Laissez les Bears temps rouler (saints game)

[Wilson A2000]

 

 

[BigSlick]

If Poles is unable to sign Sweat to a long term deal I think I might have to take another few years off from paying attention to this team 

It's not a huge thing in the grand scheme, I mean, but it would be the culmination of tons of really bad dumb decisions. And it would be such an easily avoidable blunder. 

I'm not even necessarily mad they didn't go after edge rushers the last few years - it takes a long time to build a good roster and I'm OK with them, theoretically, being like 'we're rebuilding, we're focused on developing an offense and a QB, we're not committing a ton of resources to this area of the team for right now', but then they make a deal like this, which is ??? doesn't make any sense. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

3 hours ago, tfarks said:

I'm not being intentionally obtuse. Okay so, edge isn't a solidified position already and Poles is a failure for that. The other side of the coin to me is what could he have done with the resources he had. Who was the big miss at edge in the draft or in FA? I could see an argument taking edge over Darnell Wright...

Every year when the draft comes along it's here's our board. Draft for talent over need. He's in year 2 how is every position supposed to be solidified already?

Not Edge but he absolutely should have made major plays for Hargraves and Calais so he wouldn't have been forced into the double dip Dexter and Pickens. The dude has had near record-breaking cap space and has added 2 LBs with it and that's it. That's egregious. He signed a bunch of horsefeathers just to meet the floor. 

[WrigleyField 22]

1 minute ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Not Edge but he absolutely should have made major plays for Hargraves and Calais so he wouldn't have been forced into the double dip Dexter and Pickens. The dude has had near record-breaking cap space and has added 2 LBs with it and that's it. That's egregious. He signed a bunch of horsefeathers just to meet the floor. 

Hey he got a RG who's hardly played too

[Tim]

4 hours ago, jersey cubs fan said:

The best players on the team were acquired by the previous regime. 

Name a Pace player better than DJ Moore.

[minnesotacubsfan]

15 minutes ago, Tim said:

Name a Pace player better than DJ Moore.

Mack, in their prime

[Rex Buckingham]

2 hours ago, minnesotacubsfan said:

Mack, in their prime

definitely, but not currently on the roster, which I do believe was Tim's point

[Outshined_One]

If Sweat doesn't sign an extension, Poles should be fired immediately. Crap happens with guys you draft and that's unpredictable. Free agents tend to be old and a roll of the dice. But trading for a dude with a second rounder and only getting a couple of games out of him?

That's almost as bad as trading for Rick horsefeathers Mirer.

 

[minnesotacubsfan]

18 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

definitely, but not currently on the roster, which I do believe was Tim's point

who cares about the current roster by itself, Poles got rid of more talent than he's brought in

 

[Soul]

11 hours ago, Outshined_One said:

If Sweat doesn't sign an extension, Poles should be fired immediately. Crap happens with guys you draft and that's unpredictable. Free agents tend to be old and a roll of the dice. But trading for a dude with a second rounder and only getting a couple of games out of him?

That's almost as bad as trading for Rick horsefeathers Mirer.

 

He says he’s confident he can get one done.  We’ll see.  I don’t know why he wouldn’t test the waters rather than sign here before he even gets the chance.  I guess Poles could franchise him?

[jersey cubs fan]

8 minutes ago, Soul said:

He says he’s confident he can get one done.  We’ll see.  I don’t know why he wouldn’t test the waters rather than sign here before he even gets the chance.  I guess Poles could franchise him?

The bigger issue is the player isn’t close to being worth the franchise designation. 
 

 

but I guess when you don’t spend money anywhere else it’s overpaying doesn’t matter 

Edited November 3, 2023 by jersey cubs fan

[We Got The Whole 9]

1 hour ago, jersey cubs fan said:

The bigger issue is the player isn’t close to being worth the franchise designation. 
 

 

but I guess when you don’t spend money anywhere else it’s overpaying doesn’t matter 

Eh, he's not close? I don't agree with that. 

Sweat has the highest run-defense grade among all edge defenders since 2020 (90.5). Sweat’s lowest snap count in a season for his career is 483 snaps in 2021, with at least 693 in his three other campaigns. (PFF comparing him to) Gary has reached the 483 mark only once in four seasons to this point, and his run-defense grade since 2021 is 68.4.

This is not to say Sweat can’t rush the passer — far from it. Since 2022, Sweat’s 89 pressures rank 11th among edge defenders, his 13.6% pressure rate ranks 25th among edge rushers with at least 250 pass-rush snaps and his 14.5 sacks rank tied for 13th.

 

That's a great all-around Edge player, who is on pace for 15 sacks this season. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by We Got The Whole 9

[minnesotacubsfan]

8 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Eh, he's not close? I don't agree with that. 

Sweat has the highest run-defense grade among all edge defenders since 2020 (90.5). Sweat’s lowest snap count in a season for his career is 483 snaps in 2021, with at least 693 in his three other campaigns. (PFF comparing him to) Gary has reached the 483 mark only once in four seasons to this point, and his run-defense grade since 2021 is 68.4.

This is not to say Sweat can’t rush the passer — far from it. Since 2022, Sweat’s 89 pressures rank 11th among edge defenders, his 13.6% pressure rate ranks 25th among edge rushers with at least 250 pass-rush snaps and his 14.5 sacks rank tied for 13th.

 

That's a great all-around Edge player, who is on pace for 15 sacks this season. 

this is why I'm not terribly hurt by giving up a 2nd for him, but at this point, he's still just a rental and if he costs the Bears their franchise tag, I will be pissed.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea  for better or worse they really would need the franchise tag for Jaylon Johnson (even just for negotiations).  They can't hold it over both.  Needs to lock up at least one.

[WrigleyField 22]

13 hours ago, Rex Buckingham said:

definitely, but not currently on the roster, which I do believe was Tim's point

Poles, trying to find out where players like Mack are from the current roster

 

(I generally thought the Mack move was fine in isolation, but hard tanking after, nah)

[We Got The Whole 9]

3 minutes ago, minnesotacubsfan said:

this is why I'm not terribly hurt by giving up a 2nd for him, but at this point, he's still just a rental and if he costs the Bears their franchise tag, I will be pissed.

Poles needs to suck it up and extend he or Johnson and tag the other. Why would you be pissed if he has to tag Sweat? It's not like they're loaded with expirings worthy of it. 

 

Poles needs to properly value Johnson. He just basically showed he views Sweat as immensely valuable even without the high volume of splash plays and he has to realize that Johnson's lockdown ability - without DL providing horsefeathers anything in front of him - is extraordinary and highly valuable. Poles is a PFF nerd I bet and PFF is beating him over the head with proof he needs a top-dollar contract. 

 

If Poles costs us Johnson I will absolutely be pissed. But he shouldn't have any damn reservations about locking him into a top-of-the-market contract. The table is set to have them both for a half-decade and plenty of room to still build around them.

[WrigleyField 22]

6 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Poles needs to suck it up and extend he or Johnson and tag the other. Why would you be pissed if he has to tag Sweat? It's not like they're loaded with expirings worthy of it. 

 

Poles needs to properly value Johnson. He just basically showed he views Sweat as immensely valuable even without the high volume of splash plays and he has to realize that Johnson's lockdown ability - without DL providing horsefeathers anything in front of him - is extraordinary and highly valuable. Poles is a PFF nerd I bet and PFF is beating him over the head with proof he needs a top-dollar contract. 

 

If Poles costs us Johnson I will absolutely be pissed. But he shouldn't have any damn reservations about locking him into a top-of-the-market contract. The table is set to have them both for a half-decade and plenty of room to still build around them.

He's afraid of the salary cap.  Can't be helped. Hope the next GM understands the cap.

Edited November 3, 2023 by WrigleyField 22

[minnesotacubsfan]

21 minutes ago, We Got The Whole 9 said:

Poles needs to suck it up and extend he or Johnson and tag the other. Why would you be pissed if he has to tag Sweat? It's not like they're loaded with expirings worthy of it. 

 

Poles needs to properly value Johnson. He just basically showed he views Sweat as immensely valuable even without the high volume of splash plays and he has to realize that Johnson's lockdown ability - without DL providing horsefeathers anything in front of him - is extraordinary and highly valuable. Poles is a PFF nerd I bet and PFF is beating him over the head with proof he needs a top-dollar contract. 

 

If Poles costs us Johnson I will absolutely be pissed. But he shouldn't have any damn reservations about locking him into a top-of-the-market contract. The table is set to have them both for a half-decade and plenty of room to still build around them.

My concern is what wrigley stated above; not being able to franchise tag Johnson because Poles feels he has to franchise Sweat instead. That scenario feels far more likely than resigning Johnson at this point; given Johnson was told he could seek his own trade

 

 

 

 

[Bearded_Beef]

I get being a little perplexed about the move, I get being concerned about overpaying and I get having PTSD from the Claypool trade, but there is a ton of negative overreaction from Bears fandom.  I'm pretty sure we have reached a level of fanbase misery that I haven't seen since 2003-2005 Cubs fandom. 

I think Poles gave pretty solid reasoning for making the move:

“In terms of our process, really this is a situation where you try to forecast forward,” Poles said. “You look at the draft potential — our guys have been doing a really good job getting information in — as well as free agency. We felt like this was a really good opportunity to get ahead of that and get a top pass rusher in the building. And again, that’s short term but also for long term. We’re currently working on getting a contract done now.”

Seems to me that he probably liked Sweat more than anyone who was available last offseason and more than anyone else in the upcoming draft or approaching FA this offseason.  Who would you guys rather have than Sweat?

I am excited that we got him.  Our D-Line needed help desperately and I really do agree that pressure is a multiplier for defenses.  Just like everyone saying we couldn't judge Fields last year because the O-line and WR's sucked, I really don't think we can truly evaluate our defense (specifically the secondary) when we can't even get to the QB.  Sweat is worth a 2nd round draft pick, and yes I know that we have to pay him too.

People always saying all of this is on Poles forget what he inherited.  I think the organization as a whole is in a better position than it was when he took over.  We were maxed out on salary cap with no hope for the future with Pace trading all of our future picks.  Dudes made some mistakes and you can question whether or not you agree with his approach to the rebuild, but you all act like he's incompetent and I am just not seeing that at all.

[jersey cubs fan]

People who keep blaming past regimes failures are going to do the same nonsense for whoever replaces Poles. He’s been a disaster and I cannot imagine how anybody thinks he’s the guy to get this team out of the dumps. 
 

he made a mediocre team much worse. 

[Bearded_Beef]

6 minutes ago, jersey cubs fan said:

People who keep blaming past regimes failures are going to do the same nonsense for whoever replaces Poles. He’s been a disaster and I cannot imagine how anybody thinks he’s the guy to get this team out of the dumps. 
 

he made a mediocre team much worse. 

Disagree, that team was old and expensive and we had no future draft picks.  The organization is stronger now than it was when we were "mediocre", despite the record.  If the next regime inherits a team with picks and/or talent then it'll be easier to hold them accountable.  He's doing what good teams do and building through the draft and being opportunistic with trading.  Moore and Sweat are studs.  Let's just hope he can draft well.

[champaignchris]

From 73-75, the Bears went 11-31 (.262). That’s the worst 3-year stretch in team history by winning percentage  

From 21-23, the Bears are 11-31. If they go 2-7 the rest of the way, this will become the worst 3-year stretch in team history..
 

 

[Bearded_Beef]

3 minutes ago, champaignchris said:

From 73-75, the Bears went 11-31 (.262). That’s the worst 3-year stretch in team history by winning percentage  

From 21-23, the Bears are 11-31. If they go 2-7 the rest of the way, this will become the worst 3-year stretch in team history..
 

 

Right and thats somehow all Poles, and not the guy that we all knew was trading away the future for a chance to win now and restructuring contracts to sign mediocre talent that would saddle us further into the future.  It's kind of bonkers how one note everyone is on their record when we all lived through the Pace era and knew what was happening at the time.

[CubinNY]

2 minutes ago, Bearded_Beef said:

Right and thats somehow all Poles, and not the guy that we all knew was trading away the future for a chance to win now and restructuring contracts to sign mediocre talent that would saddle us further into the future.  It's kind of bonkers how one note everyone is on their record when we all lived through the Pace era and knew what was happening at the time.

Not the first year, but the rest of them. This is the NFL and he had a near-unprecedented amount of money and draft picks. it doesn't take five years to get better. I suppose the fact that Fields was/is awful is not his fault either. But he's created situations where he's not allocating money and draft picks well. The team is awful and it's not round up,. 

[Bearded_Beef]

49 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Not the first year, but the rest of them. This is the NFL and he had a near-unprecedented amount of money and draft picks. it doesn't take five years to get better. I suppose the fact that Fields was/is awful is not his fault either. But he's created situations where he's not allocating money and draft picks well. The team is awful and it's not round up,. 

Poles hasn't been here for 5 years.  Poles was hired last year, and it does take multiple years when you start with basically less-than nothing.  You don't build through FA and the dude has basically had one full strength draft.  "This is the NFL" is a cop out to good discussion.  Yes, teams can get better quickly, but those teams usually have something to build off of.  When he took over he had an aging, expensive D-Line and Justin Fields.  Literally the rest of the team sucked, other than Montgomery and Roquan, and neither of them play a premium position.  You all like to crap on Fields too, so maybe you're right and he didn't even have anything there.

Please, put together a mock draft from last year, and a FA class that would've made this team likely to win the Superbowl.  I bet you struggle to do it even with the benefit of hindsight.  I am glad that Poles didn't try to do anything that stupid.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Bearded_Beef