College Football - Week 13 (Nov. 23)

[Ryne Ween]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

Hoke is a completely different story, has a much weaker track record and is at a school that considers itself Ohio State's football equal.

[sneakypower]

Ferentz vs. Hoke in the "Loser Has One More Year Before Alumni Start Calling For His Head" Bowl.

 

This game has no impact whatsoever on Ferentz or the fans' perception of him. Some think he's fine, some want him to go. His buyout is still the biggest hurdle for Iowa.

 

Similarly, while losing to Iowa would be bad, Hoke can save his season by beating OSU. You don't gain or lose much at UM in the Iowa game.

 

I disagree re Hoke. He isn't going to beat OSU, so he needs this game to avoid a 7-5 / 3-5 record, which - combined with the anemic offense and up and down defense - will put his head squarely on the block. 8-4 / 4-4 isn't much better, but it probably will be perceived that way.

 

I don't think the difference is going to matter at all. If he can't win more than 7/8 games next year, he's likely out in matter whether he wins 7 or 8 this year. They could still win a bowl and finish with 8 wins. But that difference just doesn't matter. 4 losses is too many at this point in his tenure with the team.

with the way that he's recruited it makes no sense to not let him have at least a year with his own upper-classmen

 

a coaching staff (OC, OL, RB) shakeup is badly needed though, and i hope he realizes this and does the same thing Beilein did with the basketball team a few years back, when he overhauled his staff

[Guest]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

After this year Ferentz will likely have averaged 6-7 losses per year for 4 years. Iowa could do better than that, and probably would if they hadn't given Ferentz the worst buyout in sports.

[jersey cubs fan]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

After this year Ferentz will likely have averaged 6-7 losses per year for 4 years. Iowa could do better than that, and probably would if they hadn't given Ferentz the worst buyout in sports.

 

You believe Iowa has averaged 6-7 losses per year because of a buyout?

 

Being relevant on a national basis 1-2 times per decade is pretty much all Iowa can hope for, and they have gotten that out of Ferentz. They average 6.25 losses per year for a 4-year stretch in the mid 2000s. They averaged 8 losses per year during the period they moved from Hayden Fry to Ferentz. They averaged 7.8 losses during the 70s.

 

Iowa cannot reasonably expect to do better than what they've done with Ferentz.

[Ryne Ween]

I wanna talk for a second about what appears to be a ton of hive-mind regarding the big ten in general and Ohio St in particular. Baylor came into the year unranked, has played exactly two road games (one against pathetic KU and one against K state). I would equate the K-state game with the northwestern game. An ugly win against a fair opponent in their only road game vs a competent opponent. They have the win against OU which will probably end up looking less impressive as the weeks move on.

 

On the other side everybody seemed to decide that OSU doesn’t look good. Ohio St would slaughter Baylor. Wisconsin would beat Baylor. Baylor has made a name for itself by running up the score on terrible teams and having a schedule where they have played 7 out of 9 games at home. Art Briles has been around for a while its not like he just rose from the ashes of branch dividion this year.

[Guest]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

After this year Ferentz will likely have averaged 6-7 losses per year for 4 years. Iowa could do better than that, and probably would if they hadn't given Ferentz the worst buyout in sports.

 

You believe Iowa has averaged 6-7 losses per year because of a buyout?

 

Being relevant on a national basis 1-2 times per decade is pretty much all Iowa can hope for, and they have gotten that out of Ferentz. They average 6.25 losses per year for a 4-year stretch in the mid 2000s. They averaged 8 losses per year during the period they moved from Hayden Fry to Ferentz. They averaged 7.8 losses during the 70s.

 

Iowa cannot reasonably expect to do better than what they've done with Ferentz.

 

There's room between "relevant on a national basis" and regularly flirting with not making a bowl. Iowa's a well-supported program with some recent and past history on its side. It shouldn't be firing coaches for 8-4 seasons like was being discussed with Michigan, but they absolutely can expect more than their current 25 wins the last 4 years(there's 3 games left, but they'll be underdogs in all 3). Also, your math is wrong, the only 4 year stretch where they averaged 6 losses per season is the most recent 4, and even that assumes they'll get one more loss this year.

 

Looking at the totality of Ferentz's tenure, sure, they can't demand better than that. But the most recent years have been the worst and most extended bout with mediocrity, and that's what Iowa can expect an upgrade from.

[apete6]

I wanna talk for a second about what appears to be a ton of hive-mind regarding the big ten in general and Ohio St in particular. Baylor came into the year unranked, has played exactly two road games (one against pathetic KU and one against K state). I would equate the K-state game with the northwestern game. An ugly win against a fair opponent in their only road game vs a competent opponent. They have the win against OU which will probably end up looking less impressive as the weeks move on.

 

On the other side everybody seemed to decide that OSU doesn’t look good. Ohio St would slaughter Baylor. Wisconsin would beat Baylor. Baylor has made a name for itself by running up the score on terrible teams and having a schedule where they have played 7 out of 9 games at home. Art Briles has been around for a while its not like he just rose from the ashes of branch dividion this year.

 

Baylor's schedule to this point is slightly worse than OSU's. However, if they beat OK St.on the road, TCU on the road, and Texas at home, that will be better than OSUs schedule, even if they beat Michigan and Michigan State in a B1G title game.

 

They have 1 common opponent. Ohio State beat Buffalo 40-20. Baylor beat them 70-13. Has to count for something when you're splitting hairs.

[Ryne Ween]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

After this year Ferentz will likely have averaged 6-7 losses per year for 4 years. Iowa could do better than that, and probably would if they hadn't given Ferentz the worst buyout in sports.

 

You believe Iowa has averaged 6-7 losses per year because of a buyout?

 

Being relevant on a national basis 1-2 times per decade is pretty much all Iowa can hope for, and they have gotten that out of Ferentz. They average 6.25 losses per year for a 4-year stretch in the mid 2000s. They averaged 8 losses per year during the period they moved from Hayden Fry to Ferentz. They averaged 7.8 losses during the 70s.

 

Iowa cannot reasonably expect to do better than what they've done with Ferentz.

 

Agreed. Its a real lack of perspective if you think Ferentz hasnt done a great job at Iowa. Hes put together a competitive team every year and has an outstanding bowl record.

 

This year even, they have lost copetitive games to 4 ~#15 teams and won @ minnesota. Hes not getting fired.

[Guest]

I wanna talk for a second about what appears to be a ton of hive-mind regarding the big ten in general and Ohio St in particular. Baylor came into the year unranked, has played exactly two road games (one against pathetic KU and one against K state). I would equate the K-state game with the northwestern game. An ugly win against a fair opponent in their only road game vs a competent opponent. They have the win against OU which will probably end up looking less impressive as the weeks move on.

 

On the other side everybody seemed to decide that OSU doesn’t look good. Ohio St would slaughter Baylor. Wisconsin would beat Baylor. Baylor has made a name for itself by running up the score on terrible teams and having a schedule where they have played 7 out of 9 games at home. Art Briles has been around for a while its not like he just rose from the ashes of branch dividion this year.

 

The only way you can really justify putting Ohio State in front of Baylor is if you think that Wisconsin is wayyy better than Oklahoma, which is a difficult argument for me to believe at this point. Neither have played much of a schedule, but Baylor has incinerated most of that schedule while OSU struggled at times, and Baylor also has another potential good win on their schedule. I'd take Baylor over OSU and most certainly Wisconsin.

 

Like with all these other arguments though, it's going to sort itself out. Either OSU will drop a game they shouldn't, Baylor will lose and make the argument academic, or they both win out and Baylor clearly moves past OSU.

[Ryne Ween]

The only way you can really justify putting Ohio State in front of Baylor is if you think that Wisconsin is wayyy better than Oklahoma, which is a difficult argument for me to believe at this point. Neither have played much of a schedule, but Baylor has incinerated most of that schedule while OSU struggled at times, and Baylor also has another potential good win on their schedule. I'd take Baylor over OSU and most certainly Wisconsin.

 

Like with all these other arguments though, it's going to sort itself out. Either OSU will drop a game they shouldn't, Baylor will lose and make the argument academic, or they both win out and Baylor clearly moves past OSU.

 

 

But you really have to justify moving Baylor ahead of OSU and not vice versa. OSU started the year in the poll position and has (with the exception of the NW game) dominated every opponent. To the point that the illini briefly closing the game to 13 points is considered struggling mightily.

 

Bottom line is its unheard of that a team would start #2 in the pre season polls, basically tear through their schedule and get passed by a preseason unranked team.

 

The narrative all year has been against OSU and IMO its been pretty unfair.

[jersey cubs fan]

Also, your math is wrong, the only 4 year stretch where they averaged 6 losses per season is the most recent 4, and even that assumes they'll get one more loss this year.

 

Looking at the totality of Ferentz's tenure, sure, they can't demand better than that. But the most recent years have been the worst and most extended bout with mediocrity, and that's what Iowa can expect an upgrade from.

Looks like I transposed a 7-5 season with a 5-7 season.

 

They lost 8 games in Fry's last season, 10 in Ferentz first and 9 in his 2nd. They averaged 8 per season in whatever 4 year grouping you want to include around those seasons. And they lost a hell of a lot more pre-Fry. In an era where the balance of power has shifted dramatically away from all Big Ten teams this stretch should not be viewed as inappropriately bad. It is standard operating procedure for Iowa.

[Guest]

Giving the benefit of the doubt to OSU because the media thought they would be good is not something that we should be doing.

 

OSU had close games with Wisconsin, Iowa, and Northwestern, and their MOV was less than you'd expect or want against Illinois, Buffalo, and Cal too. Conversely, Baylor has beaten every team on their schedule by 29 points or more except K-State. There's an order of magnitude in the difference of how Baylor has been beating teams, so unless there's a compelling reason in the scheduling to explain that(and in OSU's case there is not), then there's no reason for OSU to have the benefit of the doubt.

[bcl412]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

Hoke is a completely different story, has a much weaker track record and is at a school that considers itself Ohio State's football equal.

 

If Iowa finishes 6-6 and loses their bowl game than proceeds to struggle next year I think Ferentz is gone.

[Ryne Ween]

While I agree with you; its the defacto AP system. They take the preseason rankings and go from there.

[Rex Buckingham]

Not that OSU isn't a very good team, but I'd be hesitant to say they would spank Baylor. if Illinois can put up 35 points on you (granted, OSU may have let off the gas - I don't know because I was unable to watch the game) Baylor can probably score pretty darn well against you also, and Baylor has a defense that is quite a bit better than Illinois' simply based on the fact that almost every team in the country has a defense that is quite a bit better than the one at Illinois

[Old Style]

Baylor's schedule to this point is slightly worse than OSU's. However, if they beat OK St.on the road, TCU on the road, and Texas at home, that will be better than OSUs schedule, even if they beat Michigan and Michigan State in a B1G title game.

 

They have 1 common opponent. Ohio State beat Buffalo 40-20. Baylor beat them 70-13. Has to count for something when you're splitting hairs.

This means zero. TCU is a bad football team. They are 2-6 in conference and 4-7 overall. They [expletive] lost to West Virginia. In Fort Worth.

[apete6]

Baylor's schedule to this point is slightly worse than OSU's. However, if they beat OK St.on the road, TCU on the road, and Texas at home, that will be better than OSUs schedule, even if they beat Michigan and Michigan State in a B1G title game.

 

They have 1 common opponent. Ohio State beat Buffalo 40-20. Baylor beat them 70-13. Has to count for something when you're splitting hairs.

This means zero. TCU is a bad football team. They are 2-6 in conference and 4-7 overall. They [expletive] lost to West Virginia. In Fort Worth.

 

When the guy is saying they've only played 2 road games like they won't have anymore, it does mean something.

 

To think that the B1G is better than the Big 12 this year by any significant margin would be completely incorrect. TCU, while bad, is certainly better than Illinois and Purdue and probably a couple of other B1G teams.

[apete6]

While I agree with you; its the defacto AP system. They take the preseason rankings and go from there.

 

Are you seriously using the preseason rankings as justification for 1 team being better than the other? I may have heard it all, now. Preseason rankings mean absolutely nothing.

[NewUserName]

with the way that he's recruited it makes no sense to not let him have at least a year with his own upper-classmen

 

a coaching staff (OC, OL, RB) shakeup is badly needed though, and i hope he realizes this and does the same thing Beilein did with the basketball team a few years back, when he overhauled his staff

Do they really need a coaching staff shakeup or do they just need to run the offense the OC was hired to run? I am pretty sure he was not hired to run read option/spread stuff.

 

I think Michigans biggest issue on offense is that Gardner is too indecisive. By the time he makes a decision it is usually too late. I would blitz him all day too, until he starts beating me with hot reads and quick run adjustments

[Tracer Bullet]

Ferentz vs. Hoke in the "Loser Has One More Year Before Alumni Start Calling For His Head" Bowl.

 

This game has no impact whatsoever on Ferentz or the fans' perception of him. Some think he's fine, some want him to go. His buyout is still the biggest hurdle for Iowa.

 

Similarly, while losing to Iowa would be bad, Hoke can save his season by beating OSU. You don't gain or lose much at UM in the Iowa game.

 

I disagree re Hoke. He isn't going to beat OSU, so he needs this game to avoid a 7-5 / 3-5 record, which - combined with the anemic offense and up and down defense - will put his head squarely on the block. 8-4 / 4-4 isn't much better, but it probably will be perceived that way.

 

I don't think the difference is going to matter at all. If he can't win more than 7/8 games next year, he's likely out in matter whether he wins 7 or 8 this year. They could still win a bowl and finish with 8 wins. But that difference just doesn't matter. 4 losses is too many at this point in his tenure with the team.

with the way that he's recruited it makes no sense to not let him have at least a year with his own upper-classmen

 

a coaching staff (OC, OL, RB) shakeup is badly needed though, and i hope he realizes this and does the same thing Beilein did with the basketball team a few years back, when he overhauled his staff

 

Oh I don't think he will or should be fired this year. But if he gets thumped by OSU and then loses 4 games next year with another whipping by Meyer, don't you think he'll be out?

 

He could throw Borges under the bus, but I assume he was on board with the decision to make the offense fit denard instead of taking the lumps and getting the entire team an extra couple years with the actual offense. That seems to be a HC decision or at least one that's on his head. Maybe the problem is elsewhere but from my perspective, that seems to have been a bad decision.

[Tracer Bullet]

Ferentz should, and I think does, have the Iowa job until he doesnt want it anymore. Hes been pretty much rock solid for them for 15 years and had opportunities to leave for better jobs. Iowa is not going to do better.

 

After this year Ferentz will likely have averaged 6-7 losses per year for 4 years. Iowa could do better than that, and probably would if they hadn't given Ferentz the worst buyout in sports.

 

They probably could do better but not with the stability they have enjoyed. Now you can argue that instability without Ferentz is better than what they've had the last few seasons. Maybe you'd be right. But I think Iowa would prefer a stable, relatively clean program that's in the hunt for a bowl almost every year than grabbing a good coach that jumps at a better opportunity every 5 years.

[sneakypower]

Oh I don't think he will or should be fired this year. But if he gets thumped by OSU and then loses 4 games next year with another whipping by Meyer, don't you think he'll be out?

 

He could throw Borges under the bus, but I assume he was on board with the decision to make the offense fit denard instead of taking the lumps and getting the entire team an extra couple years with the actual offense. That seems to be a HC decision or at least one that's on his head. Maybe the problem is elsewhere but from my perspective, that seems to have been a bad decision.

we're seeing this year that Denard covered up a lot of problems in the offense, so i don't have an issue with that (we essentially don't have upperclass interior OL [thanks RR], so the added reps still wouldn't be of any benefit now)

 

it's not Borges' fault that we're kind of running an offense that our personnel is ill-suited for, but it is his fault that he tips play-calls with formations and never counters or audibles out of it, so that semi-intelligent DCs eat us for lunch

 

minus-69 rushing yards in the previous two weeks and we're still running play-action under center on 3rd & Goal from the 10

[UK1679666180]

If USC doesnt hire Orgeron as HC, how high is his stock now?

[stuy119]

Re: Hoke and Michigan, it's going to take time - and see what the expectations truly are.

 

I'll use the analogy of Jimbo Fisher and FSU. He's in his 5th year, and is 41-10. He should/could be around 46-5, and that's what people think he should be. And he's paying the price for that.

 

But when you look back at the stock of talent he was left with after Bowden was (thankfully) forced out, it's a miracle that we have that record over his first 51 games AND have the opportunity to play for a BCS championship if we don't blow it.

 

Michigan needs to realize that last season was a mirage of sorts, and that they are 3 years away at this point. They need to stick to the process and wait it out, as unbearable as that seems.

[Ryne Ween]

USC should go big on this hire. Get a guy who has absoltuely proven he can lead a winning program and pay him an ungodly amount to coach the team. Coach O has had a nice interim record but I would absolutely not Quade him because they eeked out a last second win against an overrated Stanford team. Even if they beat an overrated UCLA team. Im not sure that Lane wouldnt have done the same.

 

I think Orgeron is good at what he does and they should try to convince him to stay. If I were USC than I would focus on bringing back Sarkesian or going for Sumlin and I would absolutely stay away from Del Rio.