Ohtani to Dodgers for an ungodly amount of money

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, Outshined_One said:

Unless there's a pitch lab for infielders to improve velocity on their throws (and knowing the Cubs, maybe there is), I wouldn't set your heart on Shaw at 3B any time soon.

I'll say this: I had the same feelings about Nick Madrigal last season. Prior to 2023, Madrigal finished in the 20th, the 14th and the 22nd percentiles of arm strength. He's a short guy, not a lot of projected growth. And yet, not only was he a +8 DRS at 3b, his arm strength jumped to the 46th percentile. 

The Cubs did some work there and turned someone I was entirely convinced couldn't play 3b and not only made him serviceable, but plus (it's small sample size and it could still be error, but it's what we have to work with) at the position. I'd discount the Cubs in no way shape or for with Matt Shaw at 3b.

[Dfan25]

Latest article from Feisand at mlb.com doesn’t even mention the Cubs on Ohtani .

Dodgers / Angels / Blue Jays were the only mentions .

[ILMindState]

1 hour ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I've been doing some thinking and some sleuthing, and I think I've come to logical conclusion (feel free to tell me I'm just tinfoil-hat-crazy, too). 

Okay, so reports on Saturday were that Ohtani was in San Francisco to meet with the Giants. Monday, it appears as though Ohtani was in Florida with the Jays. But then you have Sunday...kind of a big blank day, no? Perhaps Ohtani took in some NFL football, a beer, and hanging out with friends, but I have a feeling that didn't happen. As well, there was the report that teams were coming to LA to meet with Ohtani for final meetings, but considering he went to SF and Toronto after (if reports are correct) it seems weird that would be the case, So maybe...what if it wasn't all teams on Saturday making their final pitch/meetings/tours of facilities but the two LA teams (one of which was a team he didn't need to tour, because, he's been an Angel for half a decade). Geographically, if Ohtani were making his tour around the other clubs, it would make sense that he would go from LA to SF, and this feels like it could be accomplished in a single day, like...Saturday. But again...Sunday....It'd make a lot of sense if Ohtani did something Sunday. And, again, thinking logically, planning a trip, geographically around the nation, well Chicago just so happens to be between San Francisco and Florida, and would have made quite the logical stopping place for a visit, wouldn't it have? And conspicuously, Jed Hoyer wasn't in Nashville Sunday. Neither was Craig Counsell. It really wouldn't make a ton of sense if they're both still in LA (Sunday and Monday) if they were meeting with him on Saturday. We know he's not in LA any more; he was in Florida Monday.

What I'm trying to get at is this: I think Shohei Ohtani was in Chicago Sunday. And I think the Cubs got him in and out without any leaks. Considering the Cubs were capable of doing this with Seiya Suzuki and Craig Counsell, it would track based on history. I could be way off, and fair, I'm going off logic/guessing. Both his trips to Toronto and San Francisco ended up getting reported/leaked in some way or fashion. If he got in and out of Chicago with zero leaks, I wonder how this helps on the final choice. If Ohtani is truly worrisome of leaks and quietness, which, if he' visiting teams in their cities during the Winter Meetings, you could argue is another reason to believe that, then the Cubs making this happen could help.

 

Edit: I'd also like to point out, the Cubs may have met in Arizona (someone else suggested this to me elsewhere, credit to him). Closer to the West Coast, easier to keep quiet. But regardless, I think very much so that the Cubs had their sit down with Ohtani on Sunday.

This makes sense. I was at Winter Wonderland on Sunday and I saw people there of of Asian decent. Coincidence????

[ILMindState]

8 hours ago, UMFan83 said:

Blue Jays met with Ohtani in FL today

 

Leaking penalty, on the offense.  This penalty will be assessed at the spot of the foul.

[Tim]

7 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

It’s less his arm and more that he’s a bit of a plodder at the hot corner. 

I’m legit looking forward to 2024 blowing up the assumed/presumed hierarchy of Cubs prospects. That belief and the one that Ohtani’s basically been a Cubs since the summer if not earlier is propping me up rn 

Can you show any reference for him being a "plodder" relative to most 3B?

[CubinNY]

Just now, Tim said:

Can you show any reference for him being a "plodder" relative to most 3B?

and what is a plodder on defenes?

[Rcal10]

25 minutes ago, Dfan25 said:

Latest article from Feisand at mlb.com doesn’t even mention the Cubs on Ohtani .

Dodgers / Angels / Blue Jays were the only mentions .

Maybe this is why things are popping up with Hoskins, Chapman and Bellinger. I have lost hope in an Ohtani signing for the Cubs. 

[Tim]

Shaw was on a 60+SB / 162 pace in his first season in the minors. Stolen bases aren't a be-all measurement of "plodding" defenders, but he's absolutely got a decent amount of athleticism and quickness to his profile.

[We Got The Whole 9]

2 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

It’s less his arm and more that he’s a bit of a plodder at the hot corner. 

I’m legit looking forward to 2024 blowing up the assumed/presumed hierarchy of Cubs prospects. That belief and the one that Ohtani’s basically been a Cubs since the summer if not earlier is propping me up rn 

We get it, Tom. You are the Grand Poobah of prospects. 

[Dfan25]

10 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Maybe this is why things are popping up with Hoskins, Chapman and Bellinger. I have lost hope in an Ohtani signing for the Cubs. 

Yeah I think it’s over with Ohtani . When you see these articles with major league sources saying x amount of teams are still firmly in the mix and the Cubs don’t get mentioned , it isn’t going to happen .

They will have a difficult time putting an offense together , especially from the left side . Their only LHH is Happ.

[Illiterate Scholar]

Mooney wrote last night/early this morning that the focus is still on Ohtani. If he's not dumping cold water on it then I'd guess they're still involved. 

[Jason Ross]

14 minutes ago, Dfan25 said:

Yeah I think it’s over with Ohtani . When you see these articles with major league sources saying x amount of teams are still firmly in the mix and the Cubs don’t get mentioned , it isn’t going to happen .

They will have a difficult time putting an offense together , especially from the left side . Their only LHH is Happ.

I just don't think we should be doing this. No one was mentioning the Cubs with Seiya Suzuki most of the winter. They got him. No one saw Counsell. They got him. I know we are used to seeing smoke and thinking fire, but this is not one where I think anyone in the media knows anything. 

I'm not saying we are definitely getting Ohtani, or anything of the ilk, just that...I don't think we need to be defeatest on this simply because people like Morosi (who is clearly guessing) isn't listing the Cubs. Remember, this is supposed to be a leak-free pursuit. It would go to seem that the media not hearing the Cubs would remain a good thing. We have an uphill battle, but I firmly believe the Cubs are still right in this thing.

Edited December 5, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Rcal10]

14 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I just don't think we should be doing this. No one was mentioning the Cubs with Seiya Suzuki most of the winter. They got him. No one saw Counsell. They got him. I know we are used to seeing smoke and thinking fire, but this is not one where I think anyone in the media knows anything. 

I'm not saying we are definitely getting Ohtani, or anything of the ilk, just that...I don't think we need to be defeatest on this simply because people like Morosi (who is clearly guessing) isn't listing the Cubs. Remember, this is supposed to be a leak-free pursuit. It would go to seem that the media not hearing the Cubs would remain a good thing. We have an uphill battle, but I firmly believe the Cubs are still right in this thing.

Love the optimism and hope the hell you are right that they are still in. But I don’t think they are. Love to be proven wrong. 

[Tim]

6 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Ngl I enjoy that this was earned  for suggesting over the past 3 years maybe we don’t know everything about a bunch of teens and shiny news off a global pandemic, can be a little more egalitarian, and the refrain is “nooooo thank you stop being so arrogant knowitall the script has been leaked” 

 

Tom, the reaction you get is much more about the attitude (and the snark) than it is about the contrary opinions. I don't know about everyone else, but I like that you make me think about guys like Murray and Gallardo. We don't have to agree - and in many ways it is better if we don't. 

[CubbyBlue2008]

26 minutes ago, Dfan25 said:

Yeah I think it’s over with Ohtani . When you see these articles with major league sources saying x amount of teams are still firmly in the mix and the Cubs don’t get mentioned , it isn’t going to happen .

They will have a difficult time putting an offense together , especially from the left side . Their only LHH is Happ.

That could also just be because the reporters know he met with those teams, but don’t know about the Cubs meeting, and are just creating a list based on visits.

[ILMindState]

13 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I just don't think we should be doing this. No one was mentioning the Cubs with Seiya Suzuki most of the winter. They got him. No one saw Counsell. They got him. I know we are used to seeing smoke and thinking fire, but this is not one where I think anyone in the media knows anything. 

I'm not saying we are definitely getting Ohtani, or anything of the ilk, just that...I don't think we need to be defeatest on this simply because people like Morosi (who is clearly guessing) isn't listing the Cubs. Remember, this is supposed to be a leak-free pursuit. It would go to seem that the media not hearing the Cubs would remain a good thing. We have an uphill battle, but I firmly believe the Cubs are still right in this thing.

Rosenthal mentioned the Cubs were still involved in the article he wrote about the Jays meeting. Nobody really knows anything, it's all just guessing and opinions.

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, 1908_Cubs said:

I've been doing some thinking and some sleuthing, and I think I've come to logical conclusion (feel free to tell me I'm just tinfoil-hat-crazy, too). 

Okay, so reports on Saturday were that Ohtani was in San Francisco to meet with the Giants. Monday, it appears as though Ohtani was in Florida with the Jays. But then you have Sunday...kind of a big blank day, no? Perhaps Ohtani took in some NFL football, a beer, and hanging out with friends, but I have a feeling that didn't happen. As well, there was the report that teams were coming to LA to meet with Ohtani for final meetings, but considering he went to SF and Toronto after (if reports are correct) it seems weird that would be the case, So maybe...what if it wasn't all teams on Saturday making their final pitch/meetings/tours of facilities but the two LA teams (one of which was a team he didn't need to tour, because, he's been an Angel for half a decade). Geographically, if Ohtani were making his tour around the other clubs, it would make sense that he would go from LA to SF, and this feels like it could be accomplished in a single day, like...Saturday. But again...Sunday....It'd make a lot of sense if Ohtani did something Sunday. And, again, thinking logically, planning a trip, geographically around the nation, well Chicago just so happens to be between San Francisco and Florida, and would have made quite the logical stopping place for a visit, wouldn't it have? And conspicuously, Jed Hoyer wasn't in Nashville Sunday. Neither was Craig Counsell. It really wouldn't make a ton of sense if they're both still in LA (Sunday and Monday) if they were meeting with him on Saturday. We know he's not in LA any more; he was in Florida Monday.

What I'm trying to get at is this: I think Shohei Ohtani was in Chicago Sunday. And I think the Cubs got him in and out without any leaks. Considering the Cubs were capable of doing this with Seiya Suzuki and Craig Counsell, it would track based on history. I could be way off, and fair, I'm going off logic/guessing. Both his trips to Toronto and San Francisco ended up getting reported/leaked in some way or fashion. If he got in and out of Chicago with zero leaks, I wonder how this helps on the final choice. If Ohtani is truly worrisome of leaks and quietness, which, if he' visiting teams in their cities during the Winter Meetings, you could argue is another reason to believe that, then the Cubs making this happen could help.

 

Edit: I'd also like to point out, the Cubs may have met in Arizona (someone else suggested this to me elsewhere, credit to him). Closer to the West Coast, easier to keep quiet. But regardless, I think very much so that the Cubs had their sit down with Ohtani on Sunday.

My thought is he probably went to Wrigley or will if it hasn't happened.  He may not have gone to Toronto because he has to go through customs and has been to the city/ stadium many times, unlike Wrigley.  Much, much harder e.g. virtually impossible to go through customs undetected than a private domestic flight.

[Jason Ross]

16 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Love the optimism and hope the hell you are right that they are still in. But I don’t think they are. Love to be proven wrong. 

With no rudeness involved, my question would be "why do you think the Cubs aren't even in any more"? Yes, people like Bob Nightengale and Jon Morosi are not mentioning the Cubs. People like Mooney and Rosenthal claim the Cubs are still in. Overall, it's been said by a few that no one really knows what's happening with Ohtani and it's all just speculation regardless. I really want to be clear: I'm not optimistic, I think the Cubs are not the favorite, and this is an uphill battle. I just think the "woe is me, the Cubs are out" thing some are going with is...on the extreme side. I just think we need to take a step back, shrug it out, and say "well, I don't think we know right now and likely won't until the end"

Edited December 5, 2023 by 1908_Cubs

[Jason Ross]

Just now, Stratos said:

My thought is he probably went to Wrigley or will if it hasn't happened.  He may not have gone to Toronto because he has to go through customs and has been to the city/ stadium many times, unlike Wrigley.  Much, much harder e.g. virtually impossible to go through customs undetected than a private domestic flight.

He wasn't in Toronto. He was in Florida at their ST camp.

[17 Seconds]

i don't think the likelihood of the cubs getting ohtani has changed at all in the last couple weeks

[David]

24 minutes ago, 1908_Cubs said:

With no rudeness involved, my question would be "why do you think the Cubs aren't even in any more"? Yes, people like Bob Nightengale and Jon Morosi are not mentioning the Cubs. People like Mooney and Rosenthal claim the Cubs are still in. Overall, it's been said by a few that no one really knows what's happening with Ohtani and it's all just speculation regardless. I really want to be clear: I'm not optimistic, I think the Cubs are not the favorite, and this is an uphill battle. I just think the "woe is me, the Cubs are out" thing some are going with is...on the extreme side. I just think we need to take a step back, shrug it out, and say "well, I don't think we know right now and likely won't until the end"

It's a defense mechanism for some people to be assume bad outcomes.

[17 Seconds]

there haven't been any rumors for the dodgers either. i think the cubs and la are still the most likely outcomes, with toronto and the angels in the next tier.

i still would take the dodgers over the field

Edited December 5, 2023 by 17 Seconds

[Rcal10]

5 minutes ago, David said:

It's a defense mechanism for some people to be assume bad outcomes.

That is entirely possible. There was a time I was very optimistic on him. I am  not there any longer. When I was very optimistic that was probably as irrational as my negative feeling on him now. But that is where I am at. 

[CubinNY]

23 minutes ago, 17 Seconds said:

i don't think the likelihood of the cubs getting ohtani has changed at all in the last couple weeks

Firmly in this camp. Apparently, they said no leaks, so there have been no leaks. How is it that leaks are coming from SF and Toronto? I don't get it. 

I think the chances he signs with the Cubs are relatively low and have always thought that. 

[17 Seconds]

55% dodgers

20% cubs

25% everyone else