Cubs hire Counsell

[CubUgly]

4 hours ago, Transmogrified Tiger said:

This is where I am, even when Renteria got dumped there was some rumblings and fan chatter about the possibility of Maddon coming.  Counsell has been on the market for weeks and interviewed multiple places and there was zero indication that this was a possibility.  

 

I'll maintain that managers don't make an enormous difference, that Ross was fine and most criticisms of him were silly, and that a large part of the perceived gap in Ross and Counsell comes down to the bullpens they were equipped with.  But I am excited at the aggressiveness for the roster that this move would seem to foretell.  It probably also speaks to a bigger disconnect in some lineup or utilization decisions, e.g. maybe the front office really does want Morel at 3B but Ross wouldn't put him there when given any alternatives?

I'll agree they don't make an enormous difference but IMHO this substitution does game a difference for the positive.   And I'm happy not only for the change itself but the direction and attitude I think it signals. 

[Derwood]

The question mark here is can a big market team roster get counsell over the top? His post season record is ugly. 

[UMFan83]

What a day to be off the grid. 
 

At the end of the day, if you are the manager overseeing a historic (to some degree) September collapse then you risk this happening. 

[JHBulls]

2 hours ago, Omar said:

I am guessing there were no dick bumps between David Ross and Jed Hoyer on the way out the door. 

[Bote McBoteface]

This feels unnecessary and expensive but I guess if you currently have not-the-best and the best is available, why not? We better spend on the bullpen this year. If we pay 8mil a year on a manager and stack the bullpen with scrubs on the cheap Im gonna be so sad. 

[Stratos]

HOLY CRAP.  I thought Ross was a decent manager, but had his blind spots.  Counsell as a player always seemed like the biggest baseball nerd in the MLB and an overachiever, and he seems the same as a manager.  This is shrewd move and a clear upgrade.  I'm glad Hoyer is capable of making the tough choices to get better, similar to trading away our previous core.

The 8m salary doesn't effect the payroll, Cubs using their resources well here.  8m buys you about a win (or 2 if you're lucky) in FA and I think Counsell can certainly contribute an extra win or 2 over a season, even just based on the catching infrastructure alone the Brewers have had.  Brewers hitting lineup seems to suck every year on paper and they still score runs and win so I'm excited for this.  This is a great value move for the Cubs and he can help them in constructing a team in the offseason also.

[Cuzi]

6 minutes ago, Bote McBoteface said:

This feels unnecessary and expensive but I guess if you currently have not-the-best and the best is available, why not? We better spend on the bullpen this year. If we pay 8mil a year on a manager and stack the bullpen with scrubs on the cheap Im gonna be so sad. 

Who cares about how much money the manager makes? His salary affects nothing.

[JHBulls]

2 minutes ago, Cuzi said:

Who cares about how much money the manager makes? His salary affects nothing.

Cubs went out and got the best available, that will never be a bad thing. It’s only money at the end of the day. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by JHBulls

[Stratos]

3 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I doubt it. I think this is a situation of opportunity. They didn't even ask the Brewers to interview him (instead waiting until he was officially a FA), and it doesn't seem like they had been conducting a widespread interview process. This feels very closed doors and very opportunistic. They had the chance for the man who is regarded as perhaps the best in the league at what he does, and they made the change.

If not for Counsell I suspect Ross would have been kept no issues.

I agree.  Hoyer must really appreciate Counsell given all the games he's watched against him and pounced on the chance.  Hard to pass up adding one of the best minds in baseball to add to the organization's braintrust.  I don't see any clear reason for the Cubs to fire Ross outright based on performance, he was adequate.

[CubinNY]

I’ve been pretty hard on the Ricketts. Harder than most. I must say I don’t like them, their politics, or really anything about them. They are not good people. 
 

But, I like that they let Jed go after Counsel. And gave him the opportunity to sign him to that record setting contract. My hat is off. 

[Stratos]

If I were Counsell I'd manage a team like the Cubs over the Mets, who are always a hot mess.  If he can help turn the Cubs into overachievers i'm all for it.  Though I think the Brewers front office has a lot to do with that, putting a lot of emphasis on pitching/pen and defense which I think helps them win the close games, which is often cheaper than signing the big bats given their payroll limitations.

[JD94]

53 minutes ago, Derwood said:

The question mark here is can a big market team roster get counsell over the top? His post season record is ugly. 

Most of his Brewers teams really sucked on paper, but he got the absolute most out of them year in and year out. He’s a great manager. 

[chopsx9]

So twice in recent history the Cubs have dumped the existing manager - that in both cases were expected to continue their tenure - when a better manager became available.  Are there other instances of this happening with other teams - I can't recall any but I assume I wasn't paying close enough attention.

[JD94]

2 minutes ago, chopsx9 said:

So twice in recent history the Cubs have dumped the existing manager - that in both cases were expected to continue their tenure - when a better manager became available.  Are there other instances of this happening with other teams - I can't recall any but I assume I wasn't paying close enough attention.

Pretty sure the WS dumped Renteria when they were supposed to start being competitive, just like we did. 

[WhyCantWeWin]

Real question is will he play the best player or the guys that got us here?

[chopsx9]

4 minutes ago, JD94 said:

Pretty sure the WS dumped Renteria when they were supposed to start being competitive, just like we did. 

I'm not talking about dumping a manager and then searching for a new one.  Essentially agreeing to hire a new manager before firing the existing one.  I assume both Renteria and Ross would have continued on if deals had fallen through.

[Nolansomebody]

5 hours ago, UK said:

It's a Home Run hire. He's been able to get more out of less than anyone in the MLB minus Lovullo.

I'll be curious if Tommy sticks around and if they are adjustments to the lab.

Minus key FA signings, this is great.

 

Can't wait for this post to age like milk.

[Nolansomebody]

But in all seriousness, this is a good decision by Jed

[chopsx9]

Not a single mention of Jared Young being claimed by the Cardinals??

[Cuzi]

1 minute ago, chopsx9 said:

Not a single mention of Jared Young being claimed by the Cardinals??

Not in a thread about hiring Counsell. However, if you look in the thread about offseason stuff, I'm betting you'll see it mentioned.

[PackLandVA]

3 hours ago, Backtobanks said:

I just hope they didn't hire him because he's great at handling a low budget team.

This has to be a little bit of a concern, no?

Wonder, if like Maddon, this board will eventually hate Counsel.

 

 

[Cuzi]

Just now, PackLandVA said:

This has to be a little bit of a concern, no?

Wonder, if like Maddon, this board will eventually hate Counsel.

Depends if Counsell loses the clubhouse like Maddon did. The team stopped caring after they won the WS because the manager let them.

[PJCubfan]

I sure didn't see this coming!  I thought the Cubs were stuck with Ross for at least next year!  I'm thrilled with Counsell!  Can't wait 'til next year!

[sweetpeteman]

My reaction to seeing the news ealier:

 

[PJCubfan]

Putting Assad in the pen and starting Stroman was the last straw for me with Ross.  That was just a stupid move!  The two 9th inning losses to the Reds was a managerial failure, imo!  Lots of reasons that Ross is gone.