Sean Marshall traded: T Wood +prospects Sappelt &Torreys p21

[Illini Iceman]

We gave up a reliever and got back a possible 3 and two prospects. Yeah we won this trade. Maybe the Pirates should have done more of this and less giving away Arams and Jason Bays for nothing.

 

BOBBY HILL IS NOT NOTHING!!!!!!

[toonsterwu]

It's fun to read yinz guys reaction to this trade n'at.

 

Good left handed relievers are not a dime a dozen, but a sought after commodity.

 

How about good left-handed starters?

 

Marshall is listed as a reliever in the MLBTR article. Are you suggesting he's a starter? Or are you referring to Travis Wood? Either way, he's a back end of the rotation starter. Not a commodity to be taken lightly, but still, a 3 at best.

 

From MLBTR: "Baseball America ranked Sappelt and Torreyes as the Reds'20th and 22nd best prospects in last year's Prospect Handbook, respectively."

 

You got a back end starter and two fringe prospects. A good trade, perhaps, but nothing that's going to put any team over the top.

 

That ranking came before Torreyes showed elite contact skills in regular season A ball as an 18-year-old. He would have been much higher in the coming lists.

No one is really projecting him to be a star. The guy weighs 14o lbs. how many 140 lb major leaguers are there ? Yeah, he's young and will fill out. Maybe he'll rank higher this year, but even so, would he crack anyone's (including ours!) top ten list?

 

Yes, Torreyes would crack some top 10 lists. While I don't buy him in the Cubs top 10, there are some pretty bad systems out there. There are also some systems that level off real quick after the top tier. I'd imagine (haven't really pondered it that much) that he'd crack the top 10 for at least the bottom 5-6 systems in the game (heck ... after the Latos trade, he was probably top 10 in many Reds Top 10 lists.)

 

Btw, he wouldn't be top 10 in the Pirates system. You guys have a good system. Borderline top 10 system in the game probably.

Edited December 23, 2011 by toonsterwu

[Jake]

We gave up a reliever and got back a possible 3 and two prospects. Yeah we won this trade. Maybe the Pirates should have done more of this and less giving away Arams and Jason Bays for nothing.

No one outside of Chicago liked the Amram trade. Get over that one. The front office that did that trade is long gone. Should be gone longer, but that's water under the bridge.

 

First of all, you can't bring up the Bay trade with out bringing up the Nady trade if you want to trash our team. And, to be honest, our current FO, for the most part, sucks when it comes to acquiring major league talent other than the bullpen.

 

But, as you bring up the Bay trade, perhaps you should read what the press was saying about that trade at the time it happened, and reconsider this trade.

[Jake]

Yes, Torreyes would crack some top 10 lists. While I don't buy him in the Cubs top 10, there are some pretty bad systems out there. There are also some systems that level off real quick after the top tier. I'd imagine (haven't really pondered it that much) that he'd crack the top 10 for at least the bottom 5-6 systems in the game (heck ... after the Latos trade, he was probably top 10 in many Reds Top 10 lists.)

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

 

Btw, he wouldn't be top 10 in the Pirates system. You guys have a good system. Borderline top 10 system in the game probably.

Yeah, but our strategy of overpaying for draft picks (See Josh Bell, Stetson Allie) was removed from the CBA, so our time of being good is probably over.

[Jake]

We gave up a reliever and got back a possible 3 and two prospects. Yeah we won this trade. Maybe the Pirates should have done more of this and less giving away Arams and Jason Bays for nothing.

 

BOBBY HILL IS NOT NOTHING!!!!!!

I'm sure he's a decent human being. But I'm glad he's no longer playing baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates.

[toonsterwu]

If you skim my posts in this thread, I'm not exactly jumping for joy for Torreyes, so no, I probably wouldn't give him a "ringing endorsement". That said, you asked if he would be in any team's top 10's. I like him enough, just don't love him, and think his potential ceiling is an average starting 2nd baseman that hits at the top of the order.

 

He was one of the better Reds options after the top tier of guys (Meso was untouchable, Cozart probably as well, then came Corcino). That speaks more to how I feel about the Reds system after the Latos trade, but Torreyes is probably more intriguing than a Todd Frazier for the direction this FO wants to go.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's fun to read yinz guys reaction to this trade n'at.

 

Good left handed relievers are not a dime a dozen, but a sought after commodity. Look at all of the teams looking for a good one.

 

From MLBTR: "Baseball America ranked Sappelt and Torreyes as the Reds'20th and 22nd best prospects in last year's Prospect Handbook, respectively."

 

You got a back end starter and two fringe prospects. A good trade, perhaps, but nothing that's going to put any team over the top.

 

Hey, if anyone's familiar with their team trading any and all remotely valuable players for prospects that don't pan out :lol:

 

Ain't it the truth. And this, my friend, looks like a Pirate trade.

 

Sadly, when I first heard of the rebuild my first thought was that that's what it could come down to and we don't have an Aramis Ramirez, Jason Bay or Nate McClouth to offer.

[illiniguy]

Jake he was a reliever we had for one more year. Getting any kind of value back for him is a win. Why is that so hard to figure out? Marshall is more valuable to a good team, we aren't a good team. Wood will be in our rotation, this makes us better. Plus we got two lottery tickets. One of which had a great year as an eighteen year old in the Midwest league.

[Jake]

Jake he was a reliever we had for one more year. Getting any kind of value back for him is a win. Why is that so hard to figure out? Marshall is more valuable to a good team, we aren't a good team. Wood will be in our rotation, this makes us better. Plus we got two lottery tickets. One of which had a great year as an eighteen year old in the Midwest league.

 

This is actually a good assessment of the trade.

 

But, some of the accolades of this trade written earlier (traderape !), well, that's what is hard to figure out.

[mookie]

Jake he was a reliever we had for one more year. Getting any kind of value back for him is a win. Why is that so hard to figure out? Marshall is more valuable to a good team, we aren't a good team. Wood will be in our rotation, this makes us better. Plus we got two lottery tickets. One of which had a great year as an eighteen year old in the Midwest league.

 

This is actually a good assessment of the trade.

 

But, some of the accolades of this trade written earlier (traderape !), well, that's what is hard to figure out.

 

Jake, how do you feel about Pedro Alvarez? Why aren't they keeping him at third?

[javy knows my name]

I really love this trade, and I think this might be the fruits of some careful misdirection by Theo and co. The signings of Dejesus and Johnson, for instance, would not be typical of a club undergoing a full rebuild and punting the next season. However, they were necessary to plant some doubt in the (admittedly dumber of the) GM's minds in order to maximize Marshall's value in a trade.

 

Now I fully expect us to do something strange that breaks the rebuild mode again (sign Kuroda for a 2-3 year incentive-laden deal, for instance) before we dump Garza for a king's ransom. And I'd be just fine with that.

[Jake]

Jake, how do you feel about Pedro Alvarez? Why aren't they keeping him at third?

Pedro, to be kind, Sucked last year.

 

The optimist in me says he'll be OK. There's just too much power there.

 

As for position, even before he was drafted, people were saying he'd eventually be a 1B. He's a big guy who has a reputation of not being mobile. Let's see what happens this season. Many pirate fans have written him off already. Me? I think there's too much talent there. He's supposedly in great shape right now. Let's see what he does this year.

 

Having said that, his output last year is why we got McGeehee (sp?)

[mookie]

Jake, how do you feel about Pedro Alvarez? Why aren't they keeping him at third?

Pedro, to be kind, Sucked last year.

 

The optimist in me says he'll be OK. There's just too much power there.

 

As for position, even before he was drafted, people were saying he'd eventually be a 1B. He's a big guy who has a reputation of not being mobile. Let's see what happens this season. Many pirate fans have written him off already. Me? I think there's too much talent there. He's supposedly in great shape right now. Let's see what he does this year.

 

Having said that, his output last year is why we got McGeehee (sp?)

 

Yeah, he has the potential to be a stud. I know he came into camp overweight last season, but I saw him make some pretty nice plays at third. I just think it is a shame they are already moving him off of the hot corner.

 

To date, Pedro Alvarez is the only prospect I have gone to a spring training game just to see play.

[Rob]

I really love this trade, and I think this might be the fruits of some careful misdirection by Theo and co. The signings of Dejesus and Johnson, for instance, would not be typical of a club undergoing a full rebuild and punting the next season. However, they were necessary to plant some doubt in the (admittedly dumber of the) GM's minds in order to maximize Marshall's value in a trade.

 

Now I fully expect us to do something strange that breaks the rebuild mode again (sign Kuroda for a 2-3 year incentive-laden deal, for instance) before we dump Garza for a king's ransom. And I'd be just fine with that.

 

It wouldn't make much sense to commit 5 mil in payroll for next year just to get slightly better prospects in this deal. We could have spent that money in Latin America and come out ahead for it.

 

Theo has said it before... it's just about trying to acquire assets. DeJesus is a good player who signed for cheap. Depending on what happens through the rest of this offseason and the next one, DeJesus may be able to contribute to a contending Cubs team in years 2 & 3 of his contract... failing that, he may very well be worth a small package of interesting prospects to a contending team.

[pitchcs]

:good:

 

Liked this trade as Marshall for Wood, now I REALLY like.

[javy knows my name]

I really love this trade, and I think this might be the fruits of some careful misdirection by Theo and co. The signings of Dejesus and Johnson, for instance, would not be typical of a club undergoing a full rebuild and punting the next season. However, they were necessary to plant some doubt in the (admittedly dumber of the) GM's minds in order to maximize Marshall's value in a trade.

 

Now I fully expect us to do something strange that breaks the rebuild mode again (sign Kuroda for a 2-3 year incentive-laden deal, for instance) before we dump Garza for a king's ransom. And I'd be just fine with that.

 

It wouldn't make much sense to commit 5 mil in payroll for next year just to get slightly better prospects in this deal. We could have spent that money in Latin America and come out ahead for it.

 

Theo has said it before... it's just about trying to acquire assets. DeJesus is a good player who signed for cheap. Depending on what happens through the rest of this offseason and the next one, DeJesus may be able to contribute to a contending Cubs team in years 2 & 3 of his contract... failing that, he may very well be worth a small package of interesting prospects to a contending team.

 

I suppose you're right, but I should have been more clear. Knowing that DeJesus was signed for 2 years, I was implying that it was a move looking to 2013 but on the surface, could be looked at as a cheap way to save face next year (aka, why would we trade Marshall/Garza/Soto for anything less than a good deal?). He most certainly is a cheap and useful asset, so I didn't want it as simplistic as "Cubs spent 4-5 mil extra to get a guy from the Reds' top 10 rather than top 25," but rather that Cubs signed a useful player in a dubious offseason to muddy the waters a bit and maximize trade value for guys who don't figure to be with us after 2012.

 

I've now officially given this too much thought.

[Jake]

I know he came into camp overweight last season,...

 

That is actually a huge misconception. There was an article published last January saying that someone in the front office was pissed off about his weight, and it grew from there. He was not heavier than he should have been coming into camp. The real issue was he wasn't in top shape, emphasis on the top. He wasn't out of shape per se, just not in as good of shape as he should have been. Those who saw him at Piratefest last week say he looks great, though.

 

Fingers are crossed, but breath is not being held.

[Elrhino]

Seems like we got a pretty good haul for Marshall, but quite frankly we should have gotten a good haul for Marshall. He's a valuable player, the Cubs had plenty of leverage and they likely had no shortage of suitors and bids. They should get an exceptional deal for Garza as well. If you're tanking 2012, you better get a good haul in return.

[Yeti]

Yeah, but our strategy of overpaying for draft picks (See Josh Bell, Stetson Allie) was removed from the CBA, so our time of being good is probably over.

 

sorry Jake, but this statement really cracked me up

[javy knows my name]

Yeah, but our strategy of overpaying for draft picks (See Josh Bell, Stetson Allie) was removed from the CBA, so our time of being good is probably over.

 

sorry Jake, but this statement really cracked me up

 

The halcyon days of finishing 15 games out of first are OVER

[toonsterwu]

I really love this trade, and I think this might be the fruits of some careful misdirection by Theo and co. The signings of Dejesus and Johnson, for instance, would not be typical of a club undergoing a full rebuild and punting the next season. However, they were necessary to plant some doubt in the (admittedly dumber of the) GM's minds in order to maximize Marshall's value in a trade.

 

Now I fully expect us to do something strange that breaks the rebuild mode again (sign Kuroda for a 2-3 year incentive-laden deal, for instance) before we dump Garza for a king's ransom. And I'd be just fine with that.

 

I wouldn't be stunned if the Cubs made a Kuroda type signing, for say, 1-2 years, but honestly, that could fit as much in the rebuild mode as anything. Get a veteran to chew up some innings, and then see if you can spin them off at the deadline if they are pitching well enough to net solid assets.

[Guest]

Yeah, but our strategy of overpaying for draft picks (See Josh Bell, Stetson Allie) was removed from the CBA, so our time of being good is probably over.

 

To be fair, this hurts the Cubs a ton too.

[OleMissCub]

here's to hoping Torreys is the next Joe Morgan.

[Little Slide Rooter]

here's to hoping Torreys is the next Joe Morgan.

 

Then here's to hoping that he finds something to do other than broadcasting when his playing days are over.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Jake he was a reliever we had for one more year. Getting any kind of value back for him is a win. Why is that so hard to figure out? Marshall is more valuable to a good team, we aren't a good team. Wood will be in our rotation, this makes us better. Plus we got two lottery tickets. One of which had a great year as an eighteen year old in the Midwest league.

 

Pretty much. We sold high and got the better end of the deal but it's not exactly something that's going to be a franchise changer or even worth gloating about. I guess we're just not used to selling high on players.