The Junior Lake thread

[Hairyducked Idiot]

There've been successes too, but the hit rate just isn't good enough.

 

More failures: Sweeney, Hairston, Corpas, Baker, Fujikawa, Volstad, Mather, Baker, Sappelt, Borbon.

 

And that's only including guys from outside the organization. There's also been a ton of guys we gave promotions from within to that didn't deserve them.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm wrong in my expectations that given the glut of needs on this team they would have found someone beyond Valbuena in terms of having sustained offensive success?

 

If you're putting 2014 in the books already, then yeah. Sweeney, Schierholtz, and Bogusevic turned Ruggiano being specific examples of guys likely to provide value covering multiple years.

 

I think we (obviously) have wildly different expectations; to me those all seem like guys signed as obvious placeholders or who have effectively amounted to being decent bench options. Even Valbuena is largely seen "just" as the strong side of a platoon. I guess I was just hoping that they'd either target or stumble across a single player this way that turned out to be even just a serviceable everyday option.

[Guest]

I'm wrong in my expectations that given the glut of needs on this team they would have found someone beyond Valbuena in terms of having sustained offensive success?

 

If you're putting 2014 in the books already, then yeah. Sweeney, Schierholtz, and Bogusevic turned Ruggiano being specific examples of guys likely to provide value covering multiple years.

 

I think we (obviously) have wildly different expectations; to me those all seem like guys signed as obvious placeholders or who have effectively amounted to being decent bench options. Even Valbuena is largely seen "just" as the strong side of a platoon. I guess I was just hoping that they'd either target or stumble across a single player this way that turned out to be even just a serviceable everyday option.

 

Well that line gets pretty blurry in this run environment. Do you have an example of the type of player you're referring to, specifically in the last couple years?

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm wrong in my expectations that given the glut of needs on this team they would have found someone beyond Valbuena in terms of having sustained offensive success?

 

If you're putting 2014 in the books already, then yeah. Sweeney, Schierholtz, and Bogusevic turned Ruggiano being specific examples of guys likely to provide value covering multiple years.

 

I think we (obviously) have wildly different expectations; to me those all seem like guys signed as obvious placeholders or who have effectively amounted to being decent bench options. Even Valbuena is largely seen "just" as the strong side of a platoon. I guess I was just hoping that they'd either target or stumble across a single player this way that turned out to be even just a serviceable everyday option.

 

Well that line gets pretty blurry in this run environment. Do you have an example of the type of player you're referring to, specifically in the last couple years?

 

I don't; I'm just assuming that someother teams out there have managed to signed someone that turned out to be, say, a fulltime Valbuena or thereabouts.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Here's one that bugs me.

 

Coco Crisp was a free agent after the 2011 season. He re-signed with Oakland, but not before hitting the open market for awhile.

 

He got 2 years/$14m with a club option for 2015.

 

He put up 6.5 fWAR in those two years. Where's our equivalent outfielder? Saving a couple of million on DeJesus and getting half as much fWAR?

[Sammy Sofa]

Hey, DeJesus! I forgot about him; there's a good example.

 

Or Nelson Cruz.

[KingCubsFan]

Here's one that bugs me.

 

Coco Crisp was a free agent after the 2011 season. He re-signed with Oakland, but not before hitting the open market for awhile.

 

He got 2 years/$14m with a club option for 2015.

 

He put up 6.5 fWAR in those two years. Where's our equivalent outfielder? Saving a couple of million on DeJesus and getting half as much fWAR?

Nearly identical wOBA's though.

[neely crenshaw]

And it takes two to tango.

 

We may want a number of free agents but they have to want us also.

I would guess to take him away from a contender would have cost more than it did Oakland to keep him.

[Guest]

And it takes two to tango.

 

We may want a number of free agents but they have to want us also.

I would guess to take him away from a contender would have cost more than it did Oakland to keep him.

 

Oakland was 3 games better than the Cubs in 2011.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

And it takes two to tango.

 

We may want a number of free agents but they have to want us also.

I would guess to take him away from a contender would have cost more than it did Oakland to keep him.

 

Oakland was 3 games better than the Cubs in 2011.

 

With the 28th-ranked farm system.

[sneakypower]

Hey, DeJesus! I forgot about him; there's a good example.

 

Or Nelson Cruz.

he of the -50 UZR/150, and 0.4 total fWAR? he's also DH'd in 40% of his games played

 

(full disclosure: i wanted Chris B Young/Granderson)

[SouthSideRyan]

I wanted Jacoby Ellsbury, so I'm pretty set.

[neely crenshaw]

And it takes two to tango.

 

We may want a number of free agents but they have to want us also.

I would guess to take him away from a contender would have cost more than it did Oakland to keep him.

 

Oakland was 3 games better than the Cubs in 2011.

 

I guess I didn't realize The A's were mediocre at that time. It seems like we have been bad for so long that I took for granted the difference in the clubs!

Still the Cubs are probably going to have to beat any offer to sign free agents.

So we can point to whatever free agent we think would be a good signing, but that doesn't mean they'll sign with us.

 

The guy I think you could point to was Cespedes. Young, big bat, cheaper big bat free agent with no draft pick attached. He was relatively cheap, his first two years were less than what we paid Zambrano to pitch some place else. He is still only at 10.5 mil a year now for 2 more years.

[Sammy Sofa]

Hey, DeJesus! I forgot about him; there's a good example.

 

Or Nelson Cruz.

he of the -50 UZR/150, and 0.4 total fWAR? he's also DH'd in 40% of his games played

 

(full disclosure: i wanted Chris B Young/Granderson)

 

Yes, him. Because he's useful and cheap and only signed for one year. Are the Orioles DHing because of health issues or just to fit him in? Because it's not like he was anchored to the spot before this year.

[Guest]

nelsoncruzdonatingtheworldseriestothecardinalsbecausehe'sneverseenalinedriveinhislife.gif

[sneakypower]

now why did you have to go there?

[davell]

Considering the lack of other moves made this offseason, signing Cruz to a one year deal wouldn't have been smart at all. Losing a 2nd rounder for ONE year of a guy isn't smart, unless you've made other moves to out yourself much closer to contention, than what we have.

 

It's not that the 2nd rounder is even all that valuable. But in that exact case, you're just donating it.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, yeah, nobody's saying that signing Cruz should have been their ONLY move; it was just yet another in a long, long line of moves they have chosen not to do that have built up into a gaping hole of farts.

[RynoRules]

Junior update - 279 .301 .473 .774 107(OPS+)

[Hairyducked Idiot]

BABIP 8 million

[imb]

ahhh [expletive] none of his hits count

[Hairyducked Idiot]

ahhh [expletive] none of his hits count

 

The home runs count.

[XZero771679666304]

I hate to agree with Kyle even a little, but just about everything in his numbers suggests that Lake's performance (which as been decent, but not great) is unsustainable. That said, there's enough potential there that given the lack of alternatives, there's also very little reason not to let him play until time and regression to the mean bear that out.

 

Regardless of the reasons, he's been decent, and I have no problem with him playing until he ceases to be. Who knows, he might even make some adjustments and be useful in the long term.

[Guest]

The good news (as sneaky has pointed out) is that the progress he has made in May has been built on the back of a more sustainable profile of performance.

[SouthSideRyan]

Considering the lack of other moves made this offseason, signing Cruz to a one year deal wouldn't have been smart at all. Losing a 2nd rounder for ONE year of a guy isn't smart, unless you've made other moves to out yourself much closer to contention, than what we have.

 

It's not that the 2nd rounder is even all that valuable. But in that exact case, you're just donating it.

 

If the cubs true talent level is equivalent to their run total than yeah id say donating a 2nd rounder for an improvement to a glaring weakness would have been a good call. People can't play the "hey the cubs are pretty ok look at pythag" card while simultaneously playing the what a waste it would have been to try his offseason we're 11 games under 500 in May" card

 

The problem with Cruz is he may not be capable of playing anywhere