Laissez les Bears temps rouler (saints game)

[WrigleyField 22]

17 minutes ago, Hairyducked Idiot said:

We are gonna find a way to come out of the draft with neither maye nor Williams and then watch as at least one of them joins stroud and young as better QBs than we cycle through in our perpetual QB hell 

Get ready for the JJ McCarthy hype baby. Local kid!

[Hairyducked Idiot]

21 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I've already said my ideal draft was taking neither Maye or Williams. Unfortunately that dream kind of died when they traded the 2nd for Sweat. I wanted MHJ and one of Fashanu/Alt then to use the 2nd to trade up back into the 1st to grab one of Penix, McCarthy or even Nix.

I understand the impulse, but once you start talking qb3-5 in a draft, the odds you stay in QB hell goes up considerably 

[jersey cubs fan]

Since it is almost certain QB will be a need this off-season, the trend tells us Ryan Poles will ignore the position entirely then sign a random veteran in august and trade a 2nd round pick for one in October. 

[UMFan83]

4 hours ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Get ready for the JJ McCarthy hype baby. Local kid!

I would cry tears of joy.  And then I would cry tears of sadness for JJ once I realize that he's destined to fail here.

Edited November 2, 2023 by UMFan83

[jersey cubs fan]

How does this narrative continue? The bears HAVE NOT invested heavily in their roster. 

[WrigleyField 22]

15 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

I would cry tears of joy.  And then I would cry tears of sadness for JJ once I realize that he's destined to fail here.

He also attended my High School (didn't graduate as he ended up at IMG his senior year).  So I'd have some big rooting interests too.

[UMFan83]

12 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

He also attended my High School (didn't graduate as he ended up at IMG his senior year).  So I'd have some big rooting interests too.

I've spoken to a couple people from La Grange about JJ and honestly haven't heard a bad thing said about him other than light complaining about going to IMG, but also understanding it was the COVID season.  Seems like a genuinely good dude and hope he has NFL success unless he goes to the Packers.

[WrigleyField 22]

4 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

How does this narrative continue? The bears HAVE NOT invested heavily in their roster. 

Tepidly invested /heavily invested. Tamatoe / tamahtoe

[WrigleyField 22]

Bears extend recently acquired defensive lineman!

 

 

[Tryptamine]

12 minutes ago, WrigleyField 22 said:

Bears extend recently acquired defensive lineman!

 

 

I hate you right now.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Do not love the Sweat trade.  

The player, particularly on an expiring deal, just isn't good enough to justify giving away a top-35 pick on behalf of a team whose most valuable assets are 1st round picks and, as such, become less valuable the more games we win. 

For Sweat, particularly seeing that there does not appear to be any extension in place, I just see too much risk that (i) he's not that great and nowhere near worth what we gave up for him, or (ii) he helps us grab an extra win in a year where an extra win basically does nothing for us and, in fact, probably hurts us by raising our draft position.  The loss of our 2nd round pick only exacerbates that risk because our 2nd round pick could've been a vital asset in any effort to move up to 1 or 2 if needed and depending on where the final draft standings shake out (e.g., such as if we end up with picks 3 and 4 but really want Caleb, and thus need extra draft capital to try and move up).

I also just don't love the organization even letting Poles and Eberflus make this trade to begin with (particularly without an extension).  It reeks of letting Ryan Pace move up to take Fields.  For all we know, Eberflus and/or Poles are gone this summer anyway and the next regime will be stuck in a situation where (i) Sweat remains (such as via the franchise tag) but they don't really want him for their scheme, etc., or (ii) Sweat walks in FA and now our new regime is kneecapped by not having a high 2nd round pick that was traded for basically nothing.

To be clear, I don't hate it or anything, but this just doesn't seem that smart and the Washington Post article with all the anonymous quotes from other NFL GMs bashing this move doesn't make me feel a whole lot better.

[tfarks]

23 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

There is no value in this move whatsoever. That’s not hot take stuff, it’s just a fact. The player might stay and produce, but the means of acquisition are a gross misuse of assets, necessitated in Poles’ mind by his own failure to do the job. 

The hot take stuff was specifically referencing Fowler on Jaylon's contract offer. And for Sweat's contract extension being described as a well we'll get to it later maybe probably not a rental by Graziano. And had nothing to do with their take on the trade value. Shortly after this commentary Poles said that no final offer for Jaylon was ever made. Jaylon's camp jumped to a trade request as part of their negotiations and no specific monetary value has been described anywhere. He also mentioned how they are actively working and are confident in getting a deal done soon for Sweat , which is pretty significantly different verbiage than we'll at least make an effort. 

Only I personally mentioned it being good value. Mainly because of a proven commodity who just turned 27. The cost to acquire  Sweat is less than that sent over for Chubb who was not even a year younger and went for a 1st and a 4th. This includes me not caring in the slightest about 4 cheap rookie years for the team with the most cap space in the league or close to it in consecutive years barely scraping above the salary floor. Nor do I believe the Bears need to be in an identical situation of contention as the Dolphins to mix and match draft assets for long term development at cheap pay vs. instant production at high pay. 

I have zero doubt there are many who argue against this in how it pertains to a long term roster building outlook. But this was an absolute disaster of a roster Poles inherited with barely any good draft picks over the last decade to build off of and absent a 1st rounder off the bat. You can look at basically any GM year 2 and find significant holes in his roster. 

This is not me absolving Poles of any criticism in how they have arrived at this situation. Nor in a vacuum how a top 40 pick for Sweat deal grades out. There are 2 2nd rounders on this team from last year both showing some promise and a lot of struggling. At best you'll see consistently good play from them maybe in 2025, if you're lucky. 

Regardless of if any of us agree with his methodology. Poles wants what every team wants. Layers of freaks to throw at the d-line. He now has 3 with Gervon, Pickens and Sweat. Now they'll be able to complete a fair evaluation of the defense - one which likely concludes Flus isn't being limited by talent and will no longer remain the HC. 

 

[jersey cubs fan]

The best players on the team were acquired by the previous regime. Poles had an opportunity to improve the team and he both chose not to and then failed to do so. This awful roster is Poles’ fault, not Ryan Pace. You cannot absolve Poles of making a bad value trade because he was forced into it by his own bad management decisions. 

[tfarks]

32 minutes ago, Have a seat, Neifi said:

I also just don't love the organization even letting Poles and Eberflus make this trade to begin with (particularly without an extension).  It reeks of letting Ryan Pace move up to take Fields.  For all we know, Eberflus and/or Poles are gone this summer anyway and the next regime will be stuck in a situation where (i) Sweat remains (such as via the franchise tag) but they don't really want him for their scheme, etc., or (ii) Sweat walks in FA and now our new regime is kneecapped by not having a high 2nd round pick that was traded for basically nothing.

I don't like to address only 1 thing out of many but I've already rambled for a long time about something that can be attacked in many ways. But in this case Pace was in year 6 as a GM on his 2nd HC who had depleted his draft capital already before. That roster was set up for zero future success unless Fields was such a huge hit he carried everybody.

Sweat doesn't carry that type of levity or risk and cost significantly less. 

Again I am on what is probably a shrinking list of people who believe Poles will be here at least 1 more year. 

[tfarks]

2 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

The best players on the team were acquired by the previous regime. Poles had an opportunity to improve the team and he both chose not to and then failed to do so. This awful roster is Poles’ fault, not Ryan Pace. You cannot absolve Poles of making a bad value trade because he was forced into it by his own bad management decisions. 

I simply don't agree Sweat being acquired for less than that of Bradley Chubb means it's bad value. 

[CubinNY]

Just now, tfarks said:

I simply don't agree Sweat being acquired for less than that of Bradley Chubb means it's bad value. 

That's not the reason. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse, but the reason it is bad is because Poles didn't address the need in the draft, twice! Now they've overpaid and may have a situation where they will still have the need come the next draft. That is horsefeathers awful by any measure. 

[jersey cubs fan]

2 minutes ago, tfarks said:

I simply don't agree Sweat being acquired for less than that of Bradley Chubb means it's bad value. 

That is because you clearly do not understand the concept of value. 

[jersey cubs fan]

11 minutes ago, tfarks said:

I don't like to address only 1 thing out of many but I've already rambled for a long time about something that can be attacked in many ways. But in this case Pace was in year 6 as a GM on his 2nd HC who had depleted his draft capital already before. That roster was set up for zero future success unless Fields was such a huge hit he carried everybody.

Sweat doesn't carry that type of levity or risk and cost significantly less. 

Again I am on what is probably a shrinking list of people who believe Poles will be here at least 1 more year. 

Plenty of people think he will be here. But he doesn’t deserve to be here and there isn’t a reasonable argument out there on the other side. He’s done a terrible job and you can rest assured thay if and when he is replaced, some people will give the next guy all the excuses about the barren roster that guy inherited. 

[tfarks]

3 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

That's not the reason. I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse, but the reason it is bad is because Poles didn't address the need in the draft, twice! Now they've overpaid and may have a situation where they will still have the need come the next draft. That is horsefeathers awful by any measure. 

I'm not being intentionally obtuse. Okay so, edge isn't a solidified position already and Poles is a failure for that. The other side of the coin to me is what could he have done with the resources he had. Who was the big miss at edge in the draft or in FA? I could see an argument taking edge over Darnell Wright...

Every year when the draft comes along it's here's our board. Draft for talent over need. He's in year 2 how is every position supposed to be solidified already?

[CubinNY]

3 minutes ago, tfarks said:

I'm not being intentionally obtuse. Okay so, edge isn't a solidified position already and Poles is a failure for that. The other side of the coin to me is what could he have done with the resources he had. Who was the big miss at edge in the draft or in FA? I could see an argument taking edge over Darnell Wright...

Every year when the draft comes along it's here's our board. Draft for talent over need. He's in year 2 how is every position supposed to be solidified already?

And away we go!

Poles is a failure for myriad reasons. 

[tfarks]

12 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

That is because you clearly do not understand the concept of value. 

Okay then please explain it to me when you have the time. 

The basic parameters I have seen is the Bradley Chubb trade last year. The deal for Chase Young. And the asking price that was revealed for Danielle hunter by Albert Breer (top 60 pick). Hunter is 29 and the value asked for wasn't capitulated. Young was a late 3rd because of medicals. And I've already mentioned Chubb getting higher value than ~35ish. 

If we're arguing keep the pick and tank then sure I accept that being a better move overall. But that doesn't make the Sweat value bad to me. 

[tfarks]

1 minute ago, CubinNY said:

And away we go!

Poles is a failure for myriad reasons. 

Okay and? I'm not defending Poles being a good GM. Nor is his body of work complete if you agreed to his 3 year plan. 

[jersey cubs fan]

2 minutes ago, tfarks said:

Okay and? I'm not defending Poles being a good GM. Nor is his body of work complete if you agreed to his 3 year plan. 

There’s no such thing as a 3 year plan 

[Sammy Sofa]

7 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

There’s no such thing as a 3 year plan 

[minnesotacubsfan]

5 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

There’s no such thing as a 3 year plan 

in a vacuum, I don't hate the Sweat trade. Hes a decent edge and giving up a 2nd doesn't scare me, but if he doesnt get an extension worked out my view changes immediately. But this is kind of the point ^^^^^.

Poles, by all appearances, doesn't seem to have a plan. he stripped the cupboard when he arrived and his only answer to replenishing it has been to knee-jerk his way through FA and trades without any long term vision