General Baseball Chit-Chat Thread

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

A big reason I think its Jake was that I seem to remember him giving some kind of quote earlier in the off season specifically about "his numbers" over the past three years. I think its his mantra.

[Cubswin11]

Jake has “only” made a little more than $30 million in his career, I’m guessing he has an offer out there for at least double that in guaranteed money. While that would likely disappoint him and maybe he’s being stubborn..... I don’t think he’d be dumb enough to risk it and not take that at the end of the day, especially if he’s given an opt out or 2.

[David]

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[Sammy Sofa]

Those jerseys are the most 90's things ever.

[Cubswin11]

Players union rejected the league’s pace of play proposal (personally I’m glad)........ but in talks about it the players brought up bringing back bullpen carts and apparently it didn't get far....... who could be against bringing back these glorious things?!?!?!

 

http://www.mlb.com/images/8/1/2/242028812/071317_bullpen_cars_orioles_mid_23u9ygaz.gif

http://www.mlb.com/images/8/3/0/242028830/071317_bullpen_cars_comp_mid_ltyhg01a.gif

[Cubswin11]

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[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sounds good to me. The stricter proposal is preferable anyway(and the reset for stepping off the rubber is a huge loophole either way), and the union gets to show they're pissed off and project that they're going to fight the owners on other things which should be much more consequential than the pace of play stuff which should make games better.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

http://www.clickhole.com/slideshow/find-out-what-colin-powell-giancarlo-stanton-mandy-7251#slide2

[Sammy Sofa]

I thought this was an interesting/ominous take at the shifting economics within baseball, and how it's happening at the cost of the players. Definitely has me worried they'll be cruising for another big labor dispute a la the strike sooner rather than later:

 

https://deadspin.com/the-mlbpa-is-failing-its-players-1822305159

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I thought this was an interesting/ominous take at the shifting economics within baseball, and how it's happening at the cost of the players. Definitely has me worried they'll be cruising for another big labor dispute a la the strike sooner rather than later:

 

https://deadspin.com/the-mlbpa-is-failing-its-players-1822305159

 

Maybe future free agent classes will help take the sting out by 2020, but early indications are the union is going to be about 1000% more angry next time around. It's probably worth assuming a work stoppage of some sort at this point.

[BigbadB]

Congrats to my fellow Limestone High School alumni Jim Thome for being voted into the MLB Hall of Fame!

[minnesotacubsfan]

horsefeathering horsefeathers: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/zmqdbw/some-jerk-tore-up-the-field-from-field-of-dreams

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

horsefeathering horsefeathers: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/zmqdbw/some-jerk-tore-up-the-field-from-field-of-dreams

[We Got The Whole 9]

Boras says MLB should step in and prevent teams from tanking. He says their intent to win should be treated similarly to the Black Sox.

 

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," he said. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fanbases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."

 

Some of the remaining FA are talking about holding their own spring training together.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Proven Veteran]

Boras says MLB should step in and prevent teams from tanking. He says their intent to win should be treated similarly to the Black Sox.

 

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," he said. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fanbases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."

 

Some of the remaining FA are talking about holding their own spring training together.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

Kinda hard to say something like this when the Cubs and Astros have won the last two World Series doing exactly this.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

Boras says MLB should step in and prevent teams from tanking. He says their intent to win should be treated similarly to the Black Sox.

 

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," he said. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fanbases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."

 

Some of the remaining FA are talking about holding their own spring training together.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

Kinda hard to say something like this when the Cubs and Astros have won the last two World Series doing exactly this.

 

and being terrible netted the nationals harper and strasburg.

[jersey cubs fan]

Boras says MLB should step in and prevent teams from tanking. He says their intent to win should be treated similarly to the Black Sox.

 

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," he said. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fanbases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."

 

Some of the remaining FA are talking about holding their own spring training together.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

Kinda hard to say something like this when the Cubs and Astros have won the last two World Series doing exactly this.

Not at all. The problem is not that tanking hurts you, the problem is incentivizing tanking is bad for the sport. And I believe that is absolutly true. You have 5-6 teams actively tanking right now, and tanking is a multi year process. It's really bad for the concept of professional sport.

[David]

Boras says MLB should step in and prevent teams from tanking. He says their intent to win should be treated similarly to the Black Sox.

 

"We kicked people out of the game when they tried to not win," he said. "We have to get rid of the noncompetitive cancer. We can't go to our fanbases and sell the promise of losing to win later. That is destructive to our sport because it has removed one-third of the competition."

 

Some of the remaining FA are talking about holding their own spring training together.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

Kinda hard to say something like this when the Cubs and Astros have won the last two World Series doing exactly this.

 

He didn't say it's not an effective strategy. He said it's bad for the game. And I don't really disagree. A large portion of the teams are complete trash and aren't making any effort to win.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's not really in many of those teams' benefit to go spend on Moustakas or Arrieta either though. 'Tanking' gets a bad rap for what everyone intuitively knows is true, not everyone is going to be competitive and some teams are much more depleted of talent, so it makes sense for some teams to try to make future seasons better instead. The problem is that the way to make future seasons better at the moment is to be as bad as possible to maximize your draft pool and to give opportunities for young players to overachieve, neither of which are aligned with actually spending money.

 

Fix draft/international pools(eliminate them, lottery them like the NBA, fold them into a slightly higher Luxury Tax number so teams can ratio their spending that way if they want), and make it easier for money to go to younger players instead of 30+ free agents(close service time loopholes, restricted FA instead of arbitration, fewer years to FA, etc) and you'll be in a much better place. But none of those things can change today or probably before 2020 though.

[jersey cubs fan]

It's not really in many of those teams' benefit to go spend on Moustakas or Arrieta either though. 'Tanking' gets a bad rap for what everyone intuitively knows is true, not everyone is going to be competitive and some teams are much more depleted of talent, so it makes sense for some teams to try to make future seasons better instead. The problem is that the way to make future seasons better at the moment is to be as bad as possible to maximize your draft pool and to give opportunities for young players to overachieve, neither of which are aligned with actually spending money. Fix draft/international pools(eliminate them, lottery them like the NBA, fold them into a slightly higher Luxury Tax number so teams can ratio their spending that way if they want), and make it easier for money to go to younger players instead of 30+ free agents(close service time loopholes, restricted FA instead of arbitration, fewer years to FA, etc) and you'll be in a much better place. But none of those things can change today or probably before 2020 though.

It's not a bad rap to criticize billion dollar professional sports teams for trying to lose games.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

It's not really in many of those teams' benefit to go spend on Moustakas or Arrieta either though. 'Tanking' gets a bad rap for what everyone intuitively knows is true, not everyone is going to be competitive and some teams are much more depleted of talent, so it makes sense for some teams to try to make future seasons better instead. The problem is that the way to make future seasons better at the moment is to be as bad as possible to maximize your draft pool and to give opportunities for young players to overachieve, neither of which are aligned with actually spending money. Fix draft/international pools(eliminate them, lottery them like the NBA, fold them into a slightly higher Luxury Tax number so teams can ratio their spending that way if they want), and make it easier for money to go to younger players instead of 30+ free agents(close service time loopholes, restricted FA instead of arbitration, fewer years to FA, etc) and you'll be in a much better place. But none of those things can change today or probably before 2020 though.

It's not a bad rap to criticize billion dollar professional sports teams for trying to lose games.

 

The 2012-2013 Cubs were not going to be playoff caliber no matter what spending they did, and given the way the CBA is structured spending more may have made it take longer to be competitive. Same thing more recently with the Phillies. Be pissed at the owners as a group for the CBA, and there's situations like the Marlins, Pirates, etc where owners are just cheap and worthy of criticism, but the blanket 'they're billionaires they need to spend rabble rabble' doesn't land for me if your actual hope is the team becomes more competitive.

[CubColtPacer]

Teams are in the business of selling hope. That used to be accomplished in flashy free agent signings. Go sign a player or two, get the fans excited, and if you need to sell off in July, rinse and repeat. Fans are getting too smart for that strategy. And teams can sell hope in other ways now, because minor league information is much easier to get than it used to be. So it totally makes sense for teams to tank and sell hope that way.

 

Plus, and some may disagree, but I think fans care even more now about wanting their team in the hunt for a title. Mediocre teams that rarely if ever make the playoffs will breed discontentment among the fanbase much faster than it used to. So teams changing their strategies to maximize their chances of being in the upper echelon makes sense.

 

If MLB does too much to get rid of tanking, then there will just be teams who are utterly hopeless, and that's a bad place for the sport to be in because that's when you start bleeding off fans.

[Andy]

If MLB does too much to get rid of tanking, then there will just be teams who are utterly hopeless, and that's a bad place for the sport to be in because that's when you start bleeding off fans.

The things TT suggested a few posts up would be a good place to start. The draft pool thing in particular is galling because it is a clear and obvious incentive to lose more if you don't think your team is good.

[imb]

I'm not sure what the answer is. The Cubs, who had the longest championship drought in history, hired the best GM in the game and went on a tanking strategy that actually worked and you still had people here crying about not signing anibal sanchez

[Sammy Sofa]

Tanking horsefeathering sucks and is lame every single time but it's great. That is the conundrum.