A's (Estes) vs Cubs (Imanaga): 9/16/24, 6:40pm

[Brock Beauchamp]

[Bertz]

Pretty solid set of pitching matchups both here in the A's series and during the upcoming Nats series.  We do draw Gore, but he's the only pitcher this week worth worrying about.  Although on the flip side not sure anyone except Patrick Corbin is outright bad.

Would be a nice week to call up Owen Caissie....

[We Got The Whole 9]

Really gotta navigate the Rooker/Butler duo wth great caution. Although

 

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by We Got The Whole 9

[gflore34]

48 minutes ago, Bertz said:

Pretty solid set of pitching matchups both here in the A's series and during the upcoming Nats series.  We do draw Gore, but he's the only pitcher this week worth worrying about.  Although on the flip side not sure anyone except Patrick Corbin is outright bad.

Would be a nice week to call up Owen Caissie....

Why? A reading of the articles here has him, like all of the other prospects, light years from the big leagues, maybe 2026 if we're lucky.  I understand error-ing on the side of caution but, holy horsefeathers reading the pieces about Cubs' prospects is like looking up what ails you on the web.

Edited September 16, 2024 by gflore34

[Bertz]

11 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

Why? A reading of the articles here has him, like all of the other prospects, light years from the big leagues, maybe 2026 if we're lucky.  I understand error-ing on the side of caution but, holy horsefeathers reading the pieces about Cubs' prospects is like looking up what ails you have on the web.

Which articles?  Because the Cubs top 6 prospects are all at AAA so I'm not sure where you're getting any of this.

[gflore34]

There's a fairly recent one here about Cassie' adjustments to his approach, another one, not long ago, painting a not so rosy picture of Shaw' arrival and others.  The authors of the articles know more about baseball than I do, and, baseball is hard, and they're probably correct, just overall, not encouraging.

Edited September 16, 2024 by gflore34

[Bertz]

6 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

There's a fairly recent one here about Cassie' adjustments to his approach, another one, not long ago, painting a not so rosy picture of Shaw' arrival and others.

I guess without casting too many aspersions about the people keeping the lights on here, some people have a tendency to be pretty dramatic.  There is a growing gap between AAA and MLB, but that simply means that guys need to spend between a half and a full season there now.  It's a big change from a few years ago where if you sufficiently conquered AA you might only spend a month at AAA and be no worse for wear.

Owen Caissie has just about a full season at Iowa under his belt, Ballesteros is at about half a season, and the cohort of Shaw/Alcantara/Triantos have about a quarter of a season.  There's not really any of those guys who, barring major struggles or injuries they have not yet had yet, you'd reasonably put their ETA much further out than next season's ASB.  Caissie could come up now, maybe not permanently but certainly to play out the string while the standings are what they are.

[Jason Ross]

19 minutes ago, gflore34 said:

There's a fairly recent one here about Cassie' adjustments to his approach, another one, not long ago, painting a not so rosy picture of Shaw' arrival and others.  The authors of the articles know more about baseball than I do, and, baseball is hard, and they're probably correct, just overall, not encouraging.

I wrote one of those articles, and it feels like you're taking the wrong things away from it. There isn't a bigger Owen Caissie champion on the planet than me...I've been yelling off rooftops about him since the 2020 draft (before he was selected by San Diego and well before he was a Cub prospect). Caissie is a really good prospect and I think has been somewhat underrated by many. 

Caissie has a .380 wOBA since MiLB ASB. He's pulling the ball more. He's hitting in the air more. He's hitting for more power. Contact rates aren't great, but probably expected with a shift of approach and will probably trend up as he gets more comfortable bridging the old and the new. He's probably the most exciting power bat the Cubs have had in their system in the last 7-8 years. 

We should probably expect him to struggle on his initial call up because everyone is struggling right now. The best prospects on the planet have sucked for a while upon callups. But that's not really being negative so much as being realistic. Given time and patience, we've seen PCA go from unbearable to watch at the plate to being legitimately good. Caissie will likely need that himself. But might as well bring him up now and let him start processing. 

[CubinNY]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

But might as well bring him up now and let him start processing. 

Yes and yes and yes. Give him stuff to do over the winter and to think about even if it's just watching how MLB guys establish a routine. He should have been up on Sept. 1, DHing and getting reps in RF. 

[thawv]

2 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I wrote one of those articles, and it feels like you're taking the wrong things away from it. There isn't a bigger Owen Caissie champion on the planet than me...I've been yelling off rooftops about him since the 2020 draft (before he was selected by San Diego and well before he was a Cub prospect). Caissie is a really good prospect and I think has been somewhat underrated by many. 

Caissie has a .380 wOBA since MiLB ASB. He's pulling the ball more. He's hitting in the air more. He's hitting for more power. Contact rates aren't great, but probably expected with a shift of approach and will probably trend up as he gets more comfortable bridging the old and the new. He's probably the most exciting power bat the Cubs have had in their system in the last 7-8 years. 

We should probably expect him to struggle on his initial call up because everyone is struggling right now. The best prospects on the planet have sucked for a while upon callups. But that's not really being negative so much as being realistic. Given time and patience, we've seen PCA go from unbearable to watch at the plate to being legitimately good. Caissie will likely need that himself. But might as well bring him up now and let him start processing. 

How does Caissie have any path to every day playing time without benching a guy(s)?  If he's not going to play every day, why not just let him keep hitting in AAA?   Maybe after the 22nd, they give him a taste?  But at who's expense? 

[Jason Ross]

9 minutes ago, thawv said:

How does Caissie have any path to every day playing time without benching a guy(s)?  If he's not going to play every day, why not just let him keep hitting in AAA?   Maybe after the 22nd, they give him a taste?  But at who's expense? 

I mean, we're in the last two weeks. There's like 4 series left. Every day PA's right now probably don't exist, but they're not important. His career trajectory isn't going to be any different because he got 20 more PA's. 

The Cubs aren't going to the playoffs. You can sit Happ and Bellinger and Busch a few games. They've played a full season...we know what they are. Give Caissie a taste of the MLB. Let him get used to the MLB life. Let him see what 20 PA's of MLB pitching looks like. There's literally zero harm right now.

And if he doesn't get it? There's no harm there either. Much like the above, there's no reason to believe his career trajectory is going to change because of it. But it's probably beneficial for him to get a taste.

[Tim]

1 minute ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I mean, we're in the last two weeks. There's like 4 series left. Every day PA's right now probably don't exist, but they're not important. His career trajectory isn't going to be any different because he got 20 more PA's. 

The Cubs aren't going to the playoffs. You can sit Happ and Bellinger and Busch a few games. They've played a full season...we know what they are. Give Caissie a taste of the MLB. Let him get used to the MLB life. Let him see what 20 PA's of MLB pitching looks like. There's literally zero harm right now.

And if he doesn't get it? There's no harm there either. Much like the above, there's no reason to believe his career trajectory is going to change because of it. But it's probably beneficial for him to get a taste.

I honestly don't think it matters a ton either way. Looking at PCA's experience last year as an example, those 17 PA (or whatever it was) didn't cause him to come out on fire this year, but it obviously didn't hurt him to go 0-fer, either. 

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, Tim said:

I honestly don't think it matters a ton either way. Looking at PCA's experience last year as an example, those 17 PA (or whatever it was) didn't cause him to come out on fire this year, but it obviously didn't hurt him to go 0-fer, either. 

I'm a fan of letting someone, even for two weeks, just see the MLB lifestyle. You meet your future teammates in a non-pressure situation. You see what MLB pitching is like. I doubt it changes much, and for his career, will almost assuredly be meaningless, but I think there's probably benefit to it. Especially someone like Caissie who is raking and has been for 190 PA's now.

Ultimately, like I said, I don't think it changes what Owen Caissie is or isn't as a professional, so however the Cubs handle it is whatever. 

[thawv]

16 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I mean, we're in the last two weeks. There's like 4 series left. Every day PA's right now probably don't exist, but they're not important. His career trajectory isn't going to be any different because he got 20 more PA's. 

The Cubs aren't going to the playoffs. You can sit Happ and Bellinger and Busch a few games. They've played a full season...we know what they are. Give Caissie a taste of the MLB. Let him get used to the MLB life. Let him see what 20 PA's of MLB pitching looks like. There's literally zero harm right now.

And if he doesn't get it? There's no harm there either. Much like the above, there's no reason to believe his career trajectory is going to change because of it. But it's probably beneficial for him to get a taste.

I agree with all of this.  I've just always felt like the Cubs wouldn't do something like that. 

[UMFan83]

Last time we'll ever face the Oakland A's, even if its in Chicago.  

Also interesting that we'll be the first team to play the A's in Sacramento, as we are scheduled for their home opener on March 31st.

Edited September 16, 2024 by UMFan83

[Tim]

13 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I'm a fan of letting someone, even for two weeks, just see the MLB lifestyle. You meet your future teammates in a non-pressure situation. You see what MLB pitching is like. I doubt it changes much, and for his career, will almost assuredly be meaningless, but I think there's probably benefit to it. Especially someone like Caissie who is raking and has been for 190 PA's now.

Ultimately, like I said, I don't think it changes what Owen Caissie is or isn't as a professional, so however the Cubs handle it is whatever. 

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound at all critical. I'm primarily agreeing with you. I know big leaguers want to play every day, but rotating Caissie through LF, RF, 1B & DH can get him plenty of PA without impacting any one veteran very much. I don't think it makes a material difference in Caissie's career, but it doesn't impact the vets, either.

It's also a nice reward for a player who has put in a long year of work. It shows the other guys that their time will come, too. With the new restrictions, though, part of it also depends on whether they view Mastro as a guy they want to keep around. He hasn't performed, but I think he's been a "good soldier" and gone up and down all year without complaint. I know people here won't care about that too much, but it could have an impact on other guys in the clubhouse if they feel he's being wronged.

[CubinNY]

20 minutes ago, Tim said:

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound at all critical. I'm primarily agreeing with you. I know big leaguers want to play every day, but rotating Caissie through LF, RF, 1B & DH can get him plenty of PA without impacting any one veteran very much. I don't think it makes a material difference in Caissie's career, but it doesn't impact the vets, either.

It's also a nice reward for a player who has put in a long year of work. It shows the other guys that their time will come, too. With the new restrictions, though, part of it also depends on whether they view Mastro as a guy they want to keep around. He hasn't performed, but I think he's been a "good soldier" and gone up and down all year without complaint. I know people here won't care about that too much, but it could have an impact on other guys in the clubhouse if they feel he's being wronged.

I agree. Wisdom is the guy to DFA. Its highly doubtful he gets tendered a contract. 

[Jason Ross]

30 minutes ago, Tim said:

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound at all critical. I'm primarily agreeing with you. I know big leaguers want to play every day, but rotating Caissie through LF, RF, 1B & DH can get him plenty of PA without impacting any one veteran very much. I don't think it makes a material difference in Caissie's career, but it doesn't impact the vets, either.

It's also a nice reward for a player who has put in a long year of work. It shows the other guys that their time will come, too. With the new restrictions, though, part of it also depends on whether they view Mastro as a guy they want to keep around. He hasn't performed, but I think he's been a "good soldier" and gone up and down all year without complaint. I know people here won't care about that too much, but it could have an impact on other guys in the clubhouse if they feel he's being wronged.

Oh I know! I just wanted to clarify. 

[Jason Ross]

37 minutes ago, thawv said:

I agree with all of this.  I've just always felt like the Cubs wouldn't do something like that. 

They have done it a lot at the MiLB level with these guys. Did it with PCA last year in a playoff run. 

Calling up Caissie, giving him 4-6 starts? Feels like something they'd do. 

[thawv]

11 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

They have done it a lot at the MiLB level with these guys. Did it with PCA last year in a playoff run. 

Calling up Caissie, giving him 4-6 starts? Feels like something they'd do. 

The beef I had last season was PCA and Canario didn't play.  I'd like to see Caissie added to the 40, promoted, and not miss a game.   I think they abandoned the first base experiment with him, but he can rotate every game in a corner OF spot and DH for the remainder of the season.   There's really nothing negative about doing what you said about meeting players and getting the whole experience.  

[Tryptamine]

A couple things

PCA is at 2.6 fWAR in 361 PAs now, which puts him at 4.3 fWAR per 600 PA  pace, all while sporting a 93 wRC+. 

Cody Bellinger is up to a 112 wRC+ and 2.2 fWAR. While I still think it's 50/50 at best that he opts out, if he continues his hot streak for a couple more weeks it would almost assure it.

[We Got The Whole 9]

It's slightly annoying that Chourio is having a better 2nd half surge. Looking like one of the best early extensions handed out with his expected development. 

 

Still PCA's progress is so fun to dream on.

[Jason Ross]

51 minutes ago, thawv said:

The beef I had last season was PCA and Canario didn't play.  I'd like to see Caissie added to the 40, promoted, and not miss a game.   I think they abandoned the first base experiment with him, but he can rotate every game in a corner OF spot and DH for the remainder of the season.   There's really nothing negative about doing what you said about meeting players and getting the whole experience.  

I'm unsure of what 1b experiment you think Owen Caissie has ever had; he's logged zero innings at 1b in his MiLB career He's played more CF than he has 1b..People have suggested down the road he might be a 1b, but he's not a 1b yet. With that said, Cody Bellinger is more than capable of playing 1b so sitting Busch just means Bellinger slides to 1b and Caissie takes RF. 

I don't think sitting on the bench even for a few weeks at the end of the year matters though. PCA isn't worse off for it, neither is Canario. 20 or so PA's don't make differences. So even if Caissie started 4 times, the experience would likely be no better or worse for him long term.

[JunkyardWalrus]

If Belli is at first, I'd rather move Busch to 2b, slide Nico into a toasty Super Sub role, but of course that isn't going to happen. 

Does anyone know if Belli opts in if he can be traded?

[Andy]

1 minute ago, JunkyardWalrus said:

If Belli is at first, I'd rather move Busch to 2b, slide Nico into a toasty Super Sub role, but of course that isn't going to happen. 

Does anyone know if Belli opts in if he can be traded?

He has no no-trade provision. If he opts in he can be traded and the opt-in for 2026 goes with him to wherever he'd end up.