Pitchers and catchers are reporting? It's the Spring Training Thread!

[Post Count Padder]

And Ben Cowles goes to the Blue Jays.

[Bertz]

You kind of have to wonder if we get to the last week of March and the Cubs' depth is still looking strong if the team doesn't try and make a trade from a position of leverage with a team like the Braves who's rolled snake eyes.  You have to figure even someone marginal like an Assad starts looking worthwhile if you're down 2-3 starters before the season starts.

[Bertz]

 

Really good read from Sharma on Brown/Wicks/Assad.  Headline is probably Brown adding a sinker.

[mk49]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

Headline is probably Brown adding a sinker.

That's good.  He started throwing change ups last year.  Did he give it up?  I think change up is a better choice for him.  If he's still trying to improve his change up, and adding sinker, he might be awesome.

[Stratos]

1 hour ago, mk49 said:

That's good.  He started throwing change ups last year.  Did he give it up?  I think change up is a better choice for him.  If he's still trying to improve his change up, and adding sinker, he might be awesome.

His fastball got pummeled last year so adding a fb with movement is hopeful.  Developing the changeup would be good too.

[mk49]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

His fastball got pummeled last year so adding a fb with movement is hopeful.  Developing the changeup would be good too.

Either way, it's a good thing for Ben Brown.  I still think he can be good.

[Geographyhater8888]

It’d be great if Brown improves his command and can become a viable replacement for Keller.

Edited February 19 by Geographyhater8888

[Gjfificifjdej]

9 hours ago, mk49 said:

Either way, it's a good thing for Ben Brown.  I still think he can be good.

Dude will flash moments of brilliance before turning back into a pumpkin, hope he puts it together 

[CubinNY]

12 hours ago, mk49 said:

That's good.  He started throwing change ups last year.  Did he give it up?  I think change up is a better choice for him.  If he's still trying to improve his change up, and adding sinker, he might be awesome.

In the article, he said he feels more comfortable with the change, and the sinker is brand new, never used in a game. It's almost impossible to be an MLB starter with a two-pitch arsenal, so that is a great development. 

Wicks worked on mechanical processes and adjusted his grip to achieve greater sink. But his real problem is the same as Assad, they are bad-bodied pitchers who lack conditioning to make it through a full season. If he can't stay healthy and in the rotation, he's going to be a relief pitcher. This is his last chance at starting, and he should be a trade candidate this season.

I don't know the rules of MLB, but I don't understand why the Cubs don't invest in offseason programs for these guys. And by that I mean don't give them a to-do list. Get them a team of nutritionists and biomechanists, and keep them in Arizona for at least part of the offseason to monitor and manage them.  

Same with Mo. There is no reason he should come to ST grossly overweight. 

[mul21]

1 hour ago, CubinNY said:

In the article, he said he feels more comfortable with the change, and the sinker is brand new, never used in a game. It's almost impossible to be an MLB starter with a two-pitch arsenal, so that is a great development. 

Wicks worked on mechanical processes and adjusted his grip to achieve greater sink. But his real problem is the same as Assad, they are bad-bodied pitchers who lack conditioning to make it through a full season. If he can't stay healthy and in the rotation, he's going to be a relief pitcher. This is his last chance at starting, and he should be a trade candidate this season.

I don't know the rules of MLB, but I don't understand why the Cubs don't invest in offseason programs for these guys. And by that I mean don't give them a to-do list. Get them a team of nutritionists and biomechanists, and keep them in Arizona for at least part of the offseason to monitor and manage them.  

Same with Mo. There is no reason he should come to ST grossly overweight. 

You act like we've never seen guys like David Wells and Bartolo Colon pitch 250 innings in a season.  Their lack of effectiveness has little to do with their body makeup and everything to do with their inability to throw good pitches consistently, and I'd argue Assad has mostly figured out how to do that.

[We Got The Whole 9]

The problem with Wicks is he was an extremely boring/safe pick from the jump. They'll cut bait this year.

 

 

[CubinNY]

42 minutes ago, mul21 said:

You act like we've never seen guys like David Wells and Bartolo Colon pitch 250 innings in a season.  Their lack of effectiveness has little to do with their body makeup and everything to do with their inability to throw good pitches consistently, and I'd argue Assad has mostly figured out how to do that.

Exceptions to rule doesn’t make a rule. That’s just dumb ass luck. 

[Rcal10]

16 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

The problem with Wicks is he was an extremely boring/safe pick from the jump. They'll cut bait this year.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with a MOR starting pitcher. Not sure he gets to that, but if he does, that is fine. They might trade him, but this isn’t make or break year in regards to just letting him go. He still has potential. 

[Stratos]

18 hours ago, Bertz said:

You kind of have to wonder if we get to the last week of March and the Cubs' depth is still looking strong if the team doesn't try and make a trade from a position of leverage with a team like the Braves who's rolled snake eyes.  You have to figure even someone marginal like an Assad starts looking worthwhile if you're down 2-3 starters before the season starts.

Might as well just wait closer to the trade deadline, leverage still high for the Cubs

[Bertz]

The Cubs have *really* valued game calling the last several years.  I wonder if that makes them more or less likely to jump on a trend like this.

I also wonder if at minimum there's a consideration of having the coaching staff call the game when Mo's behind the plate.  Feels like between this and ABS the floor for catcher defense is being raised considerably.

[Derwood]

I'm already tired of Spring Training

[chibears55]

Quick question cause I keep seeing Michael Cole and others bring up Cabrera 95 mph change up and im wondering why is that so special and what the difference between that and a 95 mph fastball ?

Wouldn't an effective changeup be about 8-10 miles under your fastball, which Cabrera was averaging around 97 last year

 

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, Rcal10 said:

There is nothing wrong with a MOR starting pitcher. Not sure he gets to that, but if he does, that is fine. They might trade him, but this isn’t make or break year in regards to just letting him go. He still has potential. 

Sure but hes not that. His fastball sucks and makes his secondaries play down. It was a lame pick and thats what often happens with lame picks. Hes on the bubble for sure. Totally an afterthought at this point.

[We Got The Whole 9]

44 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Quick question cause I keep seeing Michael Cole and others bring up Cabrera 95 mph change up and im wondering why is that so special and what the difference between that and a 95 mph fastball ?

Wouldn't an effective changeup be about 8-10 miles under your fastball, which Cabrera was averaging around 97 last year

 

...

 

Have you seen how it moves?

[Bertz]

41 minutes ago, chibears55 said:

Quick question cause I keep seeing Michael Cole and others bring up Cabrera 95 mph change up and im wondering why is that so special and what the difference between that and a 95 mph fastball ?

Wouldn't an effective changeup be about 8-10 miles under your fastball, which Cabrera was averaging around 97 last year

 

A lot of it is the novelty.  Fangraphs says he had the 3rd hardest changeup in the league last year, and the two guys in front of him threw their's 0.1% of the time, meaning they were probably mislabeled fastballs.  Pete Fairbanks is the only guy who threw his changeup a meaningful amount (roughly 5%) with a changeup as hard as Cabrera.  Among starters Jacob Misiorowski was the only guy within even 2 MPH of him.

Setting aside the novelty, the key takeaway from the explosion of pitch models the last five years is you want pitches that are weird.  The best pitches have outlier velocity, outlier movement, or come in at a weird ass angle.

[Radar3454]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

The Cubs have *really* valued game calling the last several years.  I wonder if that makes them more or less likely to jump on a trend like this.

I also wonder if at minimum there's a consideration of having the coaching staff call the game when Mo's behind the plate.  Feels like between this and ABS the floor for catcher defense is being raised considerably.

Can the Pitcher shake off the coach? I can't imagine elite pitchers or catchers liking this. Doesn't Boyd call his own?

[Bertz]

8 minutes ago, Radar3454 said:

Can the Pitcher shake off the coach? I can't imagine elite pitchers or catchers liking this. Doesn't Boyd call his own?

I believe I saw it say something like the "initial call" comes from the bench.  I assume with the pitch clock the back-and-forth had to be purely between the catcher and pitcher.  But at the same time I'd assume pitchers have much less latitude to shake off coaches as opposed to catchers.  A 35 year old All Star like Boyd might be allowed to but I doubt any 1st/2nd year guy would have much choice.

[chibears55]

39 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

...

 

Have you seen how it moves?

Is that the difference is that it comes in looking like a fastball but has a big drop/break at the end

[mk49]

1 hour ago, chibears55 said:

Quick question cause I keep seeing Michael Cole and others bring up Cabrera 95 mph change up and im wondering why is that so special and what the difference between that and a 95 mph fastball ?

Wouldn't an effective changeup be about 8-10 miles under your fastball, which Cabrera was averaging around 97 last year

 

His change up is almost as fast, but it drops and move towards the arm side like a regular change up.  I think his curveball acts like what you described, a quite bit slower than his fastball/sinker/change up.

[Stratos]

Will be interesting to see how the ABS system will be used by players since teams only get 2 challenges per game and pitcher/catcher or batter can use them, but not on the direction of the dugout.

I'd think they'd save them for high leverage situations like with men on base.

Will players fight over them? Will some more emotional/ competitive players use them more?  Will that make other players or the manager PO'd?