Olney brings up the thought of dealing Starlin

[BeerHere]

Basically my opinion as well. So many holes, ok but not great farm system. One young and very good player isn't enough. If the team has the opportunity to turn that into two very good and you players you have to do it. I love the kid, but like someone said above, if the Orioles came to Hoyer offering Machado and Bundy I would do it.

 

What the F is a you player?

Pretty funny typo

[dew1679666265]

Because the garbage organization that had him didn't deserve him.

 

They also couldn't afford the 8/152 contract he was about to sign.

[jersey cubs fan]

Basically my opinion as well. So many holes, ok but not great farm system. One young and very good player isn't enough. If the team has the opportunity to turn that into two very good and you players you have to do it. I love the kid, but like someone said above, if the Orioles came to Hoyer offering Machado and Bundy I would do it.

 

What the F is a you player?

Pretty funny typo

 

You missed the 2nd one.

[SouthSideRyan]

Because the garbage organization that had him didn't deserve him.

 

They also couldn't afford the 8/152 contract he was about to sign.

 

He was also in danger of eating himself out of the league.

[davell]

I never took any journalism classes, but is there a class that tells you to write something mind-numbingly stupid to get people talking about it? If so, Olney just did it very well and it gives a nice perspective on Rogers, Rosenbloom, and others. Maybe they're actually brilliant and we'rr just part of a very inside joke they're all in on.

[Guest]

There could be some reasons to trade Castro:

 

if the organization feels:

- his character is flawed and that he'll continue to put himself in bad positions outside of the field

- he's regressing as a hitter and his aggression outside of the strikezone is not fixable

- he's going to have to move off short sooner as opposed to later combined with an aggressive approach and lack of power to be an asset at a different position

 

In short, if they feel his value will decline sharply in the coming years.

 

Combine that with the possibility of a ridiculous offer of, say, Wieters, Bundy + Machado. Then sure - trade him. But I don't think we're in that situation.

[dew1679666265]

To put this a bit into perspective, Starlin has struggled this year and refuses to take walks. There are some concerning trends we're seeing with him offensively and the Theo regime really needs to work with him on becoming more patient (even if only a little). Even still, here are some numbers:

 

Major league average SS stat line:

.251/.306/.364/.670

 

Starlin Castro's line:

.309/.319/.411/.730

 

So as much as Castro has struggled so far this year, he's still 60 points of OPS better than league average at his position, at 22 years old and with improving defense. This is not a guy you willingly trade unless you get a ridiculously unrealistic deal (Justin Upton/Skaggs/etc, for instance). I certainly wouldn't trade him for a couple of guys who have never been past AA.

[BeerHere]

Basically my opinion as well. So many holes, ok but not great farm system. One young and very good player isn't enough. If the team has the opportunity to turn that into two very good and you players you have to do it. I love the kid, but like someone said above, if the Orioles came to Hoyer offering Machado and Bundy I would do it.

 

What the F is a you player?

Pretty funny typo

 

You missed the 2nd one.

:D Working from home this week and we're out of coffee.

[rawaction]

Are there people that really want to trade a 22-year old player with success in the major leagues for players 1-2 years younger 1-2 years away from the majors?

[Sammy Sofa]

Are there people that really want to trade a 22-year old player with success in the major leagues for players 1-2 years younger 1-2 years away from the majors?

 

I think this merits a poll. There already looks to be 4-5 people in favor of the mythical "right deal."

[pitchcs]

What about the flip side though? Do you really think Arizona would trade Upton, Bauer, Skaggs or whoever as some combination for Starlin? Or Bundy, Machado, Wieters, etc. What about Hultzen, Montero, T. Walker...

 

I doubt it.

[scarey]

Felix Hernandez and Taijuan Walker. That's the type of return I would expect. If that's too unreasonable than I guess I want something unreasonable in return for the 22 year old all star short stop.

 

Walker has 39 innings above A ball and Hernandez is signed through 2014 at an average of 19.75M/year.

 

The only reason I would see for trading Castro is to get a young, top 10 starting pitcher. Obtaining such a pitcher seems to be increasingly difficult, so to grab Felix would be an opportunity I would find hard to pass up.

 

However, the cost control of Castro is gonna have to cost the Mariners in that deal. Walker profiles as an ace and would probably sweeten the pot enough for me personally despite the fact that he's not sure thing.

[Tracer Bullet]

The fact that neither side would do a deal doesn't mean one of them is wrong.

[scarey]

What about the flip side though? Do you really think Arizona would trade Upton, Bauer, Skaggs or whoever as some combination for Starlin? Or Bundy, Machado, Wieters, etc. What about Hultzen, Montero, T. Walker...

 

I doubt it.

 

No they wouldn't. Which is why it really is a stupid proposition. You'll never find a team that will agree to give up what Castro would cost them in a trade.

 

EDIT: Mariner's just nailed it.

[bukie]

I harken back to all those other times in MLB history 21 year old all stars were traded to improve their teams...

 

 

...nope, not once.

 

To be fair, Castro is 22, and Miguel Cabrera got traded before his 25th birthday after making 4 All-Star games.

 

I don't see what the state of the team has to do with trading Castro though. Either the risk/reward of multiple prospects are more valuable than Castro or they aren't. The fact that the team has a lot of holes to fill shouldn't have anything to do with it. Either way, the players who are here will be here at least 4 years (Castro) and probably 10+ years so the Cubs will have plenty of time to build around them in other ways.

 

And I don't see much that should make the Cubs want to trade Castro right now. 2 elite prospects probably wouldn't be worth it IMO.

Actually, Cabrera is the perfect example for why not to trade Castro. Look at the supposed return the Marlins got for him.

[El Duderino]

I harken back to all those other times in MLB history 21 year old all stars were traded to improve their teams...

 

 

...nope, not once.

 

To be fair, Castro is 22, and Miguel Cabrera got traded before his 25th birthday after making 4 All-Star games.

 

I don't see what the state of the team has to do with trading Castro though. Either the risk/reward of multiple prospects are more valuable than Castro or they aren't. The fact that the team has a lot of holes to fill shouldn't have anything to do with it. Either way, the players who are here will be here at least 4 years (Castro) and probably 10+ years so the Cubs will have plenty of time to build around them in other ways.

 

And I don't see much that should make the Cubs want to trade Castro right now. 2 elite prospects probably wouldn't be worth it IMO.

Actually, Cabrera is the perfect example for why not to trade Castro. Look at the supposed return the Marlins got for him.

 

I can't even remember what they got for him. Which is probably a bad sign.

[jersey cubs fan]

cameron maybin and andrew miller were the biggest names involved

[ShawonOmeter12]

Castro for Matt Moore. Would you do it? Would Tampa Bay do it?

[Little Slide Rooter]

Prospect packages are always going to be a gamble. You could end up with Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller or you could end up with Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez. This is why such trades tend to be judged in hindsight, which isn't necessarily fair to the GMs who make them. Even the great Billy Beane got the shaft when he traded Car Go and Street for a few months of Matt Holliday which ultimately translated to a guy who's still in AAA. For all of the players the Pirates have traded for prospect packages, how many of those prospects have turned out? It's like a who's who of top prospect failures.

 

An argument for the those who feel that Castro should be untouchable is that those types of trades make good sense for a small market team with no chance of retaining the payer long term, but for a big market team low on talent, they better be getting some sure things in return.

[rawaction]

Castro for Matt Moore. Would you do it? Would Tampa Bay do it?

 

No and Yes, Tampa would probably do it.

 

Tampa has a ton of pitching. They'd probably be OK giving up 1 arm for a star position player. I wouldn't do it as the Cubs, because although good pitching is tough to find, so is a good shortstop. And for a team like the Cubs, good pitching is a lot easier to buy than a good SS is. Plus, Castro has more experience than Moore and is 9 months younger.

[PriortoTheoIhadWood]

Seriously, WSR is right. As bad of an article as it is and as much as I want Castro here, if the O's offered Bundy and Machado, I can't see any reason to turn that down. No matter how bullheaded I sounded earlier. That said, no chance Baltimore would entertain that and I don't blame them.

 

Both are too far away for me to take just them for Castro. Throw in Weiters/Jones + Matusz for the hell of it and I'd think about it.

[sneakypower]

Castro for Matt Moore. Would you do it? Would Tampa Bay do it?

that 4.88 FIP sure is tempting...

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Castro for Matt Moore. Would you do it? Would Tampa Bay do it?

Hell no.

[jersey cubs fan]

take the bat, leave the pitching

[KaiserCesar]

The prospect gamble makes sense if the team does not have the resources to compete with that player in their prime years. It's done to give the chance to get even more production than the team could imagine getting with the player.

 

The Cubs have a lot of payroll flexibility and a middle-of-the-pack farm system with good talent evaluators in the front office. The player in question also has a really long tome before any decline is fathomable. A straight up prospect gamble makes no sense and any deal would have to include a young and very productive player. There's no reason a team would make the deal unless they have a complete logjam at another position. That would be the case where a deal might be considered.