made a "safe" signal and called out "no catch". He admitted in the press conference that he did not yell out "no catch", and Paul stated the same.

 

He blew the call, lied about it, and had his umpire buddies sitting on the podium like they were his attnys, trying to bail him out. Supremely arrogant.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Like I said earlier, whether Paul sees the call or rolls the ball too early is irrelevant. If Paul screwed up and Eddings didn't make the out sign, then Escobar gets the ball and throws out AJP by 5 steps. But he did make the out sign so the infield rightfully thought it was an out.

[Jehrico]

Does anyone else think Soscia blew it on this one? The rule for protesting was stated on one of the earlier pages of this thread, he can't protest whether or not the ball hit the ground. However, he could have protested the fact that the play was set up by the umpire pumping his fist calling the out, then reversing the call. Had the umpire made his call clearly known from the get-go, there would have been no controversy. But since he didn't inform the ump before the next pitch that they were going to finish the game under protest, now a protest can't be reviewed. I think he blew it.

[CuseCubFan69]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

 

It was a chance to do just that.

[Chris]

ha ha, congrats, Cuse

 

Most active topic: Predict the Apology

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:lol:

[XZero771679666304]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

 

It was a chance to do just that.

 

But why would he have? The ump didn't call no catch, the rest of the infielders saw the ump call him out, and were running off the field. It was the same as any other inning ending strikeout, except that Eddings changed his mind after all the fielders were out of position, and AJP was at first.

 

You just can't blame the Angels for this.

[Andy]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

 

It was a chance to do just that.

 

But why would he have? The ump didn't call no catch, the rest of the infielders saw the ump call him out, and were running off the field. It was the same as any other inning ending strikeout, except that Eddings changed his mind after all the fielders were out of position, and AJP was at first.

 

You just can't blame the Angels for this.

The only thing the Angels did wrong was fail to realize how galactically stupid the home plate umpire was. And if we're supposed to assume the umpires are stupid, then why are they hired?

[CuseCubFan69]

ha ha, congrats, Cuse

 

Most active topic: Predict the Apology

[89 posts, 24.45% of the topic, 0.05% of the forum]

 

:lol:

 

Can I change the title to "I'm alone in my convictions"?

[UBlink]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

 

The Angels also need to make a point of running to 1st base on every strikeout just in case the ump might think the ball was dropped.

[CuseCubFan69]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

 

It was a chance to do just that.

 

But why would he have? The ump didn't call no catch, the rest of the infielders saw the ump call him out, and were running off the field. It was the same as any other inning ending strikeout, except that Eddings changed his mind after all the fielders were out of position, and AJP was at first.

 

You just can't blame the Angels for this.

 

My point is that the Angels are not blameless. Harvey, yeah an old ump, just said that it is considered coaching for the ump to tell the catcher the ball was not caught. It is Pauls job to secure the out and he did not do so. He also said that until you yell your out it isn;'t an out which is a point I made a long time ago. A catcher does not know a batter is out until he is told by the ump.

[LoneStarCubFan]

Does anyone else think Soscia blew it on this one? The rule for protesting was stated on one of the earlier pages of this thread, he can't protest whether or not the ball hit the ground. However, he could have protested the fact that the play was set up by the umpire pumping his fist calling the out, then reversing the call. Had the umpire made his call clearly known from the get-go, there would have been no controversy. But since he didn't inform the ump before the next pitch that they were going to finish the game under protest, now a protest can't be reviewed. I think he blew it.

 

No. Because there's no way the protest has a chance to be upheld and Scioscia knows that. He's taking the high road, which has to be extremely tough to do given the spectacular incompetence of this crew of umpires. But he's a long-time ML manager so I guess he's used to dealing with that level of umpire incompetence on a regular basis.

 

The other reason he has to soldier on and shut up is that ML umpires are well known for carrying grudges and the Angels would be more than screwed from here on out if he had called out Eddings, Crawford and Co. for their complete lack of professional ability in the postgame press conference.

[XZero771679666304]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.

 

You're right. I saw the fist pump while Paul was still in his crouch. If the Angels are at fault there, then everyone better tag every batter after every strike 3 call, everytime.

 

The Angels definitely will.

 

I wouldn't just tag them. If it's AJP, I slap him as hard as I can with the ball.

 

It was a chance to do just that.

 

But why would he have? The ump didn't call no catch, the rest of the infielders saw the ump call him out, and were running off the field. It was the same as any other inning ending strikeout, except that Eddings changed his mind after all the fielders were out of position, and AJP was at first.

 

You just can't blame the Angels for this.

 

My point is that the Angels are not blameless. Harvey, yeah an old ump, just said that it is considered coaching for the ump to tell the catcher the ball was not caught. It is Pauls job to secure the out and he did not do so. He also said that until you yell your out it isn;'t an out which is a point I made a long time ago. A catcher does not know a batter is out until he is told by the ump.

 

But the point is that the position you are advocating dictates that the catcher should tag the batter on anything boderline, players should always assume the batter isn't out. That's unreasonable.

[UBlink]

But the point is that the position you are advocating dictates that the catcher should tag the batter on anything boderline, players should always assume the batter isn't out. That's unreasonable.

 

I wear my seatbelt every time I get in the car, and I haven't been in an accident in over 20 years - I guess I'm unreasonable, too.

[CuseCubFan69]

My point is that the Angels are not blameless. Harvey, yeah an old ump, just said that it is considered coaching for the ump to tell the catcher the ball was not caught. It is Pauls job to secure the out and he did not do so. He also said that until you yell your out it isn;'t an out which is a point I made a long time ago. A catcher does not know a batter is out until he is told by the ump.

 

But the point is that the position you are advocating dictates that the catcher should tag the batter on anything boderline, players should always assume the batter isn't out. That's unreasonable.

 

On borderline plays like that you are absolutely wrong, the defensive players can never assume an offensive player is out. Until the ump says they are....says and shows the signal they are safe. You ask any coach....any coach and he'll tell you to take the decision out of the umps hands and make the easy tag. Assuming anything gets you can get you exactly what happened to the Angels. I don't think the extra effort is unreasonable in any way.

[Andy]

My point is that the Angels are not blameless. Harvey, yeah an old ump, just said that it is considered coaching for the ump to tell the catcher the ball was not caught. It is Pauls job to secure the out and he did not do so. He also said that until you yell your out it isn;'t an out which is a point I made a long time ago. A catcher does not know a batter is out until he is told by the ump.

 

But the point is that the position you are advocating dictates that the catcher should tag the batter on anything boderline, players should always assume the batter isn't out. That's unreasonable.

 

On borderline plays like that you are absolutely wrong, the defensive players can never assume an offensive player is out. Until the ump says they are....says and shows the signal they are safe. You ask any coach....any coach and he'll tell you to take the decision out of the umps hands and make the easy tag. Assuming anything gets you can get you exactly what happened to the Angels. I don't think the extra effort is unreasonable in any way.

From what I have been hearing, the ump has to yell "live ball" if he doesn't think a strike is caught. Paul says he heard nothing, and that is why he did nothing. This is the ump's fault and not Paul's in any way. Paul was not leaving the decision in the ump's hands because the ump had not said "live ball", so Paul rightly thought the decision had already been made.

 

Saying Paul should have tagged him is akin to saying that on a double play grounder, the guy at second should stand on the bag until he heard the umpire call "out" before throwing it over to first.