Shohei Ohtani Signs with the Angels

[David]

I have no doubt the FO is figuring out every angle to get this done. But get it horsefeathering done Theo, whether it's a promise to rip up his measly contract within a year and give him a $100-200 million new contract, access to a secret TD Ameritrade account set up by Ricketts with millions in it for his disposal, or whatever. Just get it horsefeathering done.

 

i've read a couple of posts on this page now alluding to something like this...is there some report i missed where this is being talked about under the table even though it's against the rules or whatever?

 

Not only is it against the rules, MLB has been proactive in letting teams know what the potential punishments would be:

 

Baseball America[/url]"]So, let's say Shohei Otani were to become available to MLB teams after this season. Since he would be subject to the international bonus pools, a team by rule can only offer him a minor league contract with a signing bonus, and it would be against league rules to have a handshake deal to deliver him a major league contract after he signs.

 

The punishments for bonus pool circumvention, according to the CBA, include:

 

• A ban on international signings of up to one year

• Or a team having its bonus pool decreased by up to 50 percent for up to five years.

 

those punishments are totally worth it

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

i've read a couple of posts on this page now alluding to something like this...is there some report i missed where this is being talked about under the table even though it's against the rules or whatever?

 

Not only is it against the rules, MLB has been proactive in letting teams know what the potential punishments would be:

 

Baseball America[/url]"]So, let's say Shohei Otani were to become available to MLB teams after this season. Since he would be subject to the international bonus pools, a team by rule can only offer him a minor league contract with a signing bonus, and it would be against league rules to have a handshake deal to deliver him a major league contract after he signs.

 

The punishments for bonus pool circumvention, according to the CBA, include:

 

• A ban on international signings of up to one year

• Or a team having its bonus pool decreased by up to 50 percent for up to five years.

 

those punishments are totally worth it

 

Agreed. Obviously they could do something tougher.

[LeonDurham]

he was probably talking about good players

 

 

I'm just saying. Chicago is a great city. Great sports town. Grew up there. But I've lived on both the East and West coast since there.

 

Chicago is just not necessarily a city where people all over the world want to go to live.

 

If I'm a betting man, I'd bet Dodgers or Yankees.

 

Wait are you this dude?

 

Nope. But I will say that I've lived in the Bay Area and NYC and much prefer living in either to Chicago. I'm loyal to the sports teams though.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Adam: It has been speculated that Otani’s free agency will be a situation “where money almost literally isn’t a factor,” due to the new signing rules. But the difference between $300k and $10mil is still a lot of money, even for Otani, right?

 

Keith Law: Of course it is. Two thoughts on Otani: One, I saw absolutely nothing this week to indicate that he’s any more likely to be posted next month than he was a few days ago. There was one completely unsourced report out of Japan … and that’s it. He may very well come over, but this was a non-story. Two, a team can sign Otani to a short-term deal with a forced non-tender clause, which most NPB free agents had in their contracts, so they’d become MLB free agents after just three or four years here. Hell, if I were GM of a contender with the cap room, I’d offer Otani one year at the maximum allowed salary and agree to nontender him at the end of the year.

 

Hinkie: Can you please explain what MLB means when it says it “intends to be vigilant in enforcing the rules and will scrutinize any efforts to skirt them” when it comes to the Shohei Otani Sweepstakes. Is this even serious or will some team still have an “under the table” long term arrangement with Otani ?

 

Keith Law: No idea how MLB can stop anyone who doesn’t explicitly violate the CBA.

[UMFan83]

Adam: It has been speculated that Otani’s free agency will be a situation “where money almost literally isn’t a factor,” due to the new signing rules. But the difference between $300k and $10mil is still a lot of money, even for Otani, right?

 

Keith Law: Of course it is. Two thoughts on Otani: One, I saw absolutely nothing this week to indicate that he’s any more likely to be posted next month than he was a few days ago. There was one completely unsourced report out of Japan … and that’s it. He may very well come over, but this was a non-story. Two, a team can sign Otani to a short-term deal with a forced non-tender clause, which most NPB free agents had in their contracts, so they’d become MLB free agents after just three or four years here. Hell, if I were GM of a contender with the cap room, I’d offer Otani one year at the maximum allowed salary and agree to nontender him at the end of the year.

 

Hinkie: Can you please explain what MLB means when it says it “intends to be vigilant in enforcing the rules and will scrutinize any efforts to skirt them” when it comes to the Shohei Otani Sweepstakes. Is this even serious or will some team still have an “under the table” long term arrangement with Otani ?

 

Keith Law: No idea how MLB can stop anyone who doesn’t explicitly violate the CBA.

 

Different sport but why don't you ask Ilya Kovalchuk about that? I'm pretty sure there was no CBA violation there, but the NHL had the right to void any contract that was deemed to be taking advantage of a loophole to circumvent the rules. I would assume the MLB has a similar clause but I could be wrong.

 

That said, if there is anyone that is spending 20 hours of day pouring over the CBA looking for a loophole they can exploit, its Theo N. Epstein

[Bull]

Adam: It has been speculated that Otani’s free agency will be a situation “where money almost literally isn’t a factor,” due to the new signing rules. But the difference between $300k and $10mil is still a lot of money, even for Otani, right?

 

Keith Law: Of course it is. Two thoughts on Otani: One, I saw absolutely nothing this week to indicate that he’s any more likely to be posted next month than he was a few days ago. There was one completely unsourced report out of Japan … and that’s it. He may very well come over, but this was a non-story. Two, a team can sign Otani to a short-term deal with a forced non-tender clause, which most NPB free agents had in their contracts, so they’d become MLB free agents after just three or four years here. Hell, if I were GM of a contender with the cap room, I’d offer Otani one year at the maximum allowed salary and agree to nontender him at the end of the year.

 

Hinkie: Can you please explain what MLB means when it says it “intends to be vigilant in enforcing the rules and will scrutinize any efforts to skirt them” when it comes to the Shohei Otani Sweepstakes. Is this even serious or will some team still have an “under the table” long term arrangement with Otani ?

 

Keith Law: No idea how MLB can stop anyone who doesn’t explicitly violate the CBA.

 

Different sport but why don't you ask Ilya Kovalchuk about that? I'm pretty sure there was no CBA violation there, but the NHL had the right to void any contract that was deemed to be taking advantage of a loophole to circumvent the rules. I would assume the MLB has a similar clause but I could be wrong.

 

That said, if there is anyone that is spending 20 hours of day pouring over the CBA looking for a loophole they can exploit, its Theo N. Epstein

 

bolded should read: "...there is anyone who has entire rooms full of people spending 20 hours a day pouring over the CBA looking for a loophole..."

[Sammy Sofa]

bolded should read: "...there is anyone who has entire rooms full of people spending 20 hours a day pouring over the CBA looking for a loophole..."

 

Yeah, Theo does only one type of pouring.

[Bull]

bolded should read: "...there is anyone who has entire rooms full of people spending 20 hours a day pouring over the CBA looking for a loophole..."

 

Yeah, Theo does only one type of pouring.

 

should be poring anyway, right?

[Sammy Sofa]

bolded should read: "...there is anyone who has entire rooms full of people spending 20 hours a day pouring over the CBA looking for a loophole..."

 

Yeah, Theo does only one type of pouring.

 

should be poring anyway, right?

 

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Buster Olney[/url]"]A theory floated is that the team that lands Otani could circumvent the financial limitations in place by assuring the player that they won’t tender him a contract after the first or second season, allowing Otani to become a free agent -- with a prenegotiated deal to follow with the team that cut him free. But sources indicate that Major League Baseball would view that as an obvious attempt to effectively break the rules and would come down hard on Otani’s MLB team. “Because there’s no reasonable logic to failing to tender a contract to a young star player other than to get around the rules,” said one official.

 

Otani’s situation will be highly scrutinized and commissioner Rob Manfred has made it known he wants the integrity of the current international-signing system to be honored.

 

“Otani is a great player,” Manfred said the other day. “We're always interested in having great players in Major League Baseball. From my perspective, I'm more concerned about having the right, durable system than whether a player comes this year or two years from now."

 

Some evaluators believe that whoever Otani picks to serve as his agent will have to play a crucial role, because that agent may have to arrange an understanding of how the player can recoup his value after 2019, when the rules would allow him to lock in a long-term contract. That kind of off-the-record deal-making is against baseball’s rules, but as one official said, “Let’s not be naïve. ... You’ll need an agent with the relationships to get that done.”

[mul21]

Can't the team essentially pay him whatever they want after that first year? Bryant is getting a lot more than he has to and it's a series of one year contracts even before arbitration right? I don't see why the team wouldn't be allowed to deem him valuable in their eyes and give him significant raises each year after the first.

[LeonDurham]

Unless there's a clever way to circumvent the rules, he will not be playing in the MLB. Nobody is dumb enough to leave 9 figures on the table over 2 years.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

what if he actually sucks?

[davell]

what if he actually sucks?

 

I'm much more concerned about injury, than him sucking.

[Agony and Ivy]

Unless there's a clever way to circumvent the rules, he will not be playing in the MLB. Nobody is dumb enough to leave 9 figures on the table over 2 years.

 

He's coming over. Also, no team will have more than $3.5m to offer him as a signing bonus, so this really isn't about money.

[LeonDurham]

Unless there's a clever way to circumvent the rules, he will not be playing in the MLB. Nobody is dumb enough to leave 9 figures on the table over 2 years.

 

He's coming over. Also, no team will have more than $3.5m to offer him as a signing bonus, so this really isn't about money.

 

 

Um yeah. I'll believe it when I see it. It's always about money. Unless there is some loophole to be found, it will cost him hundreds of millions of dollars to come over 2 years earlier. It's not like KD or LeBron taking $5 million less. This dude would literally be paying $100 million for 2 years.

 

I don't know this guy. But when you hear stuff like "its not about money", "you can live well on $3 million". I don't need to know this guy. I know people act in their own self interest. It's like predicting someone is going to walk off a cliff. You wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. Nobody would do it. Including this guy.

[Agony and Ivy]

Unless there's a clever way to circumvent the rules, he will not be playing in the MLB. Nobody is dumb enough to leave 9 figures on the table over 2 years.

 

He's coming over. Also, no team will have more than $3.5m to offer him as a signing bonus, so this really isn't about money.

 

 

Um yeah. I'll believe it when I see it. It's always about money. Unless there is some loophole to be found, it will cost him hundreds of millions of dollars to come over 2 years earlier. It's not like KD or LeBron taking $5 million less. This dude would literally be paying $100 million for 2 years.

 

I don't know this guy. But when you hear stuff like "its not about money", "you can live well on $3 million". I don't need to know this guy. I know people act in their own self interest. It's like predicting someone is going to walk off a cliff. You wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. Nobody would do it. Including this guy.

 

There's no reason for the Nippon-Ham Fighters to come out and say they're going to post him per his request. Nobody gains any leverage by doing that so it wouldn't make sense to put it out there like that. What it does do is allow teams to plan their pitches for him Dave Cameron's piece on how it may go down is probably a good place to start.

 

Personally, I wouldn't voluntarily give up that kind of money, but sometimes when you're the best of the best at something you want to put your wares up against the other rest of the best in the world. Plus, following the plan outlined in Cameron's article he's not sacrificing that generational wealth.

[Bull]

Unless there's a clever way to circumvent the rules, he will not be playing in the MLB. Nobody is dumb enough to leave 9 figures on the table over 2 years.

 

He's coming over. Also, no team will have more than $3.5m to offer him as a signing bonus, so this really isn't about money.

 

 

Um yeah. I'll believe it when I see it. It's always about money. Unless there is some loophole to be found, it will cost him hundreds of millions of dollars to come over 2 years earlier. It's not like KD or LeBron taking $5 million less. This dude would literally be paying $100 million for 2 years.

 

I don't know this guy. But when you hear stuff like "its not about money", "you can live well on $3 million". I don't need to know this guy. I know people act in their own self interest. It's like predicting someone is going to walk off a cliff. You wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. Nobody would do it. Including this guy.

 

Is he really getting more money by waiting though? I'm honestly asking.

 

His salary in Japan this year is the equivalent of 2.7million USD. The highest salary over there in 2015 was 4.2. He's not making more than the 3.5 million to stay, why stay? He's NOT leaving 100million on the table. In fact he gets it a year EARLIER if he comes now. The chance of injury can't be that much different. Unless you think you might fail here, and we all know that all pro athletes are invincible and all powerful.

 

But seriously, the only reason to stay in Japan is if you think you might fail in the US. He might, but he can't imagine that possibility. He's coming.

[CubColtPacer]

 

He's coming over. Also, no team will have more than $3.5m to offer him as a signing bonus, so this really isn't about money.

 

 

Um yeah. I'll believe it when I see it. It's always about money. Unless there is some loophole to be found, it will cost him hundreds of millions of dollars to come over 2 years earlier. It's not like KD or LeBron taking $5 million less. This dude would literally be paying $100 million for 2 years.

 

I don't know this guy. But when you hear stuff like "its not about money", "you can live well on $3 million". I don't need to know this guy. I know people act in their own self interest. It's like predicting someone is going to walk off a cliff. You wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. Nobody would do it. Including this guy.

 

Is he really getting more money by waiting though? I'm honestly asking.

 

His salary in Japan this year is the equivalent of 2.7million USD. The highest salary over there in 2015 was 4.2. He's not making more than the 3.5 million to stay, why stay? He's NOT leaving 100million on the table. In fact he gets it a year EARLIER if he comes now. The chance of injury can't be that much different. Unless you think you might fail here, and we all know that all pro athletes are invincible and all powerful.

 

But seriously, the only reason to stay in Japan is if you think you might fail in the US. He might, but he can't imagine that possibility. He's coming.

 

If he waits two years, he gets to be a free agent right when he comes over. If he comes now unless there is some rule skirting going on, he doesn't get to be a free agent for six years. He gets the big money way earlier by waiting. He wouldn't even be to his arbitration years if he came now when he could be a free agent by waiting.

[jersey cubs fan]

If he waits two years, he gets to be a free agent right when he comes over. If he comes now unless there is some rule skirting going on, he doesn't get to be a free agent for six years. He gets the big money way earlier by waiting. He wouldn't even be to his arbitration years if he came now when he could be a free agent by waiting.

Can he not sign a 1-year deal with a guaranteed non-tender which would make him a free agent his 2nd year?

[Bull]

If he waits two years, he gets to be a free agent right when he comes over. If he comes now unless there is some rule skirting going on, he doesn't get to be a free agent for six years. He gets the big money way earlier by waiting. He wouldn't even be to his arbitration years if he came now when he could be a free agent by waiting.

Can he not sign a 1-year deal with a guaranteed non-tender which would make him a free agent his 2nd year?

 

absolutely.

 

That's my point above. Its not 2 of big league money vs. 6 of league minimum/arb. It's two of about 3M then the big money vs. 1 of 3M then the big money.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Indicators are that any non-tender shenanigans would be seen as circumventing the rules and MLB would hammer that team.

[CubColtPacer]

If he waits two years, he gets to be a free agent right when he comes over. If he comes now unless there is some rule skirting going on, he doesn't get to be a free agent for six years. He gets the big money way earlier by waiting. He wouldn't even be to his arbitration years if he came now when he could be a free agent by waiting.

Can he not sign a 1-year deal with a guaranteed non-tender which would make him a free agent his 2nd year?

 

The Olney article says that MLB is already viewing that as an obvious way to get around the rules and would punish the team accordingly.

 

I think the reason for that is because he'll be signing a minor league contract this fall, and then when he makes the team it will move over to a minimum major league contract. So Otani can't insist on an opt out after year 1 with that sort of arrangement. Otani has no leverage, so if the team decides to non-tender him instead of paying him the minimum salary MLB is going to step in and say there had to be a prior agreement to do that.

[Banedon]

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[David]

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