Cubs offseason chit chat...

[squally1313]

8 minutes ago, Backtobanks said:

This is  what I have been saying for quite a while.  I believe signing Bellinger gives you a solid, productive CF for about 4 years and PCA's trade value goes a long way toward acquiring someone like Clase or a young, controlled TOR.  The trade would have to be for a "sure thing" though. 

My immediate reaction is that PCAs trade value far exceeds Clase's, but the Trade Value site loves Clase. This trade came out as about perfectly even:

• PCA and Wesneski
• Clase, Bieber, Josh Naylor

Obviously contingent on a Bellinger signing. That trade adds $23m, call it $25 for Bellinger and you're still under most projections. Opening day looks like this:

1. LF Happ
2. 2B Nico
3. CF Belli
4. RF Seiya
5. SS Dansby
6. 1B Naylor
7. DH Busch/Morel
8. C Gomes/Amaya
9. 3B Wisdom/Madrigal/Busch/Morel

Bench/DH: Amaya, Madrigal, Busch, Morel, Tauchman/Canario. Realistically there's a trade here to jettison someone from the Wisdom/Madrigal/Morel group and give a spot to someone else who can play outfield.

1. Steele
2. Bieber
3. Imanaga
4. Taillon
5. Wicks
6. Hendricks

Bullpen: Clase, Azlolay, Merryweather, Smyly, Leiter, Almonte, Assad (Little, Cuas, Brown, Brewer, Palencia, Thompson, Rucker)

[Rcal10]

7 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

My immediate reaction is that PCAs trade value far exceeds Clase's, but the Trade Value site loves Clase. This trade came out as about perfectly even:

• PCA and Wesneski
• Clase, Bieber, Josh Naylor

Obviously contingent on a Bellinger signing. That trade adds $23m, call it $25 for Bellinger and you're still under most projections. Opening day looks like this:

1. LF Happ
2. 2B Nico
3. CF Belli
4. RF Seiya
5. SS Dansby
6. 1B Naylor
7. DH Busch/Morel
8. C Gomes/Amaya
9. 3B Wisdom/Madrigal/Busch/Morel

Bench/DH: Amaya, Madrigal, Busch, Morel, Tauchman/Canario. Realistically there's a trade here to jettison someone from the Wisdom/Madrigal/Morel group and give a spot to someone else who can play outfield.

1. Steele
2. Bieber
3. Imanaga
4. Taillon
5. Wicks
6. Hendricks

Bullpen: Clase, Azlolay, Merryweather, Smyly, Leiter, Almonte, Assad (Little, Cuas, Brown, Brewer, Palencia, Thompson, Rucker)

And if either Morel or Busch could handle 3rd this would be the best team the Cubs could put on the field in 24. And they would be central favorites and a 90+ win team. 

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Rcal10 said:

Well than all of Belt, Martinez and Turner are off the table. Sure, Belt can play 1st, but Jed already said that is Busch’s position. If they resign Bellinger he would be the fall back (or Morel) if Busch struggled. What we come back to is cubs really need that second bat to be a 3rd baseman. Assuming it can’t be Morel, and they do eventually sign Bellinger, that is the only position they need an upgrade bat. Which means they have to trade for one, assuming they don’t want to tie the option up long term. 

Well Belt and Martinez were much better hitters than Turner so they weren't just 1 war guys, so you could legitimize them at full time DH more.

We really don't know what they'll do at 3b and DH.  Will be interesting to see who else they pick up.  I think they could live with who they have now at 3B.  Busch might be the other 3B and they grab a 1b/DH type.  But would be nice if they had yet another 3b/1b option.

[chibears55]

Just over a month before ST and still no clear idea on who will play 1B, 3B, or CF for them. 

As of now, we're looking at Busch, Madrigal,  and Tauchman as their starters with Wisdom,  Mastrobuoni,  and maybe Canairo on the bench.. ( all on projected depth chart)

Holy struggling offense batman...

[BearDown1223]

1 hour ago, squally1313 said:

My immediate reaction is that PCAs trade value far exceeds Clase's, but the Trade Value site loves Clase. This trade came out as about perfectly even:

• PCA and Wesneski
• Clase, Bieber, Josh Naylor

Obviously contingent on a Bellinger signing. That trade adds $23m, call it $25 for Bellinger and you're still under most projections. Opening day looks like this:

1. LF Happ
2. 2B Nico
3. CF Belli
4. RF Seiya
5. SS Dansby
6. 1B Naylor
7. DH Busch/Morel
8. C Gomes/Amaya
9. 3B Wisdom/Madrigal/Busch/Morel

Bench/DH: Amaya, Madrigal, Busch, Morel, Tauchman/Canario. Realistically there's a trade here to jettison someone from the Wisdom/Madrigal/Morel group and give a spot to someone else who can play outfield.

1. Steele
2. Bieber
3. Imanaga
4. Taillon
5. Wicks
6. Hendricks

Bullpen: Clase, Azlolay, Merryweather, Smyly, Leiter, Almonte, Assad (Little, Cuas, Brown, Brewer, Palencia, Thompson, Rucker)

can we find a way to get Ramirez instead?

Clase and Ramirez

PCA, Morel, Brown, Assad, Caissie - maybe more? literally anyone but Horton

[squally1313]

5 minutes ago, BearDown1223 said:

can we find a way to get Ramirez instead?

Clase and Ramirez

PCA, Morel, Brown, Assad, Caissie - maybe more? literally anyone but Horton

Leaving out Horton, the BBTV site says you'd need to also throw in either Triantos and Wesneski or Shaw or Alcantara. I think everyone would prefer option A there, but goes to show you the price. Basically has Ramirez with slightly less value than PCA + Horton

[Backtobanks]

2 hours ago, squally1313 said:

My immediate reaction is that PCAs trade value far exceeds Clase's, but the Trade Value site loves Clase. This trade came out as about perfectly even:

• PCA and Wesneski
• Clase, Bieber, Josh Naylor

Obviously contingent on a Bellinger signing. That trade adds $23m, call it $25 for Bellinger and you're still under most projections. Opening day looks like this:

1. LF Happ
2. 2B Nico
3. CF Belli
4. RF Seiya
5. SS Dansby
6. 1B Naylor
7. DH Busch/Morel
8. C Gomes/Amaya
9. 3B Wisdom/Madrigal/Busch/Morel

Bench/DH: Amaya, Madrigal, Busch, Morel, Tauchman/Canario. Realistically there's a trade here to jettison someone from the Wisdom/Madrigal/Morel group and give a spot to someone else who can play outfield.

1. Steele
2. Bieber
3. Imanaga
4. Taillon
5. Wicks
6. Hendricks

Bullpen: Clase, Azlolay, Merryweather, Smyly, Leiter, Almonte, Assad (Little, Cuas, Brown, Brewer, Palencia, Thompson, Rucker)

Then trade Madrigal + Mervis + Assad for Tanner Scott and Bryan De La Cruz.  We would be set for years if only Hoyer would be willing to be a little more proactive.

[Tryptamine]

1 hour ago, BearDown1223 said:

can we find a way to get Ramirez instead?

Clase and Ramirez

PCA, Morel, Brown, Assad, Caissie - maybe more? literally anyone but Horton

I'd love to have JRam, but if Cleveland traded him, after he gave them a huge huge home team discount, that would drastically harm their relationship with the players and agents going forward. That's just assuming he doesn't have a full NTC which he likely does.

[Tim]

5 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I'd love to have JRam, but if Cleveland traded him, after he gave them a huge huge home team discount, that would drastically harm their relationship with the players and agents going forward. That's just assuming he doesn't have a full NTC which he likely does.

If he doesn't have 5/10 rights yet, he's damn close.

--- edited to add

Nope. he's at 9 years, 74 games.

[Tryptamine]

Toronto snagged Yariel Rodriguez in a 4/32 deal and I am incredibly jealous. I don't know that he's a starter, but I do believe he's a lock down reliever. 

[Cuzi]

Here we go again with the Jose Ramirez talk. He's not going anywhere people, forget it. It's not up to the team if he stays or goes. It's up to Ramirez and he made his decision loud and clear with the contract he signed and the FULL NTC he asked for on top.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Speaking of Ramirez, Ben Clemens just posted a fascinating article on him 

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jose-ramirez-is-a-marvel/

 

The man is so damn good almost across the board, except, apparently, he struggles vs sweepers from opposite-handed pitchers and has a noodle at 3B. Yet despite the noodle he is comfortably in the top 10 3B in pretty much every defensive category. More evidence that arm strength is not as necessary as we are trained to believe. Fast throws are empty calories. 

[thawv]

1 hour ago, Tim said:

If he doesn't have 5/10 rights yet, he's damn close.

--- edited to add

Nope. he's at 9 years, 74 games.

He has a full no trade clause.

[Petrey10]

I think 3b is destined for Shaw so anyone they put there will be a short contract. I could see Justin Turner. But more likely it’s Morel, Madrigal and Wisdom platoon. I’m sure Busch will play there a bit but we will find out he doesn’t have what it takes.

we are set at 3b imo.

 

I saw somewhere Bellinger will sign by Friday with Cubs…. Who knows if that’s even close to being true 

[squally1313]

4 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

I think 3b is destined for Shaw so anyone they put there will be a short contract. I could see Justin Turner. But more likely it’s Morel, Madrigal and Wisdom platoon. I’m sure Busch will play there a bit but we will find out he doesn’t have what it takes.

we are set at 3b imo.

 

I saw somewhere Bellinger will sign by Friday with Cubs…. Who knows if that’s even close to being true 

Matt Shaw has 9 walks in his professional career. I hope he’s good too. He should not be impacting current roster decisions. 

[Outshined_One]

Apparently the recent Amazon deal with Diamond didn't specifically include the Guardians.

My inclination is the Guardians will probably be in a holding pattern until this local broadcast situation gets completely ironed out.  Bally Sports was apparently considering dropping the Guardians from local broadcast rights even before the bankruptcy, but I have to wonder if Amazon is trying to nose their way into streaming rights for MLB teams.  That would change the Guardians' financial outlook significantly.

[Petrey10]

1 minute ago, squally1313 said:

Matt Shaw has 9 walks in his professional career. I hope he’s good too. He should not be impacting current roster decisions. 

And yet he had ops over 1000 …. He really didn’t need to walk.

 

im not saying he should sway us big time and play in 2024. But you aren’t going to sign a guy over 3yrs for 3b. Book it. 

[squally1313]

19 minutes ago, Petrey10 said:

And yet he had ops over 1000 …. He really didn’t need to walk.

 

im not saying he should sway us big time and play in 2024. But you aren’t going to sign a guy over 3yrs for 3b. Book it. 

He had an .852 OPS in (again, only) 15 games in AA. Let’s make sure we keep a spot open for Chase Strumpf (901 OPS) too I guess 

[Jason Ross]

I think the answer with how the Cubs will handle Shaw is probably more in the middle. I don't think the Cubs are going to outright block Shaw much. They are clearly high on him, promoting him to Double-A in his draft year. Shaw is clearly working hard at the third base position. I don't think they'd stop from adding someone at 3b on a short term deal or if it's a really, really good player. Jose Ramirez (it's not happening) for sure. Matt Chapman hits that weird area of I can't tell if they'd bring him in on a four+ year contract. The team did mention not blocking prospects and while I think they were talking more about Pete Crow-Armstrong, I think Shaw isn't far from that conversation. I think the Cubs know he's a much better prospect than Chase Strumpf is/was, too. 

 

EDIT: Holy batman did I say "I think" a lot lol. 

[Backtobanks]

Go Big or go home: Wesneski + Mervis + Madrigal + Brown for Kim + Cosgrove + Avila.

[UMFan83]

4 minutes ago, squally1313 said:

He had an .852 OPS in (again, only) 15 games in AA. Let’s make sure we keep a spot open for Chase Strumpf (901 OPS) too I guess 

Heck it kind of bothers me that we're making roster decisions based on Busch even though he's much farther along in his development cycle.  Just feel like we should have more flexibility at 1B in case he struggles.  Don't want to be stuck in another situation like last year with Hosmer/Mancini where it becomes a black hole for us.

I do like Shaw but I agree we shouldn't be holding spots on the roster for him.  That's what a small market club like the Royals would do.

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, UMFan83 said:

Heck it kind of bothers me that we're making roster decisions based on Busch even though he's much farther along in his development cycle.  Just feel like we should have more flexibility at 1B in case he struggles.  Don't want to be stuck in another situation like last year with Hosmer/Mancini where it becomes a black hole for us.

I do like Shaw but I agree we shouldn't be holding spots on the roster for him.  That's what a small market club like the Royals would do.

I'm not sure there's going to be much of an ability to bring in a safety net. You have to figure, a free agent worth his weight is going to want to go somewhere he's going to play and build value on a one year deal. Your Hoskins, Belts, Turners etc aren't going to settle to be the backup. Can't just DH the fallback with Morel being such a questionmark defensively. So you're probably looking at...a Patrick Wisdom type as your fallback. Which, I'd guess internally, that's the fallback, Wisdom. Then Mervis, who I've soured on but he's not a dead prospect yet. There's some hope there yet. 

But I also think the Cubs are pretty confident in Busch. Don't think you make the trade you make if you're not confident. 

I guess I just don't think the Cubs are probably going to be in much of a position to upgrade the fallback over the internal options as is.

[Rcal10]

5 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I'm not sure there's going to be much of an ability to bring in a safety net. You have to figure, a free agent worth his weight is going to want to go somewhere he's going to play and build value on a one year deal. Your Hoskins, Belts, Turners etc aren't going to settle to be the backup. Can't just DH the fallback with Morel being such a questionmark defensively. So you're probably looking at...a Patrick Wisdom type as your fallback. Which, I'd guess internally, that's the fallback, Wisdom. Then Mervis, who I've soured on but he's not a dead prospect yet. There's some hope there yet. 

But I also think the Cubs are pretty confident in Busch. Don't think you make the trade you make if you're not confident. 

I guess I just don't think the Cubs are probably going to be in much of a position to upgrade the fallback over the internal options as is.

And, if they signed Bellinger, though it wouldn’t be ideal, he could be the back up plan. If PCA comes up and hits the ground running or if Taichman gives them steady play in center and Busch does struggle, Bellinger would be the fallback. In that case the Cubs would only need Busch or PCA to be an everyday player with Bellinger filling in for who falters. I think if they got Bellinger the plan would be him in center, but he is insurance if things go bad at 1st, too.

[Bertz]

15 minutes ago, UMFan83 said:

Heck it kind of bothers me that we're making roster decisions based on Busch even though he's much farther along in his development cycle.  Just feel like we should have more flexibility at 1B in case he struggles.  Don't want to be stuck in another situation like last year with Hosmer/Mancini where it becomes a black hole for us.

I do like Shaw but I agree we shouldn't be holding spots on the roster for him.  That's what a small market club like the Royals would do.

The one position the FO seems to be willing to give Morel a vote of confidence on is 1B.  It's a waste of his speed and arm but he's going to be an option there.  His bat is playable there too.  Also Bellinger feels pretty inevitable at this point, so he'd keep the floor at 1B pretty high.

3B and Catcher are the places where things could easily go sideways pretty quickly IMO.

[Rcal10]

31 minutes ago, Bertz said:

The one position the FO seems to be willing to give Morel a vote of confidence on is 1B.  It's a waste of his speed and arm but he's going to be an option there.  His bat is playable there too.  Also Bellinger feels pretty inevitable at this point, so he'd keep the floor at 1B pretty high.

3B and Catcher are the places where things could easily go sideways pretty quickly IMO.

I’m  it too worried about catcher. Gomes is fine and Amaya isn’t a bad back up. 3rd is a concern. Don’t like the idea of any if Madrigal, Wisdom or Mastroboni. I think either something will be done to fill that spot (a trade) or some combination of Busch and/ir Morel surprises us. Catcher only becomes a problem with an injury.