Dale Sveum to re arrange the deck chairs

[Sammy Sofa]

Dejesus is easily a better hitter? really.

Barney hit better last year.

they are the same right now.

 

No, they're not.

 

DeJesus is 32 and very possibly trending down. Barney is 26 and at least has a chance to continue to improve.

seriously your going to use "career" on base percentage to decide trends when comparing an 11 year vet and a 2nd year guy? how about last year dejesus had on obp of .323 and barney .313, or that in 131 games DeJesus was on base 151 times, and in 143 barney was on base 168 times. Hey but Dejesus had a .444 obp 10 years ago so he must be that same player now!

 

HEY, WHY NOT USE THIS YEAR'S STATS AND SEE THAT ONE GUY HAS NEARLY 40 POINTS OF OBP ON THE OTHER GUY.

 

As for Dewitte. I guess if you aren't with the team, the games you started don't count?

 

again the overly intelligent poster miss the point. We aren't going anywhere. and the management is tweaking a few spots as needed but I realize it's more about seeing what everyone has. That being said, They brought in DeJesus, Stewart, Volstad, and others. They seem to have gotten every chance, and are still getting them. Why are we stuck on a 32 year old 270 hitter, who is not going to improve. We have Campana, who evidently is not a proto-typical lead-off man because there is no such thing, but is hitting over .300 and has the 360 obp, an a history of those stats coming up. He is also 26, and could continue to improve also. he runs like crazy, steals bases and despite your thoughts on a team that averages 3 runs a game, has no power on 2 other hitters hitting over .300 and is hitting .234 with RISP as a team. So every chance of getting to 2nd base counts.

 

Not saying anyone is better or even if it matters. But why not find out if campana could be that lead off guy. Why continue to try others at 2nd, and push down Barney rather than Stewart or DeJesus. Honestly, if Lahair was hitting .205 would he still be in the lineup? Again would samardjiza? it just seems like a trend that could be counter productive. All baseball people miss a lot of the time, In this year of evaluation, we have a pretty good idea what dejesus and stewart are going to be at even their best. If Barney and Campana are producing why not find out if they are for real? and getting a great deal on someone is fine but shouldn't be the reason we stick with them through thick and thin.

 

This is just...stupid.

 

DeJesus is contributing and getting on base at a good clip like you want a guy at the top of the lineup to do. He has a history and a skillset that indicate he's a decent bet to continue his success or even continue to improve on his numbers from last year. I have no idea what you're complaining about with Stewart; he usually hits 6th or 7rh in the lineup, so are you really crying about him not hitting 8th instead? And why can't the Cubs see what Barney and Campana can do if they're not hitting at the top? What, do their numbers not count from lower in the lineup?

[neely crenshaw]

no it's stupid that you either can't read or you read what someone else responds and run down a post that you clearly didn't fully read.

Nowhere did I say that Barney should replace DeJesus in the leadoff spot. I simply wonder why someone with very similar stats is dropped, sits for dewiite, who is gone, and cardenas who was released by the A's. while stewart and Dejesus are sent out everyday regardless of performance.

I did say that perhaps Campana should get a chance at lead off. For this season his obp is the same as Dejesus

now to defend my point,

yes, dejesus has a 40 point lead SO FAR. last year he had a 10 point lead over the course of the season. the nice thing about basbeall is that it is entirely possible that stats will actually change during a year. Likelyhood of a 11 year vet jumping his stats for an entire season is not likely. Dejesus' OBP has consistently gone done in each full season, whi h seems to say he is trending down away from that .444 obp he had 10 years ago. Barney has 1 year. He should/could continue to improve, which would give him a chance to still be here and contribute in 2 seasons. I don't see that with a 35 year old dejesus.

and again you guys are getting all worked up over a stat that in a short range doesnt' hold the same weight as for a full season. Yes, dejesus has a 40 point better obp. do you know what that the difference actually is right now? Barney gets on base roughly 20.5 times in 65 at bats. Dejesus gets on 22.8 times in 65 at bats. So you are worked up over a 32 year old player that so far is getting on base about 2 more times every 20 games.

 

again my point is why not evaluate the 26year olds and see what they have, instead of hanging on to a 32 year old that probably won't continue to perform at that rate this year but surely not in the next few.

[SouthSideRyan]

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

D-E-W-I-T-T

[SouthSideRyan]

Though I too am sick of David Dejesus starting at 2B

[SouthSideRyan]

Dejesus' OBP has consistently gone done in each full season, whi h seems to say he is trending down away from that .444 obp he had 10 years ago

 

lolololololololololololololololololololol

 

(This was his OBP over 10 PAs)

[neely crenshaw]

 

HEY, WHY NOT USE THIS YEAR'S STATS AND SEE THAT ONE GUY HAS NEARLY 40 POINTS OF OBP ON THE OTHER GUY.

 

 

For you mr stat guy. This years stats. If you even out the plate appearances, Dejesus has gotten on base 4.5 times more than Barney over 41 games. so 1.1 every 10 games? so you are just sure that he wont' fade at all, or barney won't improve. seriously you are looking at the future and you think 1.1 times on base in 10 games is a huge difference in stats? this is such a huge difference at this point that 1 game could bring them even.

after his 0-2 start tonight..he now leads by 35 points...an 0-4 would bring him under .350.

[Sammy Sofa]

no it's stupid that you either can't read or you read what someone else responds and run down a post that you clearly didn't fully read.

 

I "fully" read it just fine; it was a stupid post. LET'S GO TO THE BREAKDOWN:

 

Nowhere did I say that Barney should replace DeJesus in the leadoff spot. I simply wonder why someone with very similar stats is dropped, sits for dewiite, who is gone, and cardenas who was released by the A's. while stewart and Dejesus are sent out everyday regardless of performance.

 

Stewart is sent out, regardless of performance (which, again, is .246 .338 .456 .795 this month), because the Cubs don't have a better option at 3B and because they brought him with the express purpose of targeting a once highly touted young player they can buy low on. The idea was to play him as much as possible to see if he could turn things around, yet you're seemingly saying he should be on a short leash...why, exactly? Same deal with DeJesus, except he was an older, useful player they could buy low on and hopefully he'd have a bounceback year and they can move him at some point for a nice return, plus he's not blocking anyone. Barney is, however, at a position where he starter isn't as clearly defined, and you have or had have more than one young player at that spot and the Cubs want to see what they can do. You're talking about Barney like he should have had it locked down, but why?

 

I did say that perhaps Campana should get a chance at lead off. For this season his obp is the same as Dejesus

 

Which is great, but DeJesus is a better all-around hitter and Campana's stats still count even if they come from lower in the lineup. Why do you think he HAS to be hitting first for the Cubs to get an idea of what he can do? This isn't an issue of DeJesus blocking the other guys.

 

now to defend my point,

yes, dejesus has a 40 point lead SO FAR. last year he had a 10 point lead over the course of the season. the nice thing about basbeall is that it is entirely possible that stats will actually change during a year.

 

Right, so we can look at DeJesus' career numbers and get an idea as to whether last year was an off one or wheter he's capable of bouncing back.

 

Likelyhood of a 11 year vet jumping his stats for an entire season is not likely.

 

You mean "jumping" his OBP...back to his career level? Why the holy [expletive] would you think that wasn't likely? Playing 10+ years isn't some kind of Logan's Run-esque death sentence where a player's skills just all fall off of a cliff.

 

Dejesus' OBP has consistently gone done in each full season, whi h seems to say he is trending down away from that .444 obp he had 10 years ago.

 

Holy [expletive] [expletive].

 

Your standard for DeJesus is a [expletive] .444 OBP that he put up in his rookie season WHERE HE ONLY PLAYED IN 12 [expletive] GAMES?

 

I'm sorry, but this is the epitome of why I said your post was stupid, because of stuff just like this. Your "proof" that he's doomed to decline this season is because he hasn't matched his .444 OBP from 10 PA his first season? How can you possibly not realize how awful that is? Here, here's his OBP average for the rest of his career up through last year: .356. He's at .360 right now, and he's only been below .350 twice, in 2009 and 2011 when he put up .347 and .323. So why do you think his current OBP is so unsustainable?

 

Barney has 1 year. He should/could continue to improve, which would give him a chance to still be here and contribute in 2 seasons. I don't see that with a 35 year old dejesus.

 

DeJesus is 32. Again, they signed him on the cheap with the hope that he can bounce back and they can trade him. Barney is getting plenty of playing time. What are you even complaining about?

 

and again you guys are getting all worked up over a stat that in a short range doesnt' hold the same weight as for a full season.

 

I don't even...I don't...what?

 

Yes, dejesus has a 40 point better obp. do you know what that the difference actually is right now? Barney gets on base roughly 20.5 times in 65 at bats. Dejesus gets on 22.8 times in 65 at bats. So you are worked up over a 32 year old player that so far is getting on base about 2 more times every 20 games.

 

No, I'm not, because in no [expletive] sane universe is the Cubs' right fielder, David DeJesus, somehow taking away starts from their second baseman, Darwin Barney. Why are you looking at AB instead of PA?

 

again my point is why not evaluate the 26year olds and see what they have, instead of hanging on to a 32 year old that probably won't continue to perform at that rate this year but surely not in the next few.

 

DAVID DEJESUS ISN'T BLOCKING TONY CAMPANA OR DARWIN BARNEY FROM STARTING. WHY THE HOLY [expletive] ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HIM LIKE HE IS?

Edited May 22, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[Sammy Sofa]

 

HEY, WHY NOT USE THIS YEAR'S STATS AND SEE THAT ONE GUY HAS NEARLY 40 POINTS OF OBP ON THE OTHER GUY.

 

 

For you mr stat guy. This years stats. If you even out the plate appearances, Dejesus has gotten on base 4.5 times more than Barney over 41 games. so 1.1 every 10 games? so you are just sure that he wont' fade at all, or barney won't improve. seriously you are looking at the future and you think 1.1 times on base in 10 games is a huge difference in stats? this is such a huge difference at this point that 1 game could bring them even.

after his 0-2 start tonight..he now leads by 35 points...an 0-4 would bring him under .350.

 

WHAT IN THE HOLY HELL ARE YOU DOING.

[Soul]

Into the weeds man

[mul21]

 

DAVID DEJESUS ISN'T BLOCKING TONY CAMPANA OR DARWIN BARNEY FROM STARTING. WHY THE HOLY [expletive] ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HIM LIKE HE IS?

 

I'm glad you had the patience and took the time to wade through that monstrosity. I would have had a stroke attempting to decipher and refute that amount of absolute nonsense. There may have been a heroin in the forehead moment in there as well.

[Guest]

again the overly intelligent poster miss the point

Oh, goodness.

[neely crenshaw]

never said most of that.

never said DeJesus is blocking anyone

never said Barney should lead off

never said .444 was the drop off

never said stewart should be replaced

my main question, is if we are re-arranging "the deck chairs" why not re arrange them.

I asked why did barney get dropped to 8th, when he is clearly not the worst performing hitter.

I said, and feel that barney has a much better chance to improve as a major league hitter as opposed to dejesus who is 32, and on what seems to be a downward trend. Barney and Campana may not work out at all, but when we are looking losing 100 games, why not find out.

while stewart is having his "hot month", barney the 8th hitter's last month has raised his line for the season to .273 .322 .396 .718

you guys want to throw out stats for a month, or 40 games which are nice but don't mean they are the trend or will stay that way.

young guys have a chance to improve with experience. old guys, not so much. you can not look ay 10 year vets stats and think they will reach their career averages, if you do then you think that it's a good bet that soriano to hit .274 with 35 hrs 503 slugging and 826 ops even though he hasn't reached those levels in 5 seasons.

for the record..dejesus last 4 full seasons obp= .351, .366, .347, .323 his upswing was the 1 year he hit over .300. which out of 7 full seasons would seem like the anomaly not part of the trend. I didn't just look at last year and his first year, like it seems some of you did.

bottom line: with this team, how many more games will we win with dejesus leading off over campana or barney? i'll be nice and say 5, but truly it might not be any. heck if it was 10, where exactly does that put us?

we are a ways from contending. say we are ready in 2 more years. Dejesus will be 35. What type of player will he be? will he be here? is there a better chance that barney and or campana are still playing and relevant somewhere? has to be the case.

look at pitching dempster is far better than volstad or wood, but is there a better chance that they could still contribute in 2014 or dempster? so it makes sense to trot them out there as much as possible simply because they could improve, and chances are dempster will digress and not be here. aIf your thinking about sheer value to the team this year, dempster is much more valuable but most still think he's going to be traded this year..why is that different?

[Geech]

Why do you think it matters that DeJesus is leading off over Barney and Campana?

[Sammy Sofa]

Barney and Campana are regularly in the lineup, and can show what they can do whether they're hitting 1st or 8th. Your complaints are near-gibberish and pointless.

[SouthSideRyan]

barney the 8th hitter's last month has raised his line for the season to .273 .322 .396 .718

you guys want to throw out stats for a month, or 40 games which are nice but don't mean they are the trend or will stay that way.

 

THESE SENTENCES WERE WRITTEN CONSECUTIVELY

[Sammy Sofa]

No, you don't understand, Barney COULD get way better even though there's little reason to expect such a thing.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Everyone trying to argue with Neely is going to feel stupid upon coming to the realization that his post are not stupid arguements but rather brilliant beat poetry.

[bcl412]

I'm starting to think troll on this one.

[Geech]

I'm starting to think troll on this one.

 

Neely has been around way too long, and he has basically always been like this. If he's trolling, then he has some epic dedication to his craft.

[treebird]

barney the 8th hitter's last month has raised his line for the season to .273 .322 .396 .718

you guys want to throw out stats for a month, or 40 games which are nice but don't mean they are the trend or will stay that way.

 

THESE SENTENCES WERE WRITTEN CONSECUTIVELY

 

i think he's writing his posts like the lyrics on kid a where he just wrote dozens of individual sentences and is now throwing them out at random regardless of what comes before or after

[seanimal]

barney the 8th hitter's last month has raised his line for the season to .273 .322 .396 .718

you guys want to throw out stats for a month, or 40 games which are nice but don't mean they are the trend or will stay that way.

 

THESE SENTENCES WERE WRITTEN CONSECUTIVELY

 

i think he's writing his posts like the lyrics on kid a where he just wrote dozens of individual sentences and is now throwing them out at random regardless of what comes before or after

 

Tha Carter VI

[neely crenshaw]

barney the 8th hitter's last month has raised his line for the season to .273 .322 .396 .718

you guys want to throw out stats for a month, or 40 games which are nice but don't mean they are the trend or will stay that way.

 

THESE SENTENCES WERE WRITTEN CONSECUTIVELY

again, south side quit being a prick. that statement is a retort to the dumb @$$ post about stewarts hot month, I did not use that stat line first, it was to show he had just a good a small sample as the others, and that he is just as, if not more likely to improve his line as a guy with a longer track record.

that borders up there with taking offense to an e on Dewitt. by the way Ryun*, if you want to be prickish- D-E-W-I-T-T is wrong. It's Dewitt. Only caps on the first letter

[seanimal]

u so crazy

[davell]

Thank you to everyone, I had no clue what I was going to see this thread morph into. Best case scenario.

[Splendid Splinter]

Thank you to everyone, I had no clue what I was going to see this thread morph into. Best case scenario.

 

I seriously hope they don't lock this and the Ian Stewart threads. It's just mind-blowing incredible.

 

Also... who is this Neely guy? It looks like he joined here a long time ago, but I don't remember him being on here since I've joined (in 2009 although I've been reading this site since 2007)... until now.

 

Did someone FDB??