College Basketball 2023-2024

[scarey]

12 hours ago, bukie said:

It was because they shot 60% from 3.

As a Purdue fan, I would give them a bit more credit than that. They seemingly couldn't miss from three (all the fall-away threes were infuriating to watch) but they also did a number on Edey and did a good job jumping passing lanes on the perimeter. They played a really good game. Hats off.

60% from three was a huge factor, but it wasn't the sole reason. I think they're a legit team (although I fully expect them to get crushed by Iowa, it seems to be the way it goes when teams knock us off our perch).

[Derwood]

The #1, 2, 3 and 5th ranked teams all lost this week. 

[bukie]

Is Michigan the worst team in the Big Ten this year? They're now 1-4 in the league with losses to Minnesota,  Penn State and Maryland,  the three teams I thought were the worst. 

[gflore34]

I find it hard to believe Izzo tried the big man on Rodgers approach yesterday.  Rodgers ate Sissoko up, wasn't even close, 6-9 is not 7-4 Tom, don't know how he thought an emulation of what Purdue did was going to work.

Post game Underwood mentioned several players were coming off illness, because of illness they had to cancel a couple of practices, in this light the win last night was very impressive.  Add to this the desperation of MSU, they wanted it badly, you see it in their play, and the Illini came away with the win.

[sneakypower]

12 hours ago, bukie said:

Is Michigan the worst team in the Big Ten this year? They're now 1-4 in the league with losses to Minnesota,  Penn State and Maryland,  the three teams I thought were the worst. 

at full strength i think probably not, but our best player's on academic suspension and there's not really a single functional backup PG to suitably fill in so we'll likely continue to lose all road games during Dug's absence

i really miss the Beilein days

[Ding Dong Johnson]

13 hours ago, bukie said:

Is Michigan the worst team in the Big Ten this year? They're now 1-4 in the league with losses to Minnesota,  Penn State and Maryland,  the three teams I thought were the worst. 

Oh, who was the 1 win against?

This is not a good league again this season.

[UMFan83]

1 hour ago, sneakypower said:

at full strength i think probably not, but our best player's on academic suspension and there's not really a single functional backup PG to suitably fill in so we'll likely continue to lose all road games during Dug's absence

i really miss the Beilein days

The inability to figure out defense is mind numbing.  Every offseason portal guy was considered a good defender and KenPom liked Michigan somewhere in the 40s on the strength of their defense before the season but this years defense is somehow worse than the previous 2 years.  It's amazing how Beilein could spend years building this great culture, almost making Michigan look blue bloodish if you squinted your eyes and ignored the decade in the wilderness, and in just a couple of years its destroyed.  Howard really should have mixed up his assistants last year at the very least...not doing so I guess gives him a potential argument for him keeping his job (not saying he will necessarily but he can at least claim he can get things back on track by replacing assistants).  Also shouldn't have spent the last 2 offseasons to get TSJ and Caleb Love on campus when it was apparently clear they would have major admissions issues.  

Will they fire Howard?  If he wasn't Fab 5 legend Juwan Howard, he might have already been fired, especially considering the various incidents.  It's really hard to ignore the massive decline from 2021 to now but he might be able to talk himself into one more year to the delight of the rest of the Big Ten.

Football team has certainly helped mask how bad its been but now the focus is on the mess that men's basketball.

Edited January 12, 2024 by UMFan83

[Irrelevant Dude]

Soooo..... Now what?

I'm assuming there would be another hearing fairly quickly to comply with Title IX, at which point Shannon could be suspended again?  But how quickly can that occur, and are they going to let him play in the interim?  The wording seems to indicate that they have no choice but to reinstate him immediately.

[Tryptamine]

4 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Soooo..... Now what?

I'm assuming there would be another hearing fairly quickly to comply with Title IX, at which point Shannon could be suspended again?  But how quickly can that occur, and are they going to let him play in the interim?  The wording seems to indicate that they have no choice but to reinstate him immediately.

I'd be shocked if they fought against this at all. This gives them the legal reason they need to let their star athlete play despite what is going on. I'd expect him to be playing immediately.

[Irrelevant Dude]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

I'd be shocked if they fought against this at all. This gives them the legal reason they need to let their star athlete play despite what is going on. I'd expect him to be playing immediately.

Looking at it from the standpoint of the basketball program, sure.  But the university as a whole has larger interests than just basketball wins and losses and ultimately they will decide how strongly to defend their policies.

[bukie]

6 hours ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Looking at it from the standpoint of the basketball program, sure.  But the university as a whole has larger interests than just basketball wins and losses and ultimately they will decide how strongly to defend their policies.

The ruling effectively ties the university's decision to the results of the court case, of which the preliminary hearing is in February. They could choose to revise their policy, but to even organize something like that could take months.

The Title IX portion is effectively irrelevant, as the court ruled that it did not apply here, so the university has nothing to do on this front. The ruling is just that suspending him without due process and a chance to defend themselves is unfair to Shannon.

As a result, TJ Shannon will play immediately, and at the least until the resolution of the court case. If he's found guilty, he'll be dismissed from the team. If he settles, the university can and probably will move to dismiss him from the team.

Here's a thorough podcast on the situation and result from today: 

 

[Irrelevant Dude]

18 minutes ago, bukie said:

As a result, TJ Shannon will play immediately, and at the least until the resolution of the court case. If he's found guilty, he'll be dismissed from the team.

There is no way a trial would occur prior to the end of the season, so I think that part is irrelevant.  Barring the case being dismissed or some sort of plea deal, the season will be over well before any court resolution.  Once the season is over, he no longer has to worry about being dismissed from the team, so he might be more willing to plead to a lesser charge at that point.  Of course, depending on what evidence actually exists and what his story is, he may want to see it all the way the through to try to clear his name completely.

Whatever ends up happening, today's ruling is likely going to have a lot of universities revisiting their policies for the NIL era.  College sports are a different world now.

[bukie]

7 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

There is no way a trial would occur prior to the end of the season, so I think that part is irrelevant.  Barring the case being dismissed or some sort of plea deal, the season will be over well before any court resolution.  Once the season is over, he no longer has to worry about being dismissed from the team, so he might be more willing to plead to a lesser charge at that point.  Of course, depending on what evidence actually exists and what his story is, he may want to see it all the way the through to try to clear his name completely.

Whatever ends up happening, today's ruling is likely going to have a lot of universities revisiting their policies for the NIL era.  College sports are a different world now.

There are several things that could progress during the season that would alter this scenario:

- Plea deal on hearing date in Feb (unlikely unless he's guilty and wants to avoid 50 years of jail time)
- Grand jury indictment (he hasn't actually been indicted yet, just issued an arrest warrant based on an affadavit)
- Case is dropped (then he wouldn't need the TRO anymore)

There is no doubt he's playing Sunday, though, and he'll likely get an ovation from the fans, which will be odd for everyone. In my opinion, he deserves the benefit of the doubt until otherwise shown in court. Just like the accuser deserves the benefit of the doubt to allow the proceedings to proceed until the court process is resolved one way or the other. Believing the accuser doesn't automatically mean condemning the defendant.

[Irrelevant Dude]

2 minutes ago, bukie said:

- Grand jury indictment (he hasn't actually been indicted yet, just issued an arrest warrant based on an affadavit)

There is already a preliminary hearing scheduled.  Doesn't that occur in place of a grand jury?  It's one or the other, not both, right?

[bukie]

7 minutes ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

There is already a preliminary hearing scheduled.  Doesn't that occur in place of a grand jury?  It's one or the other, not both, right?

At any time the prosecutor can bring the evidence before a grand jury to procure an indictment independent of the preliminary hearing (which would be a similar process but before a judge rather than an grand jury). This is a more typical procedure for a criminal prosecution, which is just one of the many oddities associated with this situation (another being the prosecutor bringing both felony and misdemeanor charges for the same offense, typically it's one or the other).

If you have specific legal questions, give that podcast a listen. The lawyer involved goes through all the proceedings and the associated responsibilities and expectations from all 3 sides of the situation (the accuser/prosecution, the defendant, and the university).

[javy knows my name]

Since this thread is about the university of Illinois and nothing else, I think it's relevant to say that a close friend of mine was sexually harassed by a professor many years ago and the school did and is doing everything they can to suppress it. She is still going to horsefeathers hearings ten years later and nothing is changing. So I think your hero will be fine

[bukie]

Meanwhile at DePaul:

 

Can anyone win/turn things around at DePaul, or are they just permanently a mid-major program stuck in a major conference?

[UMFan83]

1 minute ago, bukie said:

Meanwhile at DePaul:

 

Can anyone win/turn things around at DePaul, or are they just permanently a mid-major program stuck in a major conference?

Will Wade could turn the program around in 2 years but DePaul has virtually zero NIL program and almost no willing donors so I don't think he'd come here.  There is a report that DePaul is going to spend big on the next coach but again the same problems exist in that there is no enthusiasm for the program at all and without enthusiasm there is no NIL and with no NIL, no one is going to want to play here. 

In this current era its going to be tough.  No NIL makes it tough to recruit and retain players.  If you hire a coach that is great at developing players, most likely those players just bolt when they get interest from blue bloods. 

[mul21]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:44 AM, javy knows my name said:

Since this thread is about the university of Illinois and nothing else, I think it's relevant to say that a close friend of mine was sexually harassed by a professor many years ago and the school did and is doing everything they can to suppress it. She is still going to horsefeathers hearings ten years later and nothing is changing. So I think your hero will be fine

Listen, I think most of us here have enough of a track record that we're at best uncomfortable with this whole situation so to call him anyone's "hero" is kinda ******.  I hope he didn't do it, the evidence he did is specious, but things like this have gone unreported and unpunished all too often.  The standing ovation was I wish wouldn't have happened but a lot of college students haven't gotten enough life experience and perspective to keep them from feeling that way.  I obviously have no idea what happened in Lawrence that night but if he did what he's accused of, send his ass to jail.

[Sammy Sofa]

41 minutes ago, mul21 said:

The standing ovation was I wish wouldn't have happened but a lot of college students haven't gotten enough life experience and perspective to keep them from feeling that way.

STRONGLY disagree. 

[mul21]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Sofa said:

STRONGLY disagree. 

I think you're wildly underestimating how dumb 18-22 year olds (especially privileged white guys from the Chicago suburbs) are and how easy it is to fall into the "these are my colors and nobody can mess with them" mentality.  

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I don’t really get why the evidence is specious, other than us Illinois fans wanting it to be. Not a lawyer, not an expert. I’ve read a fair amount but not all of the public facts that have come out on Twitter and elsewhere surrounding the case. The amount of people on Illini message boards pointing to things like lack of video evidence or witnesses like that’s a common thing for sexual assault cases is confusing. Also a lot of “he seems like such a nice guy in interviews,” stuff like we haven’t been through this with celebrities with previously clean images before.

 

I hope it’s not true, because that would mean the accuser was subjected to something awful and traumatic. But, given what we know about how infrequent false accusations of sexual assault are, the rush to poke holes in the case feels very uncomfortable.

[Irrelevant Dude]

45 minutes ago, mul21 said:

The standing ovation was I wish wouldn't have happened but a lot of college students haven't gotten enough life experience and perspective to keep them from feeling that way.

That assumes it was only the college students standing, which I doubt.  I'm not opposed to Shannon playing based on the evidence that is presently available, but I am also aware that none of us have the complete picture of the facts right now.  Knowing what I don't know, I certainly wouldn't participate in a standing ovation or run out to buy a jersey in a "show of support," but I am still going to root for the team as a whole and hope that evidence will eventually show Shannon didn't do what is being alleged.  I also recognize that it is entirely possible he is guilty, in which case he should face the consequences, but there is a lot that still needs to happen to get to that point.

[Sammy Sofa]

19 minutes ago, mul21 said:

I think you're wildly underestimating how dumb 18-22 year olds (especially privileged white guys from the Chicago suburbs) are and how easy it is to fall into the "these are my colors and nobody can mess with them" mentality.  

That's true for too many sports fans of any age. 

"Don't give a standing ovation to the guy embroiled in a sexual assault case" isn't a tricky thing to suss out. We don't need to act like college students are just confused babes wandering lost in the woods over some, IMO, pretty basic human decency horsefeathers. They're making a ****** choice.

[champaignchris]

1 hour ago, Bobson Dugnutt said:

I don’t really get why the evidence is specious, other than us Illinois fans wanting it to be. Not a lawyer, not an expert. I’ve read a fair amount but not all of the public facts that have come out on Twitter and elsewhere surrounding the case. The amount of people on Illini message boards pointing to things like lack of video evidence or witnesses like that’s a common thing for sexual assault cases is confusing. Also a lot of “he seems like such a nice guy in interviews,” stuff like we haven’t been through this with celebrities with previously clean images before.

 

I hope it’s not true, because that would mean the accuser was subjected to something awful and traumatic. But, given what we know about how infrequent false accusations of sexual assault are, the rush to poke holes in the case feels very uncomfortable.

The people talking about lack of witnesses and lack of video evidence are doing so because the alleged occurrence happened in a crowded public place with several security cameras running. 
 

I’m a criminal defense attorney. Based on what’s been released to the public, I would be very confident taking Shannon’s case to a jury.