Soto free agency thread

[JD94]

On 10/20/2024 at 7:38 PM, Irrelevant Dude said:

But that is absolutely a knock against the front office.  There is no excuse for a large market team like the Cubs with their resources and money available to spend under the luxury tax to not be a serious contender for Soto.  Now, if they make a monster offer and still get outbid by the Yankees, what can you do?  But if the Cubs aren't even in the picture, that is a problem.

This is where I’m at. I get abnormally mad reading “but the Cubs won’t be in on him, so it doesn’t matter.” Like why is that okay? Why do we accept that and move along with our day? Sahadav said we should be top 5 in payroll yearly and I agree obviously. There’s no excuse to not flex our horsefeathers muscles for a generational, once in a lifetime type of player. Especially considering we are on the cusp and need a star player. I just don’t get it. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

5 minutes ago, JD94 said:

This is where I’m at. I get abnormally mad reading “but the Cubs won’t be in on him, so it doesn’t matter.” Like why is that okay? Why do we accept that and move along with our day? Sahadav said we should be top 5 in payroll yearly and I agree obviously. There’s no excuse to not flex our horsefeathers muscles for a generational, once in a lifetime type of player. Especially considering we are on the cusp and need a star player. I just don’t get it. 

It's not ok, there's just not a damn thing any of us can do about it, so getting hung up on it is pointless. We move along and discuss probable scenarios.

[CubinNY]

7 minutes ago, JD94 said:

This is where I’m at. I get abnormally mad reading “but the Cubs won’t be in on him, so it doesn’t matter.” Like why is that okay? Why do we accept that and move along with our day? Sahadav said we should be top 5 in payroll yearly and I agree obviously. There’s no excuse to not flex our horsefeathers muscles for a generational, once in a lifetime type of player. Especially considering we are on the cusp and need a star player. I just don’t get it. 

Who around here is ok with it? I think most people read and hear what the Cubs are likely to do and accept reality. 

They never change. 

[squally1313]

25 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Who around here is ok with it? I think most people read and hear what the Cubs are likely to do and accept reality. 

They never change. 

Agreed on this point, and also, they can flex their muscles all they want as a 'top 5' payroll team, but they're going up against pretty much the undisputed top 2. If Juan Soto signs anywhere besides NYC/LA, then I'll start to question just how big of a big market team Tom wants us to be. But we aren't the Dodgers/Yankees.

[Rcal10]

18 hours ago, squally1313 said:

Agreed on this point, and also, they can flex their muscles all they want as a 'top 5' payroll team, but they're going up against pretty much the undisputed top 2. If Juan Soto signs anywhere besides NYC/LA, then I'll start to question just how big of a big market team Tom wants us to be. But we aren't the Dodgers/Yankees.

But why? Why can’t the Cubs just give him the most money and most years? Why is it a foregone conclusion that if the NY teams and the Dodgers want a guy the Cubs can’t outbid them? I know they won’t. But I don’t know why they get a pass if one of those other 3 teams gets him. I give them a pass on Ohtani. He wasn’t leaving LA. I don’t think Soto is locked in to any one city.

[CubinNY]

21 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

But why? Why can’t the Cubs just give him the most money and most years? Why is it a foregone conclusion that if the NY teams and the Dodgers want a guy the Cubs can’t outbid them? I know they won’t. But I don’t know why they get a pass if one of those other 3 teams gets him. I give them a pass on Ohtani. He wasn’t leaving LA. I don’t think Soto is locked in to any one city.

My friend, there is no reason why from the standpoint of financial wherewithal. Neither ownership nor baseball operations desire to do so. 

[Cuzi]

There's no reason the Cubs can't compete with the Dodgers and Yankees for Soto. In a vacuum those teams would blow the Cubs away, but those teams, both, currently have a ton of money wrapped up into 3 players. Soto would put either team into tax purgatory, making every dollar that much more expensive.

The Mets, on the other hand...

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Cuzi said:

There's no reason the Cubs can't compete with the Dodgers and Yankees for Soto. In a vacuum those teams would blow the Cubs away, but those teams, both, currently have a ton of money wrapped up into 3 players. Soto would put either team into tax purgatory, making every dollar that much more expensive.

The Mets, on the other hand...

You are 100% correct on the Mets. But they are losing 2 middle of the line up bats and 3 starting pitchers along with that salary they have coming off the books. So they have a few more places to add players with that money. The Cubs are basically losing Hendricks. And they have $50M (give or take) to replace him and then add. And if Bellinger opts out that number goes to $75M (give or take), but they have to replace Bellinger.
And frankly, they actually have whatever they want to have if they ever decide to play like a major market team plays. If they want Soto they can get him. They just have to change the FO philosophy on team building. And that won’t happen. 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

10 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

You are 100% correct on the Mets. But they are losing 2 middle of the line up bats and 3 starting pitchers along with that salary they have coming off the books. So they have a few more places to add players with that money. The Cubs are basically losing Hendricks. And they have $50M (give or take) to replace him and then add. And if Bellinger opts out that number goes to $75M (give or take), but they have to replace Bellinger.
And frankly, they actually have whatever they want to have if they ever decide to play like a major market team plays. If they want Soto they can get him. They just have to change the FO philosophy on team building. And that won’t happen. 

The Mets have about 65 million in dead money(Verlander, Scherzer, McCann) coming off the books too.  I'm not sure if they'll go to their peak spending, but they won't be out on Soto simply by being spread too thin to fill in all needs.

[CubinNY]

Compare the way Jed and the Ricketts talk to the Mets

David Sterns: "We've got financial flexibility. It means that pretty much the entirety of the player universe I potentially accessible to us... I envision us taking advantage of that opportunity."

[squally1313]

37 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Compare the way Jed and the Ricketts talk to the Mets

David Sterns: "We've got financial flexibility. It means that pretty much the entirety of the player universe I potentially accessible to us... I envision us taking advantage of that opportunity."

Did the Cubs publicly rule out specific players?

[CubinNY]

16 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

Did the Cubs publicly rule out specific players?

lol, you are really something. 

[squally1313]

23 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

lol, you are really something. 

no you're right, sorry. someone said something somewhere, and therefore we should use the quote to criticize jed hoyer

[Tryptamine]

12 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

no you're right, sorry. someone said something somewhere, and therefore we should use the quote to criticize jed hoyer

Do we really need a quote to criticize Jed?

[Rcal10]

4 hours ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

The Mets have about 65 million in dead money(Verlander, Scherzer, McCann) coming off the books too.  I'm not sure if they'll go to their peak spending, but they won't be out on Soto simply by being spread too thin to fill in all needs.

I get that. I know they will be in on him. I also know they have a lot of dead money coming off. But they also have some good players to replace. And they were substantially over last year. Will they do it again? Probably. My point was not so much the Mets won’t be in on Soto, it was actually that there is no reason the Cubs shouldn’t be. They can spend as much on Soto as the Mets can. I also am pretty sure the Xubs won’t be in on Soto. Just saying it shouldn’t be a forefone conclusion that if the Mets wanted him the Cubs can’t do anything about it. They can. They can pay him more… 

[Stratos]

On 10/22/2024 at 4:46 PM, JD94 said:

This is where I’m at. I get abnormally mad reading “but the Cubs won’t be in on him, so it doesn’t matter.” Like why is that okay? Why do we accept that and move along with our day? Sahadav said we should be top 5 in payroll yearly and I agree obviously. There’s no excuse to not flex our horsefeathers muscles for a generational, once in a lifetime type of player. Especially considering we are on the cusp and need a star player. I just don’t get it. 

I don't think they're automatically out on big star FA's or we have zero chance.  With Judge and Ohtani they probably didn't have a chance but were at least in on Ohtani.  With Harper and Machado it could have been an issue with their personalities or their positions didn't fit on the team at the time.  With Yamamoto he got 12/325, which is a pretty crazy deal for a pitcher who had never pitched in the MLB, so they thought Imanaga was a better deal.  They were probably in on Turner and the other top SS and thought the Swanson deal was a better one.

I think if its the right guy at the right position, right age and the contract isn't stupid they'll pull the trigger.  Things need to fall into place for a mega deal.   I think they'll be in on Soto especially if Bellinger opts out.  I think position is a big thing.  With all the OF they have in the majors and minors they can still use the upgrade obviously but can afford to not act desperately.  Like everyone I wish we had an owner that was willing to go well over the tax line and spend some stupid money once in a while but we don't.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Stratos

[LBiittner]

43 minutes ago, Stratos said:

I don't think they're automatically out on big star FA's or we have zero chance.  With Judge and Ohtani they probably didn't have a chance but were at least in on Ohtani.  With Harper and Machado it could have been an issue with their personalities or their positions didn't fit on the team at the time.  With Yamamoto he got 12/325, which is a pretty crazy deal for a pitcher who had never pitched in the MLB, so they thought Imanaga was a better deal.  They were probably in on Turner and the other top SS and thought the Swanson deal was a better one.

I think if its the right guy at the right position, right age and the contract isn't stupid they'll pull the trigger.  Things need to fall into place for a mega deal.   I think they'll be in on Soto especially if Bellinger opts out.  I think position is a big thing.  With all the OF they have in the majors and minors they can still use the upgrade obviously but can afford to not act desperately.  Like everyone I wish we had an owner that was willing to go well over the tax line and spend some stupid money once in a while but we don't.

How were we ever in on turner and ohtani if our owner isn't willing to spend stupid money?

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Stratos said:

I don't think they're automatically out on big star FA's or we have zero chance.  With Judge and Ohtani they probably didn't have a chance but were at least in on Ohtani.  With Harper and Machado it could have been an issue with their personalities or their positions didn't fit on the team at the time.  With Yamamoto he got 12/325, which is a pretty crazy deal for a pitcher who had never pitched in the MLB, so they thought Imanaga was a better deal.  They were probably in on Turner and the other top SS and thought the Swanson deal was a better one.

I think if its the right guy at the right position, right age and the contract isn't stupid they'll pull the trigger.  Things need to fall into place for a mega deal.   I think they'll be in on Soto especially if Bellinger opts out.  I think position is a big thing.  With all the OF they have in the majors and minors they can still use the upgrade obviously but can afford to not act desperately.  Like everyone I wish we had an owner that was willing to go well over the tax line and spend some stupid money once in a while but we don't.

To be fair, they had no chance with Ohtani. He wasn’t going anywhere. Judge was pretty set on NY as well. As for Turner, IMO, he doesn’t fit the criteria of a guy you break the bank on and change your entire FO philosophy to acquire. Besides that there were rumors even before free agency started that he wanted to be in Philly. He is a solid ballplayer but far from a generational talent. Soto is the last chance at a generational talent at such a young age. If there is ever a time to throw “stupid money” at a player now is the time. 

[CubinNY]

mental masturbation is bad for your health.

[Irrelevant Dude]

Let's say there is a hypothetical fantasy world where the Cubs are in on Soto, and Jed is able to come up with the best offer, but the Yankees are in the ballpark.

If you are Soto, where do you want to spend the next 10-15 years?  Do you take the money to play for the Cubs, or do you take a little less to stay with the Yankees, considering: 

A) Which team is going to be willing to consistently surround you with players to give the best chance of multiple World Series rings? (Yankees)

B) His offensive numbers will almost certainly be better at Yankee Stadium than Wrigley.  He is going to be a Hall of Famer regardless, but how important are those statistics to him?  Especially if there are opt outs involved, is he better off padding his power numbers with the short right field porch in New York?

C) He is already familiar with the Yankees.

 

It's difficult to speculate on any individual player's decision making process, but if it's me I'm not going to the Cubs unless they absolutely blow the Yankees offer out of the water (which won't happen).

Obviously this whole hypothetical scenario is unrealistic to begin with, but even in the best case scenario where the Cubs are given the green light from Tom and aggressively pursue Soto, the possibilities of him actually coming here are grim.

[JHBulls]

If Soto wants to win titles and play in the best team that the owners are willing to buy at all times, he won’t care if the Cubs blow the Yankees offer out of the water. Yankees are going to be paying him hundreds of millions of dollars regardless. Big time signings every 12 months vs “we have to penny pinch this year, and probably for the next 3 years…… just because we signed you!”. 

 

[Transmogrified Tiger]

26 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Let's say there is a hypothetical fantasy world where the Cubs are in on Soto, and Jed is able to come up with the best offer, but the Yankees are in the ballpark.

If you are Soto, where do you want to spend the next 10-15 years?  Do you take the money to play for the Cubs, or do you take a little less to stay with the Yankees, considering: 

A) Which team is going to be willing to consistently surround you with players to give the best chance of multiple World Series rings? (Yankees)

B) His offensive numbers will almost certainly be better at Yankee Stadium than Wrigley.  He is going to be a Hall of Famer regardless, but how important are those statistics to him?  Especially if there are opt outs involved, is he better off padding his power numbers with the short right field porch in New York?

C) He is already familiar with the Yankees.

 

It's difficult to speculate on any individual player's decision making process, but if it's me I'm not going to the Cubs unless they absolutely blow the Yankees offer out of the water (which won't happen).

Obviously this whole hypothetical scenario is unrealistic to begin with, but even in the best case scenario where the Cubs are given the green light from Tom and aggressively pursue Soto, the possibilities of him actually coming here are grim.

He's also a Dominican player who has gotten a taste of being a hero in the city with a big concentration of his countrymen, so you can probably say similar things about 'all else being equal' for both NY teams.  Under both Theo and Jed the Cubs have done a very good job of selling Chicago, but similar to the Ohtani situation I suspect there's a team(two in this case) with deeper pockets with a built in advantage.

[Stratos]

Being in the city you like is nice and all, but how much of your salary would you give for that?  Would you give up 5-10 million dollars to live in one nice city in a big market over another nice city in a big market?  He's from the DR, every American city is probably heaven to him.  Most players take the money.  Kris Bryant is playing for the Rockies and Baez is in Detroit lol.  Rizzo didn't accept an extension, he wanted to get paid.  They all did.  If we beat the Yankees offer and he's very likely coming here.  He probably grew up dirt poor, he can help his family a lot with that money.  Mom, dad, children, grandparents, siblings, cousins etc.

If Soto does well in the WS and the Yanks win the ring I'm a lot more worried it will make Yanks fans think he's now a "Yankees legend" like Judge and pressure the Yanks FO to up their offer than I am Soto getting a taste of victory and heroism and wanting to stay more as a result.

Edited October 27, 2024 by Stratos

[Donzo]

I'm not gonna bash the Cubs for not signing him to $600M+ contract... I sure wouldn't do it if it was my money.

Going by Bowden's projections. I'd sign a top RP, conolidate young SPs and prospects and trade for SP and sign a SP.

For offense, If Bellinger doesn't opt out, Get a catcher (trade or FA signing). And, go with in-house farm system options for other improvements. Then look for trade oprotunities in season... If he does opt out and isn't resigned, I'm not quite sure. Something like adding Pederson, IDK yet.

[CubinNY]

Dodgers interested in Soto. I hope they get him. 

Edited October 28, 2024 by CubinNY