Predict the Apology

[Chris]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

[TheDude]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

7)Ozzie Guillen

[CuseCubFan69]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

[Chris]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

http://www.mlb.com

[Andy]

This whole thing is completely stupid. The ump called him out, then changed his mind after something else happened. Its not like he called him out then immediately called him safe, he called him out then once the batter reached first he was called safe. The umpire calling him out directly lead to the Angels not throwing the ball to first, either the catcher or pitcher.

Lets put it another way, change sports to make it clear. It would be the same thing if in football a runner is stripped of the ball while being tacked, the ref comes in and signals down by contact. As the offense goes back to huddle, a corner back comes in, scoops up the ball, and runs the other way down the field for a TD. There is no signal from the referees between "down by contact" and "TD."

 

Or basketball, a defensive player is called for a foul. The offensive player tosses the ball to the ref who moves out of the way and calls the ball out of bounds and gives it to the defense.

Its not whether it was as strike or not that has people upset; nobody cares whether the ball hit the ground, and attempts to frame the debate that way are distractions.

 

The point is the ump made a call that if he had called another way, the Angels still would have gotten the out. The play was only reversed AFTER the oppurtunity to get that out vannished.

Brilliant post, Daymen. I agree completely.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

[CuseCubFan69]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

http://www.mlb.com

 

Paul caught the ball and booked for the dugout no doubt in my mind. IMO, he tried to do the same thing everyone is accusing AJP of.

[Chris]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

This whole thing is completely stupid. The ump called him out, then changed his mind after something else happened. Its not like he called him out then immediately called him safe, he called him out then once the batter reached first he was called safe. The umpire calling him out directly lead to the Angels not throwing the ball to first, either the catcher or pitcher.

Lets put it another way, change sports to make it clear. It would be the same thing if in football a runner is stripped of the ball while being tacked, the ref comes in and signals down by contact. As the offense goes back to huddle, a corner back comes in, scoops up the ball, and runs the other way down the field for a TD. There is no signal from the referees between "down by contact" and "TD."

 

Or basketball, a defensive player is called for a foul. The offensive player tosses the ball to the ref who moves out of the way and calls the ball out of bounds and gives it to the defense.

Its not whether it was as strike or not that has people upset; nobody cares whether the ball hit the ground, and attempts to frame the debate that way are distractions.

 

The point is the ump made a call that if he had called another way, the Angels still would have gotten the out. The play was only reversed AFTER the oppurtunity to get that out vannished.

Brilliant post, Daymen. I agree completely.

 

I missed this post. I agree, that's the gist of the matter.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

http://www.mlb.com

 

Paul caught the ball and booked for the dugout no doubt in my mind. IMO, he tried to do the same thing everyone is accusing AJP of.

 

Either way, that doesn't explain the Angels IF's reaction.

[CuseCubFan69]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

[goonys evil twin]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

The ump that called him out thought he called him out. It wasn't until after AJ ran that he thought maybe he didn't call him out.

[YearofDaCubs]

All I know for sure is:

 

I hate the White Sox. Even more now. But hey..if they go all the way...we were just given a gift from heaven! We can blame it on "the call." Sweet.

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I can see the rules being changed as a result of this, particularly if the Sox win the series.

 

Think about it. A catcher drops a low called strike 3 and the batter doesn't swing. How are the players to know it was strike 3? Is it the right hand straight out or does an ump yell strike 3 but doesn't pump the batter out?

 

If the plate ump simply yelled "live runner" it would be clear what happened.

 

It definately would help the catcher since he can't see him.

 

The plate ump should definitely be required to use verbal signals for the catcher's benefit. The other umps can use visual signs.

 

True. And...it's up to the other players to be aware to help the catcher with this.

 

Given that all the players were running off the field, and indicated Eddings' fist pump when AJP started running, all the players were aware of what was going on.

 

I saw Erstad standing at first when AJP got there.

 

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2005-10/19942320.jpg

 

Look at the video, the second AJP starts running, Erstad, Kennedy and Escobar are shown in the wider view and all three make gestures similar to Eddings' fist pump or point to Eddings.

 

http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/images/2005/10/13/hDXPWAhK.jpg

[CuseCubFan69]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

The ump that called him out thought he called him out. It wasn't until after AJ ran that he thought maybe he didn't call him out.

 

I do not think that means what you think it does.

 

That's where the other umps should be able to help him. Take time to discuss it and get it right.

[goonys evil twin]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

 

I don't like this line of thinking. It works to excuse the initial mistake that caused all the trouble. The Angels "mistake" was only a "mistake" because the ump screwed up. That's like saying a driver is at fault when an oncoming car is heading straight at them, and he swerves to avoid the head on collision, then ticketing that driver for changing lanes without signaling. The Angels did nothing wrong. They just failed to make up for the ump's huge blunder.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

 

How? Cuse, that's the sign the ump has been giving for an out ALL GAME LONG. The Angels assumed it was an out because the ump signaled it was an out. He's not allowed to change his signals over the course of the game! The only Angel potentially at fault is Paul for not bothering a tag, but that doesn't matter, since Eddings pumped his fist for an out.

[Careless]

Why does MLB continue to reward staggering incompetence? Eddings is the guy who bated Johnny Estrada into an ejection in the first inning of a Braves game earlier this year and threw Bobby Cox and Mike Hampton out in the ensuing argument.

The answer to your question is called a "union"

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Look at the video. Here are the people that thought the umpire punched the batter out:

 

1) The umpire on first

2) The umpire on the line

3) The Angel players

4) The White Sox batter in hte on deck circle

5) Every broadcaster calling the game

6) The security guards who were taking their positions

 

I'm sure there are more, but it's hard to argue this point when the other umpires are going to their position between innings and even the Sox player on deck is walking to the dugout.

 

I don't know for sure that all those guys thought it but the one that mattered didn't.

 

The ump that called him out thought he called him out. It wasn't until after AJ ran that he thought maybe he didn't call him out.

 

I do not think that means what you think it does.

 

That's where the other umps should be able to help him. Take time to discuss it and get it right.

 

None of the other umps had a proper view.

[Chris]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

 

Assumed? I guess I was wrong for assuming he was out when the umpire punched him out. They also laughed at how the umpire for extra emphasis gave a kick with the fist pump. The Angels are without fault on this play because the umpire gave the signal that he was out.

[CuseCubFan69]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

 

I don't like this line of thinking. It works to excuse the initial mistake that caused all the trouble. The Angels "mistake" was only a "mistake" because the ump screwed up. That's like saying a driver is at fault when an oncoming car is heading straight at them, and he swerves to avoid the head on collision, then ticketing that driver for changing lanes without signaling. The Angels did nothing wrong. They just failed to make up for the ump's huge blunder.

 

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

[Chris]

and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

No. Simultaneous maybe, but definitely not before.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

 

I don't like this line of thinking. It works to excuse the initial mistake that caused all the trouble. The Angels "mistake" was only a "mistake" because the ump screwed up. That's like saying a driver is at fault when an oncoming car is heading straight at them, and he swerves to avoid the head on collision, then ticketing that driver for changing lanes without signaling. The Angels did nothing wrong. They just failed to make up for the ump's huge blunder.

 

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

He rolled the ball right after the ump pumped his hand. But, Paul never looked at the ump.

 

EDIT: Watch the link to "AJP's K in the ninth" on this page and you'll notice that too: http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20051013&content_id=1248589&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

Edited October 13, 2005 by CaliforniaRaisin

[CuseCubFan69]

That means the ump put the Angels in a disadvantage.

 

I went home for lunch and watched ESPNEWS and they discussed it. They said that essentially the umpire balked on the call and he deceived the players for the Angels.

 

So they assumed it was an out when it wasn't. I don't deny that the ump screwed up but the Angels are not without fault in this.

 

Assumed? I guess I was wrong for assuming he was out when the umpire punched him out. They also laughed at how the umpire for extra emphasis gave a kick with the fist pump. The Angels are without fault on this play because the umpire gave the signal that he was out.

 

I watched the replay and Paul was in a dead sprint for the bench before the fist pump. IMO he was trying to sell the strike as much as AJP was selling the bounce.

 

Also, Pauls back is to the ump...how the heck does he know what was called?

[goonys evil twin]

I am not excusing the initial mistake by the ump. Watch the replay and tell me if Paul isn't sprintiing for the clubhouse and already rolls the ball before the ump pumps his hand.

 

I've seen it, and that is definitely not the case. The ump called him out, paul rolled (and didn't sprint anywhere), then AJ ran, the ump froze, looked confused as hell, then panicked and didn't know what to do, then just stood around like an indignant idiot defending his ineptitude.