Cubs Reportedly In Talks (Maybe) With Mariners To Trade Nico Hoerner

[Cuzi]

7 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

It's Morsi, so TIFWIW. But based on the way that tweet framed his interview, it doesn't sound like a rebuild. Call it whatever you want, but it sounded like the Cubs were going to try to either get financial flexibility to spend next offseason and/or get prospects which would help the roster (presumably they'd be younger prospects but that doesn't meant they can't be traded later or used to restock the system on other trades). How effective you believe Hoyer is at making that is also a personal opinion. But it sounds very much like Hoyer's seat ain't that hot if he's willing to trade those players. And considering his deal is up in 2025, he still has to put forth a fairly competitive team if he hopes to have a contract in 2026.

There's really no "personal opinion" when it comes to Hoyer's ability to make those decisions. What has he accomplished since taking over? He's built a team on a payroll that dwarves any other team in the division that is in last place and we are sitting here discussing selling 2 of his more recent extension contracts that he envisioned was part of the solution. It's not a personal opinion to suggest that Hoyer sucks at his job at this point.

Edited July 1, 2024 by Cuzi

[Jason Ross]

Just now, Cuzi said:

There's really no "personal opinion" when it comes to Hoyer's ability to make those decisions. What has he accomplished since taking over? He's built a team on a payroll that dwarves any other team in the division, in last place, and sitting here discussing selling 2 of his more recent extension contracts that he envisioned was part of the solution. It's not a personal opinion to suggest that Hoyer sucks at his job at this point.

That's not the point of that post, Cuzi. I am well aware of how you feel about Jed. I'm not super-team-Jed either at this stage. Only explaining, even if the Cubs trade players like Happ or Taillon at the deadline, it wouldn't be in the idea of a rebuild based on how that tweet interpreted Morosi. It wasn't a discussion about Hoyer's ability to perform that move, it was an explanation of what the move would be akin to. 

If the Cubs were doing a 2021 tear down, I fully expect Hoyer would have to be fired before the deadline. That he hasn't been should signal that whatever the Cubs are doing, it will not be a tear down, rebuild. If they trade players it will be to use whatever they get (financial flexibility, prospects, whatever) to attempt to put a competitive team on the field next year.

[CubinNY]

20 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

It's Morsi, so TIFWIW. But based on the way that tweet framed his interview, it doesn't sound like a rebuild. Call it whatever you want, but it sounded like the Cubs were going to try to either get financial flexibility to spend next offseason and/or get prospects which would help the roster (presumably they'd be younger prospects but that doesn't meant they can't be traded later or used to restock the system on other trades). How effective you believe Hoyer is at making that is also a personal opinion. But it sounds very much like Hoyer's seat ain't that hot if he's willing to trade those players. And considering his deal is up in 2025, he still has to put forth a fairly competitive team if he hopes to have a contract in 2026.

Charlie Brown. 
 

What’s the point of financial flexibility if they aren’t going to get top shelf talent? 

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Charlie Brown. 
 

What’s the point of financial flexibility if they aren’t going to get top shelf talent? 

The hope is that Jed Hoyer has had an ability to reflect on his roster building, understand that the Cubs are truly lacking the best-of-the-best types of talents and addresses that a bit more significantly this offseason. Juan Soto is a name the Cubs should entirely go get, for example. They should be willing to swing a fairly large trade as well. 

I don't feel confident that Hoyer's introspective like that. But crazier things have happened.

[LBiittner]

Re-build

Re-tool

Now it's a Re-fresh.

It stinks like fish 

 

 

[Illiterate Scholar]

The Dodgers' non-first base infield has had a lot of injuries and struggles, wonder if they'd be interested in Nico as a near term SS, though it looks like Rojas has been good for them. They do have young catching. 

[Cuzi]

13 minutes ago, Illiterate Scholar said:

The Dodgers' non-first base infield has had a lot of injuries and struggles, wonder if they'd be interested in Nico as a near term SS, though it looks like Rojas has been good for them. They do have young catching. 

If you are targeting a catcher in a Hoerner trade, I would rather have Ford than any of the catchers the Dodgers have, not including Will Smith obviously.

[chibears55]

If they can trade any position players on this current roster they should do it. 

They're not winning any championship this season and unless they plan on and actually adding any significant FA in the offseason to improve both the offense and bullpen, theyre not winning  next season either.

Just add any assets possible this deadline and offseason with guys under contract Happ, Hoerner, Bellinger,  Suzuki,  Swanson ( hard to do unless they eat $$) and go into 2025 with the focus on getting guys like Caissie,  Shaw, Ballesteros,  and whomever else ready for 2026.

2025 offseason, put the focus into the best FA needed to fill out the roster.

[Chicago Al]

6 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

The hope is that Jed Hoyer has had an ability to reflect on his roster building, understand that the Cubs are truly lacking the best-of-the-best types of talents and addresses that a bit more significantly this offseason. Juan Soto is a name the Cubs should entirely go get, for example. They should be willing to swing a fairly large trade as well. 

I don't feel confident that Hoyer's introspective like that. But crazier things have happened.

What kind of contract will Soto demand at this point if he’s continuing to do this well? 450-500 mil? Surely at least 10 years if not more. Soto wants to win, unless he’s chasing a paycheck the Cubs have to add more talent to entice him to come to Chicago. 

[JD94]

8 hours ago, Chicago Al said:

What kind of contract will Soto demand at this point if he’s continuing to do this well? 450-500 mil? Surely at least 10 years if not more. Soto wants to win, unless he’s chasing a paycheck the Cubs have to add more talent to entice him to come to Chicago. 

I would think somewhere between 450-500 would get you Soto. In a perfect world, we trade off some expiring contracts, gather a few prospects, cut some money on the books for next year, and give Soto what he wants. Get some guys up here to finish the season like Caissie and Shaw and let’s see what they have. I’d target some young guys in a trade and try to lock them up. See if you can buy low on a Bichette type maybe. Somebody smarter than me might say no thanks on Bichette but he’s coming off 3 straight 4+ fWAR seasons. Obviously I’d love to trade for and extend Vladdy. They have to find a way to get some catching help into the org, and especially at the big league level. 
 

I mean there’s ways to fix it. This isn’t exact and I’d be shocked if we were the winning bidder of the Soto auction and losing out on him makes it considerably harder, but something has to be done. Use the prospect capital we’ve stocked up on to help get some proven bats in here. Spend money like you’re the Chicago Cubs. 
 

[Tryptamine]

9 hours ago, Chicago Al said:

What kind of contract will Soto demand at this point if he’s continuing to do this well? 450-500 mil? Surely at least 10 years if not more. Soto wants to win, unless he’s chasing a paycheck the Cubs have to add more talent to entice him to come to Chicago. 

At this point my guess is like 10/500, but it will likely be more like 12/500 just to help ease the overall AAV of the contract. If he comes in less than that, then I consider that found money.

[731.4life]

If the Cubs want to trade Nico, then go ahead. However, I would like to see Henry Ford return and potentially a young bullpen arm. I'll take Polanco in return as well, and eat up the money as he is a free agent at seasons end.

Put Shaw a 3rd base, Triantos at 2nd base, and then you have your middle infielders set up for hopefully years to come in 2025 and beyond in Chicago.

[Rcal10]

24 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

At this point my guess is like 10/500, but it will likely be more like 12/500 just to help ease the overall AAV of the contract. If he comes in less than that, then I consider that found money.

Honesrly it will probably end up more. But it just doesn’t matter. Cubs need to FINALLY land the big FA. If they do trade Happ and also don’t have Bellinger next year they will have enough money to do this and still add. It is time for them to act like a big market team. There is absolutely no reason not to go all in on Soto. 

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, 731.4life said:

If the Cubs want to trade Nico, then go ahead. However, I would like to see Henry Ford return and potentially a young bullpen arm. I'll take Polanco in return as well, and eat up the money as he is a free agent at seasons end.

Put Shaw a 3rd base, Triantos at 2nd base, and then you have your middle infielders set up for hopefully years to come in 2025 and beyond in Chicago.

A few problems with this. First, eating a contract could put them over the LT. This is not going to happen in a year they sell. Next, assuming Triantos and Shaw move into those infield positions flawlessly is a huge leap. You are setting yourself up for more rebuilding. Not something I want to see. 

[chibears55]

1 minute ago, Rcal10 said:

Honesrly it will probably end up more. But it just doesn’t matter. Cubs need to FINALLY land the big FA. If they do trade Happ and also don’t have Bellinger next year they will have enough money to do this and still add. It is time for them to act like a big market team. There is absolutely no reason not to go all in on Soto. 

I don't disagree with you..

But they only do this (big market team) if Rickett puts an end to not wanting to constantly stay under the Threshold or they find a Pres/GM that knows how to build a team around 1 or 2 high cost superstars with a mix of homegrown talent and reasonably priced talent ( not dumpster bargains) .

[731.4life]

3 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

A few problems with this. First, eating a contract could put them over the LT. This is not going to happen in a year they sell. Next, assuming Triantos and Shaw move into those infield positions flawlessly is a huge leap. You are setting yourself up for more rebuilding. Not something I want to see. 

I mean, I'm sure the Cubs will be able to make sure the financials are set to the point where the money is even. If that means a guy like Smyly is gone as well, then that's fine. They're the smart ones, they're going to get that figured out.

Secondly, I don't know who else is blocking Shaw/Trianots in terms of playing time at the major league level... I'm not considering any free agents or anything, just strictly going based on whose in the Cubs system. 

[chibears55]

15 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

A few problems with this. First, eating a contract could put them over the LT. This is not going to happen in a year they sell. Next, assuming Triantos and Shaw move into those infield positions flawlessly is a huge leap. You are setting yourself up for more rebuilding. Not something I want to see. 

They may end up there anyways with some of the young talent they do have that are ready or near ready. They either have to start playing them up or trade them for mlb talent. 

Ballesteros, Shaw, Triantos, Caissie , Alcantara,  Rojas, C.Franklin, etc.

These guys are going to eventually need to be promoted up within the next year or two, so some sort of rebuilding or just being alot younger will happen. Hopefully Hoyer or a new pres/gm will find a way to mix both the better prospects and solid vets like they did in 2015/16 again. 

Edited July 2, 2024 by chibears55

[Tryptamine]

I would love for Triantos to play 2B for the Cubs, but he just can't. As an infielder he's worse than Morel by a good bit. I haven't heard any reports on how CF was going, but lets cross our fingers. 

[Cuzi]

16 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

It boils my blood that I’ve seen this brought up multiple times by Cubs fans. Here! Here where there’s any effort put into avoiding such numbskullery! What is this even supposed to imply? This site’s been begging, for more than a decade through two half decade rebuilds under new and more disgusting than ever ownership, for the Cubs to step up and spend like they really can. They haven’t come close, have been non-competitive for future HoFer after future HoFer, are expected to always be non-competitive, but somehow there’s still massive chunks of the fanbase calling for less spending, more efficiency

It just *feels* like all of this - the great lie that is America really - is built on the masses at least playing ignorant when it comes to money. Magically the only time they’re roused into counting pennies is when a couple find their way to workers 

No one is calling for less spending. I stated a fact. If that boils your blood then there's not much that can be said. Maybe reading comprehension is in order?

[Cuzi]

Just now, TomtheBombadil said:

I’m sure you can find some sucker willing to give you a gold star for a Fact, disingenuously presented as a weapon as is standard in the culture, but what are you calling for then? What was the point being made? Was there a point being made? 
 

You really dont know the point of the post you quoted? It's only in the first and last sentence of the post.

Like I said, reading comprehension is in order here. You took a middle piece that stated a fact regarding the teams situation, ignored the context, and regurgitated your own horsefeathers. That's your own problem you need to work out.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

1 minute ago, Cuzi said:

You really dont know the point of the post you quoted? It's only in the first and last sentence of the post.

Like I said, reading comprehension is in order here. You took a middle piece that stated a fact regarding the teams situation, ignored the context, and regurgitated your own horsefeathers. That's your own problem you need to work out.

I see you've met Tom

[Cuzi]

10 minutes ago, Ding Dong Johnson said:

I see you've met Tom

I suppose I have.

Time to bow out of this one.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I think the problems with the organization run a lot deeper than whether or not they pay a bajillion dollars for some 29-year-old free agent every other off-season.  

[chibears55]

43 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

I think the problems with the organization run a lot deeper than whether or not they pay a bajillion dollars for some 29-year-old free agent every other off-season.  

Problem with the Cubs has been the same as I remember since the Tribune owned and Frey was GM.

they could never sustain a productive farm system, they waited too long to move on from veteran players, they offer too many years and money to mid FA, and they only go after a top star player when they are in their 30s and on decline.

They did it right a couple times but they failed to find a way to keep the roster competitive for multiple years and keep a window open longer because like I said above, they held onto guys too long and couldn't get good trade value for them or lose them for nothing, or they tied up their money into mid/bad FA for too long and couldn't dip into the FA pool or  trades for upgrades or younger stars that cost.

[Backtobanks]

On 7/2/2024 at 10:16 AM, chibears55 said:

They may end up there anyways with some of the young talent they do have that are ready or near ready. They either have to start playing them up or trade them for mlb talent. 

Ballesteros, Shaw, Triantos, Caissie , Alcantara,  Rojas, C.Franklin, etc.

These guys are going to eventually need to be promoted up within the next year or two, so some sort of rebuilding or just being alot younger will happen. Hopefully Hoyer or a new pres/gm will find a way to mix both the better prospects and solid vets like they did in 2015/16 again. 

I think the Cubs ought to be a combination of buyers and sellers.  Trade Bellinger, Taillon, Hendricks, Smyly, Hoerner, Happ, or Suzuki for prospects, while trading PCA, Morel, Alcantra, Triantos, etc. for young controllable stars like Guerrero, Robert, Luzardo, Woo, etc.  It's great to have all of these top prospects, but players like Mervis, PCA, Amaya, Morel, etc. have shown that minor league stats don't always translate into major league success.