Wrigley Renovation Thread

[XZero771679666304]

Why do people bend over backwards to shield epstein from criticism. You are essentially saying that while you realize epstein sucks ass, he is being forced to suck ass and you know this unequivocally. Quit it with the [expletive] that the cubs need a [expletive] videoboard and some signs to make payroll. You are brainwashing yourself.

 

No one is bending over to shield Epstein from criticism. If the money isn't there, and every indication is that the Rickettses are not ripe with cash, what are you going to do? Unless you think Theo has all the money he wants and is simply choosing not to spend it, in which case I'd tend to think you were crazy.

 

No one knows what is going on "unequivocally", but there is a crapton of circumstantial evidence that there isn't a lot of money available.

[NOLA]

Why do people bend over backwards to shield epstein from criticism. You are essentially saying that while you realize epstein sucks ass, he is being forced to suck ass and you know this unequivocally. Quit it with the [expletive] that the cubs need a [expletive] videoboard and some signs to make payroll. You are brainwashing yourself.

First of all, there is actually a middle ground between bending over backwards to defend Theo and saying he "sucks ass". Most everyone has decided that while it sucks that the MLB team stinks, he does get a little bit more leash. You're the one that seems so damned certain how this is going down. Most everyone else is disappointed and but still is cautiously optimistic about the future. Settle down Francis.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't think Epstein sucks.

 

However, I also don't think we know that he's enough better than the other smart GMs around to deliver the kind of success that people keep banking on. Jim Hendry made the playoffs 3 times in nine seasons. Is Epstein going to match that? Beat it by 1?

 

He inherited an amazing team in Boston, and by the time he left they had missed the playoffs three out of the last six (and missed again the first year after he left). Is that the kind of success rate we're waiting through multiple years of awfulness for? I think that's a possibility.

 

I know he's better than Jim Hendry. I don't honestly know that he's better than Walt Jocketty. I don't even really know that he's better than Mozeliak or Huntington.

 

This whole narrative that everything he's built is the best in baseball because he's the best and of course anything he builds is the best ... I just think it's fandom run amok.

 

We're not going to be awful forever. Eventually this experimental fantasy rebuild he's using our franchise to try out is going to turn into a team full of young players. And if he gets lucky in three short series in one season, then I guess we'll spike the football and call it a success. But I don't think it's going to be nearly as easy as many people seem to think to have a run of "sustained success" that we're supposed to be aiming for.

[Ryne Ween]

My name is Frank. I dont really want to hear "The MLB team stinks". Thats the only team anybody should care about. Maybe he doesnt suck ass i dont know. I think they are being conservative and they have a huge appetite for losing while sticking to their plan.

 

I challenge one thing though that you said. Dont say every indication is that Ricketts is strapped. We dont know that. We only know that he or Theo, is choosing to not spend.

[NOLA]

I don't think Epstein sucks.

 

However, I also don't think we know that he's enough better than the other smart GMs around to deliver the kind of success that people keep banking on. Jim Hendry made the playoffs 3 times in nine seasons. Is Epstein going to match that? Beat it by 1?

 

He inherited an amazing team in Boston, and by the time he left they had missed the playoffs three out of the last six (and missed again the first year after he left). Is that the kind of success rate we're waiting through multiple years of awfulness for? I think that's a possibility.

 

I know he's better than Jim Hendry. I don't honestly know that he's better than Walt Jocketty. I don't even really know that he's better than Mozeliak or Huntington.

 

This whole narrative that everything he's built is the best in baseball because he's the best and of course anything he builds is the best ... I just think it's fandom run amok.

 

We're not going to be awful forever. Eventually this experimental fantasy rebuild he's using our franchise to try out is going to turn into a team full of young players. And if he gets lucky in three short series in one season, then I guess we'll spike the football and call it a success. But I don't think it's going to be nearly as easy as many people seem to think to have a run of "sustained success" that we're supposed to be aiming for.

I have no problem with calling Theo into question, but few if any are saying these things that you are putting in people's mouths. Most of us are pissed it's taking so long but we see a method to the madness. The rebuild is anything but fantasy. Whatever you think about anything else, the Cubs organization has a solid foundation of talent and coaching in the system.

Now if all of this develops the way we hope, and then we don't sign a key free agent to put us into contention, then that's another story.

[davell]

Why do people bend over backwards to shield epstein from criticism. You are essentially saying that while you realize epstein sucks ass, he is being forced to suck ass and you know this unequivocally. Quit it with the [expletive] that the cubs need a [expletive] videoboard and some signs to make payroll. You are brainwashing yourself.

 

If there is no money to spend, how in the [expletive] is Theo the main one at blame here? You think he's lying about payroll? Nothing Ricketts has done has made me think they are just sitting on wads of cash.

[davell]

I think that there is a general group of good GM's and that Theo/Jed fall in that group. Friedman likely gets my vote as the best of that group, but I think they're all close. Which DOES make it hard for our group to rebuild, as others are likely going to be just as proficient at it. McLeod is the most important guy we've got, considering the path we've gone. If he's right on the picks, he'll get more credit from me than anyone else, once we're winning.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It seems like lately there's been a run of problems that make me really wonder if they're going to be able to maximize the results once they decide they're done stockpiling assets. You can't have things like "oops, we broke Starlin Castro" or "Don't see anything we like this offseason, pass" when you are trying to compete.

[davell]

It seems like lately there's been a run of problems that make me really wonder if they're going to be able to maximize the results once they decide they're done stockpiling assets. You can't have things like "oops, we broke Starlin Castro" or "Don't see anything we like this offseason, pass" when you are trying to compete.

 

Well, they have the opportunity to fix Castro. Which they need to do. I'm not sure they would have passed on this offseason, if Tanaka had been posted much earlier. That said, the fact they're saying they saved money this offseason DOES create the expectation it will be spent soon. Next year at the latest, in my mind.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It seems like lately there's been a run of problems that make me really wonder if they're going to be able to maximize the results once they decide they're done stockpiling assets. You can't have things like "oops, we broke Starlin Castro" or "Don't see anything we like this offseason, pass" when you are trying to compete.

 

Well, they have the opportunity to fix Castro. Which they need to do. I'm not sure they would have passed on this offseason, if Tanaka had been posted much earlier. That said, the fact they're saying they saved money this offseason DOES create the expectation it will be spent soon. Next year at the latest, in my mind.

 

I imagine there's a good chance it will be needed next year to make up for the 300k loss in attendance they are projecting.

[davell]

It seems like lately there's been a run of problems that make me really wonder if they're going to be able to maximize the results once they decide they're done stockpiling assets. You can't have things like "oops, we broke Starlin Castro" or "Don't see anything we like this offseason, pass" when you are trying to compete.

 

Well, they have the opportunity to fix Castro. Which they need to do. I'm not sure they would have passed on this offseason, if Tanaka had been posted much earlier. That said, the fact they're saying they saved money this offseason DOES create the expectation it will be spent soon. Next year at the latest, in my mind.

 

I imagine there's a good chance it will be needed next year to make up for the 300k loss in attendance they are projecting.

Did I miss that? Where is that projection?

 

Personally, I think that bringing up Javy and KB possibly keeps that from happening this year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

There was a report last fall that Cubs internal projections have attendance at 2.3m this upcoming year.

 

It makes sense with all the trouble they seem to be having selling season tickets.

[davell]

Not even the thread to put this in, but......

 

E-Jax 11

Castro 6

Soler 2

Rizzo 5

Sweeney 1.5

Concepcion 1.2

 

That's literally all we're committed to next year. 26.7 million. That's it.

 

Guys in arb(if they're not dealt)

Shark Arb3(dealt)if not, let's go with 10 mill

Wood Arb2(7mill)

Barney Arb2(dealt or DFA)if not, let's go with 3.5

Ruggiano Arb2(3mill)

Russell Arb3(dealt)if not, lets go with 2.3

Valbuena Arb3(2.5mill)

Strop Arb2(2mill)

Wright Arb3(2mill)

Kottaras Arb4(1.5mill)

Murphy Arb3(DFA'd in my opinion) if not let's go with 1.3

Castillo Arb1(3.5mill)

Arrieta Arb1(2mill)

Vizcaino Arb1(800k)

 

Both Veras and Fujikawa have 5.5 mill options with a total of 650k in buyouts. Can't see either being kept.

 

Counting buyouts, that'd be 51.650 in salary not counting pre-arb guys in what I think actually happens. If EVERYONE(but Fujikawa and Veras) is back, it's around 68.75.

 

If we don't have a pair of major signings next offseason, I'll be shocked. It's likely we can do it AND keep our payroll around where it is right now.

[NOLA]

See, that's why I'm thinking, too. There are a ton of ifs to be answered, but there are also a ton of things that could make 2015 pretty damned exciting.

[treebird]

See, that's why I'm thinking, too. There are a ton of ifs to be answered, but there are also a ton of things that could make 2015 pretty damned exciting.

 

castro rebounds + rizzo rebounds + baez indicates he can play third in 2015 + bryant indicates he can play right in 2015 + we sign scherzer + we sign someone else but i have no idea whom since all the position players who fit suck and there's no way we're signing one big starting pitcher, let alone two = still a pretty mediocre team in in 2015. and it's very, very unlikely all of those things actually happen.

 

yes, there are other good things you can substitute for these, but they are all either way less likely to actually happen (olt gets the levar burton headband over his eyes and doesn't suck) or of considerably lesser value (we trade samardzija the 3 win pitcher for two guys who might be 2 win pitchers in 2015).

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

They should play on Kerry Wood's little league field.

[ctcf]

lol Concepcion. Totally forgot about him

[SouthSideRyan]

Define "major" davell. Our payroll is 85 this year. We can't make one major signing and keep payroll where it is. I'm sure we can find 2 more jason hammels though after max Scherzer signs some "crazy" contract that some stupid team will regret 5 years from now

[Backtobanks]

I don't think Epstein sucks.

 

However, I also don't think we know that he's enough better than the other smart GMs around to deliver the kind of success that people keep banking on. Jim Hendry made the playoffs 3 times in nine seasons. Is Epstein going to match that? Beat it by 1?

 

He inherited an amazing team in Boston, and by the time he left they had missed the playoffs three out of the last six (and missed again the first year after he left). Is that the kind of success rate we're waiting through multiple years of awfulness for? I think that's a possibility.

 

I know he's better than Jim Hendry. I don't honestly know that he's better than Walt Jocketty. I don't even really know that he's better than Mozeliak or Huntington.

 

This whole narrative that everything he's built is the best in baseball because he's the best and of course anything he builds is the best ... I just think it's fandom run amok.

 

We're not going to be awful forever. Eventually this experimental fantasy rebuild he's using our franchise to try out is going to turn into a team full of young players. And if he gets lucky in three short series in one season, then I guess we'll spike the football and call it a success. But I don't think it's going to be nearly as easy as many people seem to think to have a run of "sustained success" that we're supposed to be aiming for.

 

I questioned all of the enthusiasm shown here when Theo was hired because it seemed like many of the posters thought that all of baseball was going to roll over and allow Theo to draft and sign the best players and get the best of every trade made. As you pointed out, many executives have caught up to (and maybe passed) Theo since his early days in Boston. As for the money issue, it still looks to me like they're choosing not to spend rather than not having it to spend.

[Guest]

See, that's why I'm thinking, too. There are a ton of ifs to be answered, but there are also a ton of things that could make 2015 pretty damned exciting.

 

castro rebounds + rizzo rebounds + baez indicates he can play third in 2015 + bryant indicates he can play right in 2015 + we sign scherzer + we sign someone else but i have no idea whom since all the position players who fit suck and there's no way we're signing one big starting pitcher, let alone two = still a pretty mediocre team in in 2015. and it's very, very unlikely all of those things actually happen.

 

yes, there are other good things you can substitute for these, but they are all either way less likely to actually happen (olt gets the levar burton headband over his eyes and doesn't suck) or of considerably lesser value (we trade samardzija the 3 win pitcher for two guys who might be 2 win pitchers in 2015).

 

If all those things happen (of course it depends on the extent to which a lot of those vague statements go - i.e what does castro rebound actually mean, what does baez can play 3b mean), I see more than a pretty mediocre team...am I crazy?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

If we don't have a pair of major signings next offseason, I'll be shocked. It's likely we can do it AND keep our payroll around where it is right now.

 

I honestly think this exact sentence could have been posted in 2011, 2012 and 2013 as well.

 

It doesn't matter if they have the money, they just don't want to do it.

 

Unless everything goes absurdly well this year and we win 85 games, we're still going to be a bad team and major free agents are still going to be 30+ and looking for long-term deals deep into their decline. The front office has made it clear they don't want to do that with both words and actions, even if it means leaving money on the table.

[SouthSideRyan]

~85 wins depending on a shark trade?

[Guest]

~85 wins depending on a shark trade?

 

as a projection, 85 wins is pretty good though.

[SouthSideRyan]

~85 wins depending on a shark trade?

 

as a projection, 85 wins is pretty good though.

 

Well yeah but that "projection" includes a lot of unlikely events

[Guest]

~85 wins depending on a shark trade?

 

as a projection, 85 wins is pretty good though.

 

Well yeah but that "projection" includes a lot of unlikely events

 

Yeah, I'm just saying, if that stuff happened, I don't see a mediocre team like Tree said. But there's a lot of vagueness in that stuff that has to happen, so whatever.