Offseason Rumors

[Gilby]

Yeah the Kottaras move is baffling. He wasn't released just to make room on the 40 man when they'll need to add another catcher anyway. He or his dog must have pissed someone off.

[Guest]

Does anyone know the story of John Baker's 2013? Was he hurt or something? If so I can at least squint and see a way for him to be okay offensively, as far as backup catchers go. Whiteside there's no redemption, he's been atrocious for years at both MLB and MiLB and he's 1 for 18 in ST. In any case, Kottaras must've really done something crazy for them to unconditionally release him. There's literally nothing remotely resembling an MLB catcher in the upper minors, so not even attempting to send him to Iowa is crazy without more info.

[XZero771679666304]

Yeah, it's a very surprising move.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The catcher thing is weird. They must just think there's a huge defensive difference between Kottraras and Baker.

[Neuby]

Was really hoping Hoyer would find a way to fleece the Rangers with a Kottaras/MI trade.

[Illini Iceman]

He cleared outright waivers so Texas must not be too keen on him either.

[SouthSideRyan]

Bruce Levine ‏@MLBBruceLevine 49m

After losing Geo Soto to injury. Texas taking hard look at Cub catcher George Kottaras .

 

Also, I apologize for slacking in my duties here. What I meant to say was "What do they need Kottaras for, they have Chirinos under team control through 2018!"

 

I was worried about you

[imb]

gag, per dave cameron

 

Chicago Cubs give up: RHP Jeff Samardzija

Arizona Diamondbacks send back: SS Didi Gregorius, RHP Randall Delgado and RHP David Hernandez

 

The D-backs spent the entire winter looking for an ace before settling for Bronson Arroyo as their primary pitching upgrade, but the loss of Patrick Corbin to season-ending surgery once again has GM Kevin Towers looking for an impact starting pitcher. No available pitcher would make a bigger impact on Arizona's rotation than Samardzija, and this is the kind of deal that could help both teams.

 

The D-backs would get a legitimate front-line guy, the kind of arm they could throw in a play-in game, should they qualify for one of the NL's two wild-card spots. Samardzija's 4.34 ERA in 2013 is not at all indicative of his talent, and you should expect a performance closer to his 3.45 xFIP (expected fielding independent pitching) instead. He's the kind of arm that the D-backs have coveted all winter, and with Gregorius seemingly out of a job in Arizona, this trade would upgrade the D-backs rotation without taking anyone out of their starting lineup.

 

For the Cubs, this trade would just be about extracting value from a seller's market. While they might not have a pressing need for a shortstop, Gregorius could slide over to second base for a season while the Cubs let him prove that he can hit big league pitching well enough to be another team's every-day shortstop. With a solid offensive performance, the Cubs could shop him as a legitimate young shortstop either at the trade deadline or next winter and likely get more in return than they will trying to trade an impending free agent in Samardzija.

 

In addition to picking up an asset with the ability to increase his own value, they'd also collect value in Delgado and Hernandez and likely come out ahead over trying to deal Samardzija at the deadline.

[Guest]

lmfao

[sneakypower]

edit:

For the Cubs, this trade would just be about extracting minimal value from a seller's market.

[bukie]

Sure, a Shark's a Shark, but Delgado could be anything! He could even be the next Shark!

[Guest]

That same article also says that we should trade Barney and Schierholtz to Detroit for 2B Devon Travis. Tragically, it's on Insider and not Fangraphs so I can't read commenters taking him to task for treating the Cubs like an ATM without half a thought to what they might require in return.

 

EDIT: Actually, more than a few of the ESPN commenters are pointing out the lunacy in the Cubs trading most of their trade assets for middle infielders. That's how bad this is.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Dave Cameron is the worst.

[sneakypower]

That same article also says that we should trade Barney and Schierholtz to Detroit for 2B Devon Travis. Tragically, it's on Insider and not Fangraphs so I can't read commenters taking him to task for treating the Cubs like an ATM without half a thought to what they might require in return.

 

EDIT: Actually, more than a few of the ESPN commenters are pointing out the lunacy in the Cubs trading most of their trade assets for middle infielders. That's how bad this is.

is it just the middle infielder thing? because that aside, i'd actually really hope we'll be able to do a whole lot better when we're inevitably stuck trying to trade some of our fringe top-100 prospects (like Travis) than 2 guys who just combined for 1100 semi-sheltered PA and less than 2 WAR: potential non-tender candidates

[Guest]

That same article also says that we should trade Barney and Schierholtz to Detroit for 2B Devon Travis. Tragically, it's on Insider and not Fangraphs so I can't read commenters taking him to task for treating the Cubs like an ATM without half a thought to what they might require in return.

 

EDIT: Actually, more than a few of the ESPN commenters are pointing out the lunacy in the Cubs trading most of their trade assets for middle infielders. That's how bad this is.

is it just the middle infielder thing? because that aside, i'd actually really hope we'll be able to do a whole lot better when we're inevitably stuck trying to trade some of our fringe top-100 prospects (like Travis) than 2 guys who just combined for 1100 semi-sheltered PA and less than 2 WAR: potential non-tender candidates

 

I was trying to be generous, reasonable people can disagree on something as complex as trade value. Making that trade return infielder dominant for this Cubs organization though, is downright lazy.

[SouthSideRyan]

That same article also says that we should trade Barney and Schierholtz to Detroit for 2B Devon Travis. Tragically, it's on Insider and not Fangraphs so I can't read commenters taking him to task for treating the Cubs like an ATM without half a thought to what they might require in return.

 

EDIT: Actually, more than a few of the ESPN commenters are pointing out the lunacy in the Cubs trading most of their trade assets for middle infielders. That's how bad this is.

 

Are we reading the same fangraphs? Seems every article on there (even those by the AWFUL Bradley Woodrum) are met with 90% adulation in he comments

[Guest]

That same article also says that we should trade Barney and Schierholtz to Detroit for 2B Devon Travis. Tragically, it's on Insider and not Fangraphs so I can't read commenters taking him to task for treating the Cubs like an ATM without half a thought to what they might require in return.

 

EDIT: Actually, more than a few of the ESPN commenters are pointing out the lunacy in the Cubs trading most of their trade assets for middle infielders. That's how bad this is.

 

Are we reading the same fangraphs? Seems every article on there (even those by the AWFUL Bradley Woodrum are met with 90% adulation in he comments

 

I wasn't trying to say the comments would be a unified angry mob, but those that disagreed(and there would be several) would have taken him to task in an educated manner. There was some of that even in the ESPN article, but you had to scroll past a 10 reply thread of "Samardzija is worth way more than that" "oh yeah moron, how is he worth so much with an ERA over 4?" etc.

[jersey cubs fan]

you people read comments?

[davell]

I'll play devil's advocate here. From a value standpoint, is this a bad return? Hernandez was a 2 WAR reliever in 2012. I would think Delgado still has the basic same value as a low end top 100 type prospect and Gregorius falls in that range as well. I get the fact that we literally have zero need for him, but the Mets, Pirates and others seem to be looking at him currently. If you flipped him to either of those teams, getting back Kingham or Montero in the process, isn't that fair value?

 

Yes, Cameron is lazy in trying to put Gregorius in our lineup, but a return of Delgado, Hernandez, and one of Kingham or Montero would change the equation somewhat for me. To the point where I'd do the deal actually.

[A New Era]

I'll play devil's advocate here. From a value standpoint, is this a bad return? Hernandez was a 2 WAR reliever in 2012. I would think Delgado still has the basic same value as a low end top 100 type prospect and Gregorius falls in that range as well. I get the fact that we literally have zero need for him, but the Mets, Pirates and others seem to be looking at him currently. If you flipped him to either of those teams, getting back Kingham or Montero in the process, isn't that fair value?

 

Yes, Cameron is lazy in trying to put Gregorius in our lineup, but a return of Delgado, Hernandez, and one of Kingham or Montero would change the equation somewhat for me. To the point where I'd do the deal actually.

 

Yeah it's a bit hard to play advocate here. 2 months of Garza got us a top 50 pitching prospect and a guy who could be a long term 3B for us. On top of a couple throw ins who are legit upside types. No way is this FO going to accept a marginal top 100 SP and SS ( that we don't even need) and a throw in. for 2 years of Shark.

 

They (or I), wouldn't do less than one top 40 SP, another top 100 SP, and 2 legit upsides at positions of need (C, OF, maybe more SPs).

[ConstableRabbit]

you people read comments?

On Fangraphs, when you're likely to have a more intelligent poster and direct responses from the author, yes.

 

On ESPN, never.

[Guest]

I'll play devil's advocate here. From a value standpoint, is this a bad return? Hernandez was a 2 WAR reliever in 2012. I would think Delgado still has the basic same value as a low end top 100 type prospect and Gregorius falls in that range as well. I get the fact that we literally have zero need for him, but the Mets, Pirates and others seem to be looking at him currently. If you flipped him to either of those teams, getting back Kingham or Montero in the process, isn't that fair value?

 

Yes, Cameron is lazy in trying to put Gregorius in our lineup, but a return of Delgado, Hernandez, and one of Kingham or Montero would change the equation somewhat for me. To the point where I'd do the deal actually.

 

From a value standpoint of "this is what Samardzija has done" and "this is what these 3 guys are worth in general", it's not atrocious at least. Where it fails is that the Cubs aren't going to be valuing Samardzija on what he's done so far(not until probably next offseason or deadline at least), and the actual return is not useful, and I like Delgado. Trading for Gregorius just to trade him again is pointless, it has the Cubs shouldering the risk that he continues to turn into Alcides Escobar without any benefit. Delgado is fine, but as the only SP in a Samardzija deal it almost completely misses why you trade Shark to begin with. Hernandez is a perfectly capable reliever, but he's approaching 30 and has 2 years of team control. Sure maybe you spin him off later too, but again, why are the Cubs shouldering that risk again? To make it more convenient for Towers to get Samardzija?

 

The whole thing has a perspective of "The Cubs could trade Samardzija and have been linked to Arizona, what can Arizona afford to give up that won't hurt their MLB roster in order to add up to the value X I've placed on Shark?" That's why all 3 players are borderline MLB contributors coming off down years, and why all but Delgado(who is not a flawless match for the Cubs needs himself) requires a "well you could trade him for someone you really want" as a caveat for why the Cubs would even make this deal.

[Derwood]

Miggy Cabrera signs a 10/$300m extension that covers the remaining two years of his current contract

[Clem Fandango]

Pirates also locked up Marte to a 6-year extension worth $31 million

[EhDubya]

So the question now becomes, would you rather have 6 years of Marte or 1 of Cabrera?