Cubs offseason chit chat...

[chibears55]

Take Nola off your wish list..

https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1726279759804440761?t=vrhuQcGHzVROhP8Pl5awqA&s=19

[ToolDRT]

That works. Was never really a fan of Nola

[Bertz]

Quote

Internally, among players and within the front office, there is an awareness that more trades are on the horizon. That doesn’t mean it will happen all at once. It doesn’t have to be mortgaging the farm system for rental players. Trading for Miguel Montero and Dexter Fowler after the 2014 season proved to be huge moves toward changing expectations and ending the 108-year championship drought. The Cubs will again pursue those types of deals and see where it leads.

As most Mooney articles go, this morning's was mostly a lot of words about nothing.  But the above stood out to me.  We've thought a lot about big trades, but I'm wondering now about stuff that might be better described as medium sized like Fowler and Montero.

[Banedon]

 

[gocubs218]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

As most Mooney articles go, this morning's was mostly a lot of words about nothing.  But the above stood out to me.  We've thought a lot about big trades, but I'm wondering now about stuff that might be better described as medium sized like Fowler and Montero.

I’m guessing/hoping that’s how we find our 3rd baseman for next year. Also some bullpen arms. 

[Jason Ross]

1 hour ago, Bertz said:

As most Mooney articles go, this morning's was mostly a lot of words about nothing.  But the above stood out to me.  We've thought a lot about big trades, but I'm wondering now about stuff that might be better described as medium sized like Fowler and Montero.

Especially if the Cubs snag Ohtani, this seems like a good way to fill out the roster. Players like Matt Mervis, Alexander Canario, Javier Asad, may not  be "huge" Cubs young players/prospects who will greatly impact the 2024 roster, but very well may have real value to teams who are 2-3 years way from success and need to start filling out their roster with capable starting types. The Cubs should be able to these types (either solo or in conjunction with each other) to get pieces they are far more likely to use and rely on in 2024.

Edited November 20, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Rex Buckingham]

1 hour ago, gocubs218 said:

I’m guessing/hoping that’s how we find our 3rd baseman for next year. Also some bullpen arms. 

Went to Fangraphs and looked at 3B w/300+ ABs and got to these guys who might be available before getting into Wisdom/madrigal range (and you might argue that all but Paredes fall into that range)

Isaac Paredes (TB), Jake Burger (MIA), Yoan Moncada (CHW), Ryan McMahon (COL)... didn't look at contracts or really anything other than did they provide more WAR than Wisdom last year and would they be hypothetically "available"

[Tryptamine]

I still think I'd love to give Moncada a shot, see if the Cubs can get him motivated again. 

[CubinNY]

7 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

Went to Fangraphs and looked at 3B w/300+ ABs and got to these guys who might be available before getting into Wisdom/madrigal range (and you might argue that all but Paredes fall into that range)

Isaac Paredes (TB), Jake Burger (MIA), Yoan Moncada (CHW), Ryan McMahon (COL)... didn't look at contracts or really anything other than did they provide more WAR than Wisdom last year and would they be hypothetically "available"

I really like McMahon, but I think the price would be a little steeper than the rest of the names. Anyway, I like Wisdom ok enough. He's going to win some games. He used to have a pretty decent glove too. I'm not sure what happened. I think lack of regular playing time. It's hard to do that when he goes into a death spiral. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by CubinNY

[Rcal10]

7 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

I really like McMahon, but I think the price would be a little steeper than the rest of the names. Anyway, I like Wisdom ok enough. He's going to win some games. He used to have a pretty decent glove too. I'm not sure what happened. I think lack of regular playing time. It's hard to do that when he goes into a death spiral. 

If they can live with Burger’s glove I wouldn’t mind him. Lots of power and years of control. Just not sure about him at 3rd. Another guy, if he can play 3rd, would be Polanco. If the Cubs think he can handle third he might be my top choice because he might not cost as much as Burger, in the way of assets. 
I would rate Polonco 1st, maybe Moncada and then Burger, when taking into account salaries, what yiu lose to get someone and time you can have him. 

[ToolDRT]

 

[Dfan25]

Lance Lynn signs with Cardinals

Reynaldo Lopez to Braves 

[CubinNY]

19 minutes ago, Dfan25 said:

Lance Lynn signs with Cardinals

 

Good sign by the Cardinals. I expect them to have a huge bounce-back year. Not so sure about Marmol though, I figured they would have fired him by now. 

[Irrelevant Dude]

7 minutes ago, CubinNY said:

Good sign by the Cardinals.

Lynn had negative WAR in 2023 and is going to be 37 next year.  I'm not mad about the Cardinals paying him over $10M.

[Jason Ross]

Yeah, Lance Lynn looks toasted. He's getting hit harder, leaving more things in the sweet spot, seeing less swings and misses, more contact against, and the quality of contact is through the roof. He's been kind of a fun guy to watch on the mound, and I know the PN dudes love him as a guy, but 37 year old Lance Lynn wouldn't fill me with hope.

[Tim]

Lance Lynn was objectively awful even after heading to LA last year. If the Dodgers didn't get him straightened out, I wouldn't expect great things with him pitching to Willson.

[gocubs218]

Probably going to go as well as Arrieta coming back to the Cubs in 2021.

[Thusly Boned]

2 hours ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

Lynn had negative WAR in 2023 and is going to be 37 next year.  I'm not mad about the Cardinals paying him over $10M.

Realistically, the Cards need at least two good-very good SP, and Mozeliak said a while back the Cards need "2 1/2" starting pitchers, and if this is one of those, I am more than fine with that. 

If I were a Cards fan, I wouldn't feel great about the message this sends; I would read it as them not being willing to play in the expensive end of the pool (which has been their M.O. with regard to SP).

[Jason Ross]

Just now, XZero77 said:

Realistically, the Cards need at least two good-very good SP, and Mozeliak said a while back the Cards need "2 1/2" starting pitchers, and if this is one of those, I am more than fine with that. 

If I were a Cards fan, I wouldn't feel great about the message this sends; I would read it as them not being willing to play in the expensive end of the pool (which has been their M.O. with regard to SP).

Especially odd on the timing, too. There just doesn't seem a lot going on under the hood of a 37-year-old Lance Lynn that makes you say "This guy on a one year deal, that's the ticket!" enough to jump the line. There's plenty of interesting, upside-y, or sneakily decent SP's on the market, and likely enough that within a few weeks, you can still find 2-3 on good deals that jumping the queue to secure Lance Lynn doesn't feel comforting.

[Thusly Boned]

2 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

Especially odd on the timing, too. There just doesn't seem a lot going on under the hood of a 37-year-old Lance Lynn that makes you say "This guy on a one year deal, that's the ticket!" enough to jump the line. There's plenty of interesting, upside-y, or sneakily decent SP's on the market, and likely enough that within a few weeks, you can still find 2-3 on good deals that jumping the queue to secure Lance Lynn doesn't feel comforting.

Yeah, there are a lot of options on the market, and to jump on Lance Lynn this early suggests to me that they have no intention to be major players in the SP scene. 

If you're Mozeliak and your SP solution is Lynn and Jordan Montgomery or something, you have failed. They either need to spend a lot of money or get creative, and this seems to indicate neither.

Still early, but again, I would not feel good about this start if I were a Cards fan.

[ToolDRT]

3 minutes ago, XZero77 said:

Yeah, there are a lot of options on the market, and to jump on Lance Lynn this early suggests to me that they have no intention to be major players in the SP scene. 

If you're Mozeliak and your SP solution is Lynn and Jordan Montgomery or something, you have failed. They either need to spend a lot of money or get creative, and this seems to indicate neither.

Still early, but again, I would not feel good about this start if I were a Cards fan.

At times, they strike me as a team the places a little too much value on nostalgia. 

[CubinNY]

17 minutes ago, XZero77 said:

Realistically, the Cards need at least two good-very good SP, and Mozeliak said a while back the Cards need "2 1/2" starting pitchers, and if this is one of those, I am more than fine with that. 

If I were a Cards fan, I wouldn't feel great about the message this sends; I would read it as them not being willing to play in the expensive end of the pool (which has been their M.O. with regard to SP).

he's the 1/2.

[Thusly Boned]

1 minute ago, CubinNY said:

he's the 1/2.

Nah, I think the 1/2 is a more traditional, lower cost swingman. Signing Lynn and slotting him into the rotation just smells like Mozeliak move, and is totally in line with how he operates. 

Even if Lynn is the "1/2", I think it's less than they need. They needed two of the better starters on the market, and if this is how they are allocating their funds, I do not see that happening. Despite all their historical success, that is not a franchise that has ever spent real money on FA SP, and they aren't going to have the player capital to win trade wars this offseason.

No matter how you spin it, Lance Lynn is a "settle". Aging, slowing fastball, little upside. But he'll eat some innings.

My prediction is that the "major" additions to STL's rotation are Lynn and one of Gray/Montgomery, which won't be enough.

If they have any sense they'll trade Goldschmidt for SP while he still has value, but I think there's zero chance they do.

 

 

[Tryptamine]

It's still super early, but I'm absolutely dying for some solid rumors on a trade/FA.

[Bertz]

After Lynn, the Cards are $30M south of where they were last year, and I don't know that there's a ton of reason to expect them to exceed last year by much.  My guess is they pull down Sonny Gray and then trade Tyler O'Neil or Dylan Carlson for a younger SP.