Dale Sveum to re arrange the deck chairs

[treebird]

The Minnesota Twins non-tendered David Ortiz, teams do stupid things.

 

That was a money thing.

Is it wrong to wonder why a bad offensive team would just give up on a 24 year old former 1st round pick? I don't know. Maybe it was options, maybe he had a bonus coming. Maybe he slept with someones wife. It just makes me wonder, which I think is pretty sensible. It doesn't mean I thinks it's dumb, It doesn't mean I think it's a sure failure, just gives me cause to question it- not the pick up but why they would cut him.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with wondering why the A's cut him. I also don't think there's anything wrong with letting him get a couple PA while he's on the team.

 

Cardenas is 24 and has a career minor league line of .303/.368/.417. Barney is 26 with a career minor league line of .287/.335/.376. Cardenas was DFAs due to his defense and the A's need for his spot on the 40 man. He should be given as much PT as we can give him, especially in a lost season.

 

i haf no idea what those #s mean, pls express all datea in total bases per 1O team games (not games played or games started)

[neely crenshaw]

The Minnesota Twins non-tendered David Ortiz, teams do stupid things.

 

That was a money thing.

Is it wrong to wonder why a bad offensive team would just give up on a 24 year old former 1st round pick? I don't know. Maybe it was options, maybe he had a bonus coming. Maybe he slept with someones wife. It just makes me wonder, which I think is pretty sensible. It doesn't mean I thinks it's dumb, It doesn't mean I think it's a sure failure, just gives me cause to question it- not the pick up but why they would cut him.

 

Nothing wrong to question it as I wonder why as well, but it also not wrong for the other side of the coin as far as why would the Cubs sign him given his numbers as well as what Baseball America seen/heard about in him in prior to the start of '11.

 

It's also not wrong to question whether or not he'd be more productive than Barney based on those factors.

that i can agree with, but couldn't the same be said for the underperforming Stewart at third, which is listed as another of his positions, as is left field.

I look at it as we have many problems. too many to list. Barney isn't a problem, not necessarily a strength but not a problem. So why are we not looking at one of the more problematic areas? We have no young 3b that is to close to being ready. If Cardenas is better offensively than barney, then you have to say he'd probably be better than stewart. it would be nice if he could catch!

[neely crenshaw]

Thanks rooster for the info.

 

Of course that raises the question if he is cut because of his defense, why are we putting him in a spot where defense is usually slightly more important than offense?

[SouthSideRyan]

Of course, if I was the Cubs (luckily for everyone I'm not) I'd hit the pitcher 8th, Barney 7th and Campana 9th, DeJesus 1, Castro 2nd, Lahair 3, Soriano 4th, and Stewart 5th.

 

It'll look much better once Jackson and Rizzo arrive.

 

i'd opt to use a 6 hitter.

[bukie]

Of course, if I was the Cubs (luckily for everyone I'm not) I'd hit the pitcher 8th, Barney 7th and Campana 9th, DeJesus 1, Castro 2nd, Lahair 3, Soriano 4th, and Stewart 5th.

 

It'll look much better once Jackson and Rizzo arrive.

 

i'd opt to use a 6 hitter.

In fairness, the Cubs really don't have a catcher right now.

[neely crenshaw]

Since we rearranging the deck chairs...where does Rizzo go? does he play first and La Hair go to left? where does Jackson go? if Campana continues, which I hope he does but have my doubts, does that move out Dejesus? obviously they can run a 4-man platoon situation but overall doesn't it make sense to play those 3 and not Dejesus for future considerations?

IF all that worked out, you might actually have 6 or 7 major league hitters on the field. that's a huge "if" though.

[UK1679666180]

The Minnesota Twins non-tendered David Ortiz, teams do stupid things.

 

That was a money thing.

Is it wrong to wonder why a bad offensive team would just give up on a 24 year old former 1st round pick? I don't know. Maybe it was options, maybe he had a bonus coming. Maybe he slept with someones wife. It just makes me wonder, which I think is pretty sensible. It doesn't mean I thinks it's dumb, It doesn't mean I think it's a sure failure, just gives me cause to question it- not the pick up but why they would cut him.

 

Nothing wrong to question it as I wonder why as well, but it also not wrong for the other side of the coin as far as why would the Cubs sign him given his numbers as well as what Baseball America seen/heard about in him in prior to the start of '11.

 

It's also not wrong to question whether or not he'd be more productive than Barney based on those factors.

that i can agree with, but couldn't the same be said for the underperforming Stewart at third, which is listed as another of his positions, as is left field.

I look at it as we have many problems. too many to list. Barney isn't a problem, not necessarily a strength but not a problem. So why are we not looking at one of the more problematic areas? We have no young 3b that is to close to being ready. If Cardenas is better offensively than barney, then you have to say he'd probably be better than stewart. it would be nice if he could catch!

 

I'm setting myself to start the circular argument and upset all those tired of beating the dead horse but... It comes down to ceilings and potential output.

 

Stewart has hit the ball fairly hard and shown a better contact ratio at the plate, it hasn't translated yet given his raw power to hit the ball hard despite the results, there's optimism he'll improve his numbers the rest of the way. I'm not sold on him, I do want to see him elevated the ball more. He probably has more raw power than LaHair/everyone not named Rizzo and while he has made strides with contact, it might be at the expense of uppercut in his swing.

 

To me, Stewart, Barney, and Cardenas are probably all stop-gaps and to discuss one over the other is a very small point. But I feel Cardenas and Stewart are more likely to hit for a higher OPS than Barney, but don't know enough about Cardenas' defense to guarantee it would be a better move over Barney. Considering the state of the team, it has little bearing for the overall goal.

[UK1679666180]

Of course, if I was the Cubs (luckily for everyone I'm not) I'd hit the pitcher 8th, Barney 7th and Campana 9th, DeJesus 1, Castro 2nd, Lahair 3, Soriano 4th, and Stewart 5th.

 

It'll look much better once Jackson and Rizzo arrive.

 

i'd opt to use a 6 hitter.

 

Assume Soto/Clevenger/Lalli/Wrona/Castillo/(Cubs version) Benito Santiago are hitting 6th.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Thanks rooster for the info.

 

Of course that raises the question if he is cut because of his defense, why are we putting him in a spot where defense is usually slightly more important than offense?

 

Despite a lack of home run power, he always had a great bat. He's only 24, so there's still room for him to improve on his 2B defense, and for this reason he should be given as many opportunites to play the position as they can and use Barney as a utility guy which pretty much everyone knows he'll ultimately end up.

[neely crenshaw]

 

what are you stuck in the 1980's?

 

that's what I was told when talking about batting average...

in this case if you both get on base at a .325 clip, and the difference in slugging is so small, what is the difference in performance?

castro got singles where barney got walked...outcome? both on first.

so, 3 bases is the difference in their slugging, and the slugging is the difference in their OPS.

Nobody is talking about batting averages except you. Castro has 17 more total bases.

he also has 30 more plate appearances which you must factor in to the equation.

in 150 at bats, barney has 58 total bases. if he had 61total bases he would have a slugging percentage of .420

[UK1679666180]

Since we rearranging the deck chairs...where does Rizzo go? does he play first and La Hair go to left? where does Jackson go? if Campana continues, which I hope he does but have my doubts, does that move out Dejesus? obviously they can run a 4-man platoon situation but overall doesn't it make sense to play those 3 and not Dejesus for future considerations?

IF all that worked out, you might actually have 6 or 7 major league hitters on the field. that's a huge "if" though.

 

See if Lahair can be Glenallen Hill-like in LF and put Rizzo at 1B. Campana likely isn't going to keep it up, not enough bat speed nor ability to take walks to make up for his lack of power.

 

Hopefully, Jackson can start hitting again and pushes Campana into a 5th OF/pinch-runner type role.

[neely crenshaw]

Of course, if I was the Cubs (luckily for everyone I'm not) I'd hit the pitcher 8th, Barney 7th and Campana 9th, DeJesus 1, Castro 2nd, Lahair 3, Soriano 4th, and Stewart 5th.

 

It'll look much better once Jackson and Rizzo arrive.

 

i'd opt to use a 6 hitter.

 

Assume Soto/Clevenger/Lalli/Wrona/Castillo/(Cubs version) Benito Santiago are hitting 6th.

george mitterwald busy?

[neely crenshaw]

Since we rearranging the deck chairs...where does Rizzo go? does he play first and La Hair go to left? where does Jackson go? if Campana continues, which I hope he does but have my doubts, does that move out Dejesus? obviously they can run a 4-man platoon situation but overall doesn't it make sense to play those 3 and not Dejesus for future considerations?

IF all that worked out, you might actually have 6 or 7 major league hitters on the field. that's a huge "if" though.

 

See if Lahair can be Glenallen Hill-like in LF and put Rizzo at 1B. Campana likely isn't going to keep it up, not enough bat speed nor ability to take walks to make up for his lack of power.

 

Hopefully, Jackson can start hitting again and pushes Campana into a 5th OF/pinch-runner type role.

 

I have that feeling on Campana too. I really hope he can continue but I think when teams see him and his style a 2nd and 3rd go round, things will drop. It would be nice to have a few less holes to fill with free agents though. If we had Campana close to his .300 .360 clip, we could certainly deal with that if LaHair, Rizzo and Jackson all hit like we hope. It's probably a stretch though.

[neely crenshaw]

Thanks rooster for the info.

 

Of course that raises the question if he is cut because of his defense, why are we putting him in a spot where defense is usually slightly more important than offense?

 

Despite a lack of home run power, he always had a great bat. He's only 24, so there's still room for him to improve on his 2B defense, and for this reason he should be given as many opportunites to play the position as they can and use Barney as a utility guy which pretty much everyone knows he'll ultimately end up.

 

that makes sense and despite what was being painted I am not all about Barney as the nest big thing. He's not a problem, He's not a strength. At this point in a season, you don't have a lot of options to improve. It's a flier but you sign what is out there and see what happens..I get that. Obviously if we had options we would grab other spots but if they aren't there, they aren't there. we may see more on the wire after the draft. Former prospects may run into age limits, others being pushed up the ladder because of money considerations to make room for draftees, which will push older "prospects" out, could be some guys out of options and someone has to take their 40 man spot.

[davearm2]

bobby boy, batting average doesn't count. that has been what I have been told at every turn on this thread, and board.

OB% and obp matter, can't change that to fit your argument now

Don't forget the Starlin Exception: if everyone likes you and you don't walk much, then BA matters and OBP is ignored.

[Sammy Sofa]

bobby boy, batting average doesn't count. that has been what I have been told at every turn on this thread, and board.

OB% and obp matter, can't change that to fit your argument now

Don't forget the Starlin Exception: if everyone likes you and you don't walk much, then BA matters and OBP is ignored.

 

Great point; people never talk/complain/worry about Castro and walks here. NAILED IT.

[davearm2]

bobby boy, batting average doesn't count. that has been what I have been told at every turn on this thread, and board.

OB% and obp matter, can't change that to fit your argument now

Don't forget the Starlin Exception: if everyone likes you and you don't walk much, then BA matters and OBP is ignored.

 

Great point; people never talk/complain/worry about Castro and walks here. NAILED IT.

I refer you to the Olney thread in Transactions. No concern about walks in evidence there, as folks equate Castro's trade value to that of a young Alex Rodriguez.

[Tracer Bullet]

Since that's the only place Castro has ever been discussed here, that's great evidence in support of your position.

[Sammy Sofa]

DOUBLE NAILED IT.

[Geech]

all true.

not a huge difference between 24 and 26, at least as opposed to 26 and 32.

 

Why are you so obsessed with DeJesus? His playing time has absolutely nothing to do with Barney's.

[SouthSideRyan]

bobby boy, batting average doesn't count. that has been what I have been told at every turn on this thread, and board.

OB% and obp matter, can't change that to fit your argument now

Don't forget the Starlin Exception: if everyone likes you and you don't walk much, then BA matters and OBP is ignored.

 

Great point; people never talk/complain/worry about Castro and walks here. NAILED IT.

I refer you to the Olney thread in Transactions. No concern about walks in evidence there, as folks equate Castro's trade value to that of a young Alex Rodriguez.

 

CALL MOJO A RAPIST DAVE CALL HIM A RAPIST!!!

[Sammy Sofa]

"Not talking about Castro and walks in one thread = never talking about Castro and walks" is hilariously close to LCCF's "hypocritical dishonesty" thesis in the politics thread last night.

[davearm2]

Since that's the only place Castro has ever been discussed here, that's great evidence in support of your position.

Good point. In the last four pages of the Castro thread, walks were mentioned once. Lots of discussion going on. Tons of concern being expressed.

 

Oh wait. I bet that's the wrong place to look too.

[bcl412]

I've seen concern over his low walk total and lack of power this year on multiple occasions. Edited May 23, 2012 by bcl412

[Sammy Sofa]

Ugh, now we get a dave thing, too?

 

dave, there's been plenty of talk here about Castro's aggressive approach, especially since he's been holding down the #3 spot, and especially in the last week. I have no idea if the word "walk" was specifically mentioned enough for your liking, but if you're seriously going to try and pretend like nobody here has voiced any concern about his lack of patience/walking then you're just trying way too damn hard for some solidarity with neely.