Wrigley Renovation Thread

[Guest]

I'm not going to deny that we needed all this modernizing.

 

But when you get to "and that's going to lead to sustained success" that's where you lose me. They haven't shown me anything that says they can pull off sustained success with this team.

First, there's the little problem of losing a bunch of years in a row at the beginning not really being sustained success. But even putting that aside, all they've managed to do to date on the baseball side is put together a pile of young players that is arguably the third-best in the division. I still don't know why I should like the 2017 Cubs more than I like the 2017 Cardinals or Pirates (and while the Reds face some challenges, I don't think they should be ruled out of the conversation entirely).

 

The whole plan seems to be "once we get things going, even if it takes us longer than we hoped, it'll be a non-stop express train to awesometown because we're just that good," and I don't see it. This is the still the front office that hired Dale Sveum, paid Gerardo Concepcion and broke Starlin Castro. It's the front office that punted on an entire offseason, not being able to find anything productive long-term to do. Once the goals are finally a bit loftier than moving up the prospect lists, these are the kinds of mistakes that are going to stop them from running off three or four division titles in a row.

 

And that's just on the baseball side, which is the more competent of the two halves of the operation. I don't know if or when we'll ever see an end to the business side's bunglings.

 

 

I don't agree at all with your assessment of the competence of our baseball front office.

 

That aside, the reason those improvements (and I'm talking everything from renovated Wrigley to the TV deal) will help lead to sustained success is the increase in revenue.

 

I realize that a big part of why you might see it this way is that you think our FO is going to be operating in the same risk-averse way they are now in free agency even when they have the means and the team to do it with. I don't agree with you on that. I think that when they need to spend inefficiently to get those wins on the margins that will put them ahead of the Cardinals and Pirates, they will.

 

I don't necessarily agree with them in that they should be avoiding it now, but I don't think they'll be avoiding it forever. The financial advantages will be huge.

 

 

And if you don't deny that we needed all of this modernizing but don't think it will lead to success, why do you not deny that it was needed?

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm not sure what a nightmare owner is if it's not what's happened since Ricketts took over.

 

I guess he could have kept Hendry.

 

FWIW, a nightmare owner to me would've been someone who, in the case of this franchise, would have left it on autopilot, not addressed any of the rest of the organization and just kept the team interesting enough to print money while not really having a long term vision of any sort.

 

His first two years were nightmarish since he did keep Hendry far longer than necessary.

[Guest]

I'm not sure what a nightmare owner is if it's not what's happened since Ricketts took over.

 

I guess he could have kept Hendry.

 

FWIW, a nightmare owner to me would've been someone who, in the case of this franchise, would have left it on autopilot, not addressed any of the rest of the organization and just kept the team interesting enough to print money while not really having a long term vision of any sort.

 

His first two years were nightmarish since he did keep Hendry far longer than necessary.

 

I can't disagree with that. Honestly.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

It was needed to keep us from falling further behind.

 

I don't doubt that you can draw a line between the decay of the organization and the neglect that began with MacPhail having half a foot out the door. I'm glad that's getting fixed now.

 

But that doesn't justify the different mistakes they are making. Instead of neglecting non-Wrigley facilities, they're neglecting the MLB team. Instead of patchworking Wrigley Field, they're botching the renovation project for almost five years now.

 

This ownership may be screwing things up in different ways than the Tribune did, but they're still screwing it up.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm dubious about giving the ownership credit for stadium renovations that still haven't broken ground 2 years later. And it's laughable to give them credit for a tv deal that still hasn't been inked. As if John Canning would have moved them to strictly radio broadcasts

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm dubious about giving the ownership credit for stadium renovations that still haven't broken ground 2 years later. And it's laughable to give them credit for a tv deal that still hasn't been inked. As if John Canning would have moved them to strictly radio broadcasts

 

They talked renovations the day they bought the team.

 

 

David seems to be willing to compliment people for allowing time to continue running in a straight line.

[Guest]

I'm dubious about giving the ownership credit for stadium renovations that still haven't broken ground 2 years later. And it's laughable to give them credit for a tv deal that still hasn't been inked. As if John Canning would have moved them to strictly radio broadcasts

 

They talked renovations the day they bought the team.

 

 

David seems to be willing to compliment people for allowing time to continue running in a straight line.

 

I'm not complimenting anyone and am unhappy with a lot of things. I also think they've had to deal with lots of obstacles and I'm not sure how much better (in terms of results) this whole renovation thing (and TV deal) could have been handled. I'm not sure any owner would've come in and gotten the renovation issue settled any quicker. The TV deal they were left with is also a massive hindrance. I'm not trying to give ownership credit for a TV deal he hasn't gotten yet; I'm granting some leeway for a tough path and pointing toward something that is going to be a massive contributing factor when we see substantial improvements.

Edited February 13, 2014 by David

[KingCubsFan]

I'm not sure what a nightmare owner is if it's not what's happened since Ricketts took over.

 

I guess he could have kept Hendry.

 

FWIW, a nightmare owner to me would've been someone who, in the case of this franchise, would have left it on autopilot, not addressed any of the rest of the organization and just kept the team interesting enough to print money while not really having a long term vision of any sort.

 

His first two years were nightmarish since he did keep Hendry far longer than necessary.

But according to Kyle, he presided over a mini dynasty at Clark & Addison. How could Ricketts possibly have let him go?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

But according to Kyle, he presided over a mini dynasty at Clark & Addison. How could Ricketts possibly have let him go?

 

It's like the Cubs' version of Godwin's Law. Whenever someone starts to make good points that maybe Emperor Epstein is only partially clothed, Hendry gets brought up as a deflection.

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not sure what a nightmare owner is if it's not what's happened since Ricketts took over.

 

I guess he could have kept Hendry.

 

FWIW, a nightmare owner to me would've been someone who, in the case of this franchise, would have left it on autopilot, not addressed any of the rest of the organization and just kept the team interesting enough to print money while not really having a long term vision of any sort.

 

His first two years were nightmarish since he did keep Hendry far longer than necessary.

But according to Kyle, he presided over a mini dynasty at Clark & Addison. How could Ricketts possibly have let him go?

 

Relative to 4 years of ricketts the 03-08 cubs were [expletive] Ming

[jersey cubs fan]

I'm dubious about giving the ownership credit for stadium renovations that still haven't broken ground 2 years later. And it's laughable to give them credit for a tv deal that still hasn't been inked. As if John Canning would have moved them to strictly radio broadcasts

 

They talked renovations the day they bought the team.

 

 

David seems to be willing to compliment people for allowing time to continue running in a straight line.

 

I'm not complimenting anyone and am unhappy with a lot of things. I also think they've had to deal with lots of obstacles and I'm not sure how much better (in terms of results) this whole renovation thing (and TV deal) could have been handled. I'm not sure any owner would've come in and gotten the renovation issue settled any quicker. The TV deal they were left with is also a massive hindrance. I'm not trying to give ownership credit for a TV deal he hasn't gotten yet, I'm granting some leeway for a tough path and pointing toward something that is going to be a massive contributing factor when we substantive improvements.

 

They stepped into a situation with one of the top earnings team in the league as well as one of the most beloved, with a fan base and stadium that provides an absurdly forgiving cushion when it comes to staying around in tough times. They were obviously a mismanaged organization, but they were still quite healthy and capable of avoiding the embarrassment that they have provided over.

[KingCubsFan]

But according to Kyle, he presided over a mini dynasty at Clark & Addison. How could Ricketts possibly have let him go?

 

It's like the Cubs' version of Godwin's Law. Whenever someone starts to make good points that maybe Emperor Epstein is only partially clothed, Hendry gets brought up as a deflection.

Hard not to when you spin things like this

 

When the Tribune sold the team, the Cubs were a year removed from a top-10 farm system, were drawing 3.2m fans, and had come off three consecutive winning seasons.

 

I long for that sort of terribleness.

[Ryne Ween]

Im not evaluating them from this point forward. Im evaluating from the purchase. This is so much worse than I could have ever imagined. Winning the 2019 WS is not enough. Improving the farm system is not impressive when you do so at the detriment of the big league team. Its pretty easy to select the unanimous best available player at #2 af a 100 loss season. Almora and Baez are guys good teams cant draft. Alcantara is Hendry and they bought Soler. Its not hard to stockpile prospects when you ignore your big league team, trade anything of mlb value and lose as many games as possible.

[jersey cubs fan]

But according to Kyle, he presided over a mini dynasty at Clark & Addison. How could Ricketts possibly have let him go?

 

It's like the Cubs' version of Godwin's Law. Whenever someone starts to make good points that maybe Emperor Epstein is only partially clothed, Hendry gets brought up as a deflection.

Hard not to when you spin things like this

 

When the Tribune sold the team, the Cubs were a year removed from a top-10 farm system, were drawing 3.2m fans, and had come off three consecutive winning seasons.

 

I long for that sort of terribleness.

 

It's not hard to interpret that like an intelligent person. Everybody makes up nonsense about what a terrible situation these people inherited. The Tribune/MacPhail/Hendry era left a lot to be desired and failed to take advantage of many opportunities to dominate. But they did no worse than what the Ricketts/Epstein era has produced so far.

[jersey cubs fan]

Im not evaluating them from this point forward. Im evaluating from the purchase. This is so much worse than I could have ever imagined. Winning the 2019 WS is not enough. Improving the farm system is not impressive when you do so at the detriment of the big league team. Its pretty easy to select the unanimous best available player at #2 af a 100 loss season. Almora and Baez are guys good teams cant draft. Alcantara is Hendry and they bought Soler. Its not hard to stockpile prospects when you ignore your big league team, trade anything of mlb value and lose as many games as possible.

 

These guys didn't draft Baez.

[jersey cubs fan]

Do you prefer:

 

a - mean - able

 

or,

 

a - men - able?

[Ryne Ween]

It's not hard to interpret that like an intelligent person. Everybody makes up nonsense about what a terrible situation these people inherited. The Tribune/MacPhail/Hendry era left a lot to be desired and failed to take advantage of many opportunities to dominate. But they did no worse than what the Ricketts/Epstein era has produced so far.

 

The Trib-Hendry-Zell era of '03-'09 was 3 playoff appearances and .519%. Then they sold the team for a massive financial gain with a favorable transaction structure. So id say baseball-wise it was decent and business-wise it was phenomenally well executed. To match that nightmare we need to win the division and 103 games in each of the next 3 years and then sell the team for a trillion dollars.

[Sammy Sofa]

Even when we were winning for a couple of years, I knew that it would be short lived, I knew that there was nothing resembling good player development and that the amateur scouting was horrible, I knew that our front office was trapped in a time-warp at least 25 years behind and that our GM was an old school moron. I think we all knew most of that stuff.

 

Not really, because I figured/hoped that whoever bought the team wouldn't be like #poortomricketts. I mean, you really expected that the new owners of an organization of this scope would then effectively be forced to just start from scratch and basically build a team from the ground up internally?

[Ryne Ween]

Im not evaluating them from this point forward. Im evaluating from the purchase. This is so much worse than I could have ever imagined. Winning the 2019 WS is not enough. Improving the farm system is not impressive when you do so at the detriment of the big league team. Its pretty easy to select the unanimous best available player at #2 af a 100 loss season. Almora and Baez are guys good teams cant draft. Alcantara is Hendry and they bought Soler. Its not hard to stockpile prospects when you ignore your big league team, trade anything of mlb value and lose as many games as possible.

 

These guys didn't draft Baez.

 

So the entire basis for any optimism for this franchise is two hendry-era picks and a guy that woulda been autodrafted? Is there anything positive that this regime, baseball or business, that I can appropriately attribute to them?

[KingCubsFan]

But according to Kyle, he presided over a mini dynasty at Clark & Addison. How could Ricketts possibly have let him go?

 

It's like the Cubs' version of Godwin's Law. Whenever someone starts to make good points that maybe Emperor Epstein is only partially clothed, Hendry gets brought up as a deflection.

Hard not to when you spin things like this

 

When the Tribune sold the team, the Cubs were a year removed from a top-10 farm system, were drawing 3.2m fans, and had come off three consecutive winning seasons.

 

I long for that sort of terribleness.

 

It's not hard to interpret that like an intelligent person. Everybody makes up nonsense about what a terrible situation these people inherited. The Tribune/MacPhail/Hendry era left a lot to be desired and failed to take advantage of many opportunities to dominate. But they did no worse than what the Ricketts/Epstein era has produced so far.

He inherited crap, which we all know and is what everyone said at the time the was made. People just like to engage in revisionist history now in an attempt to be overly critical/cynical. When Ricketts took over, they had an (at-best) .500 team with an aging roster, the worst player facilities in the game, a stadium in direpair, the smallest front office, probably spent next to nothing on player and development, and utilized player evaluation techniques that were dated by at least 25 years. Quite simply, Ricketts inherited a dump, a disaster, a piece of [expletive]. And while he certainly deserves some blame for the way the renovation process has gone, there is no doubt that the organization is in a better position than it was four years ago. The fact that people actually try to argue to the contrary is laughable.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The revisionist history is on your end, I'm afraid. Every year that goes by, the "inherited" portion seems to get worse.

 

You can tell that the organization is better because the team is worse, there's been no significant progress made on the stadium and attendance is projected to be down 800k (using the team's internal projections of 2.3m for 2014).

[Hairyducked Idiot]

So the entire basis for any optimism for this franchise is two hendry-era picks and a guy that woulda been autodrafted? Is there anything positive that this regime, baseball or business, that I can appropriately attribute to them?

 

Nothing that they didn't buy with lost seasons.

 

Well, maybe Travis Wood.

[SouthSideRyan]

Thats not entirely fair. The actual instruction in the minors is most likely improved

[Ryne Ween]

Thats not entirely fair. The actual instruction in the minors is most likely improved

 

I wish i rooted for a team thats only success over the last 4 years was a potential improvement in minor league instruction.

[NOLA]

Thats not entirely fair. The actual instruction in the minors is most likely improved

 

I wish i rooted for a team thats only success over the last 4 years was a potential improvement in minor league instruction.

Now that's just silly. And this is a false argument, comparing the first 3+ years of a organizational rebuild to the entire regime of Hendry. Apples and oranges at this point.